Sam, Interrupted (511)

[iolanda]

-Liked Martin, but what about how they left him?! I know he was in the mental hospital for good reason, but isn't he still going to get blamed for attacking Wendy? Shouldn't they have gotten him out, too?

Martin couldn't be blamed for attacking Wendy. The nurse was already working on her, so she must have had used the stinger. Martin was unable to hurt Wendy in that way. So if he tells that he had to distract the warden, so that Eddie aka Dean could go after the nurse (and there was no time for explanations), they have to believe him. The evidence was in the other room, with a dead nurse, a weird chest wound and an even weirder stinger, fitting to Wendys and the guy in the pathology's wounds, broken from her wrist.

At the episode: I liked it a great deal, maybe because I wasn't really expecting that the story with Lucifer and Death would be followed here. Supernatural really seldom does that. The episode had something of everything.
The funny parts like Pudding (I admit that this was OTT, but it cracks me up anyway), the elephant books, Sam being kite-high pinching Deans nose and in Martins room when Martin says "the monster!".
Dean vs. therapist was also great. I personally don't believe that he made her up, I think that only the third encounter was imaginary, because on the first day (when he met her) everything was still OK and the delusions started on day two, and I think in this very scene when Dean is watching the mirror and sees the Wraith. It is also the day when Sammy is unable to control his anger for the first time. So, concerning that Deans therapy session was for real, we learned a lot of disturbing facts about the guy. No sleep and still that lot of alcohol? Doesn't sound like the nightmares are gone.

The things set loose by the nurse was the anger in Sammy and Deans fear of being unable to trust the thing he is seeing. This makes his breakdown in the end understandable, because he learns that he can't trust himself anymore. I didn't find this over the top. What a little disturbing was, was that delusional Dean was so funny. Didn't really fit to the seriousness of what was going on, but, well...

The end of course prepared a plothole. I don't really think that we won't see the stuff the boys had to leave behind any more (like their clothes and Sams watch).

[starg8fans]

Love all the long discussion posts, but they're a b!tch to multi-quote, so here are my thoughts on your thoughts. (Hope I can remember most of it.)

As Iolanda said, Spn rarely does the expected, so I wasn't surprised that this episode didn't pick up after Death rising. And Sam's comment in the beginning about them taking a time out to deal with Ellen's and Jo's death, as well as his revelation about the rage inside him at the end tied this one in with 5.10 enough for me.

I also didn't think that Dean's collapse was OTT. It has been mentioned several times already that Dean is riddled with insecurity, and since the Wraith just multiplied their inner flaws, this would turn Dean into this panicked state of fear in the way they showed - just as the anger turned into all-out rage for Sam.

Great point about the doctor being real at first, Iolanda. When I re-watched the episode, I wondered that Dean's projection would go as far as seeing her in the mirror. Also, I thought her make-up was more 'extreme' in the scene when she challenged him about the first seal etc, so I'm going with the assumption that this is the first time that Dean was imagining her there.

I also think that the fact that the Wraith couldn't retract the rest of the stinger before it died should get Martin off the hook. And now that it's not messing with his mind anymore, he may become 'normal' again. I wouldn't surprise me if this mysterious business in Albuquerque will addressed again later this season, and if Martin showed up again.

I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

[LtColCarter]

Love all the long discussion posts, but they're a b!tch to multi-quote, so here are my thoughts on your thoughts. (Hope I can remember most of it.)

As Iolanda said, Spn rarely does the expected, so I wasn't surprised that this episode didn't pick up after Death rising. And Sam's comment in the beginning about them taking a time out to deal with Ellen's and Jo's death, as well as his revelation about the rage inside him at the end tied this one in with 5.10 enough for me.

I also didn't think that Dean's collapse was OTT. It has been mentioned several times already that Dean is riddled with insecurity, and since the Wraith just multiplied their inner flaws, this would turn Dean into this panicked state of fear in the way they showed - just as the anger turned into all-out rage for Sam.

Great point about the doctor being real at first, Iolanda. When I re-watched the episode, I wondered that Dean's projection would go as far as seeing her in the mirror. Also, I thought her make-up was more 'extreme' in the scene when she challenged him about the first seal etc, so I'm going with the assumption that this is the first time that Dean was imagining her there.

I also think that the fact that the Wraith couldn't retract the rest of the stinger before it died should get Martin off the hook. And now that it's not messing with his mind anymore, he may become 'normal' again. I wouldn't surprise me if this mysterious business in Albuquerque will addressed again later this season, and if Martin showed up again.

I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

Good point!

I like all of the dicussion too!

[Crichiel]

I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

I agree, great point! I hadn't thought of this before, but it is absolutely true.

[the fifth man]

Actually, "Swap Meat" doesn't look as good as this one was. But, this show can surprise you.

[marielabbott]

-More long-term continuity: I like High-Sam saying that Dean hasn't been the same since returning from hell, and maybe even before that. Very true. Also nice to hear him say he loves him, even if he is stoned when he says it!

Was that the first time we heard one of the brothers actually say the L word to the other? They say it all the time non-verbally, but I can't recall it ever being spoken. If so, I do think that was kind of wasted. I had a hazy picture of them exchanging "I love yous" right before dying together to save the world.

I enjoyed the ep, the delving a little into the psyches of the boys, and the funny bits. I liked Martin (I've enjoyed some of Jon Gries' roles). I'm curious as to what did happen to him...maybe it's a loose end that will unexpectedly come up in a future ep? You never know with SPN what small detail will become important later.

[starg8fans]

Was that the first time we heard one of the brothers actually say the L word to the other? They say it all the time non-verbally, but I can't recall it ever being spoken. If so, I do think that was kind of wasted. I had a hazy picture of them exchanging "I love yous" right before dying together to save the world.

Good question. It will require some research, but think you're right, it was the first time. I don't know about 'wasted', though. Thiese are the Winchesters after all, and it probably takes one to by stoned out of his mind to be able to say it.

I enjoyed the ep, the delving a little into the psyches of the boys, and the funny bits. I liked Martin (I've enjoyed some of Jon Gries' roles). I'm curious as to what did happen to him...maybe it's a loose end that will unexpectedly come up in a future ep? You never know with SPN what small detail will become important later.

I really enjoyed Martin's character and performance too. I hope we'll find out a bit more about him and whatever happened in Albuquerque.

[MusicalMorphine]

Watched this ep today, I'm too tired to quote write now so I'll just say a few thoughts lol.

Overall I liked the episode. It was weird hearing them say straight off what they were doing, no cover-ups, no fake badges, just the truth. I know it was to get them into the facility because no-one would believe them, but I almost felt like it was refreshing for them to be straight and not have to lie about anything.

I agree that Dean's fear may have been slightly overdone but it was interesting to see again.

I think everyone has noticed Sam's rage for a while, and at the end I have to admit I did kind of go "oh not again" and I think Dean may have had that thought too.

I have to admit, I skipped over very last bit when Sam was drugged because I kind of knew it was coming and I get weird and uncomfortable when they get mushy LOL, even though I know Sam was "under the influence".

Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?

I'm sure there's more I could say but I'm too tired to think right now so I'll come back later lol.

[LtColCarter]

Actually, "Swap Meat" doesn't look as good as this one was. But, this show can surprise you.

It has surprised me many times!

[LizzieAnne]

I've only just re-watched the ep to see if my first opinion changed. Maybe it has a little but it’s not going to go down as one of my favourites. Not that it was bad because I thought there was a pretty reasonable balance between the darker elements and the humour.

On the positive side:
The acting of Jared and Jensen is always good but in this I thought it was great and that for me saved the day.
The fun bits with Dean dropping his pants and drugged Sam tweaking Dean’s nose.
I was pleased that the male doc turned out to be a good guy and I loved the touching scene with Sam apologising to him. For me that showed how Sam hasn't lost any of his humanity and is still the sensitive soul he always has been despite all that’s happened to him.
The chat that Dean had with ‘the imaginary Doc’ about his issues. (I see that some people here think she was real in the beginning and then she became imaginary, but I don't think so. No one intereacted with her except Dean...and when the male doc passed them he only spoke to Dean ..and didn't look at her. Wouldn't the writers have made it more obvious if one was real and the other not? I'll have to re-watch to make really sure...) Although, for me, before we knew the Doc wasn't real, I liked it more, then finding out she was from his own subconscious kind of changed it for me because you then know that he's having a discussion with himself and that 'she' can only ask questions that he can handle and easily respond to.

And on the negative:
It kind of felt that the whole ep was a lot of set pieces forced into the standard horror theme of the creepy psychiatric hospital. So over done. In fact it reminded me of the Folsom Prison and Yellow Fever eps put together, with the writers thinking how great those eps were and deciding to cobble together something similar and hoped it would all come out in the wash.
Dean becoming a quivering wreck again....just like in Yellow Fever .
Putting themselves into an institution again where they have no control over the situation...they've done that already and found it difficult. Why didn't they become docs or cleaners?
Sam losing control when his subconscious had Dean blaming him again and everyone calling him a freak.

For me the story didn’t flow or really mean much. It seemed that the whole thing was staged to lead up to the last few minutes that had Sam talking about his anger issues and Dean saying they had to bury their feelings deep and get on with it. Well yeah…..I know that already!!! I just felt that the writers were bashing me over the head with the obvious. It's as if Sam had suddenly noticed that he was tall or Dean noticing that he was a flirt!.

Anyhow I suppose I was expecting more, especially after the scenes in the last ep with the big deal of Dean shooting Lucifer and Lucifer telling Sam that the pent up rage in him was going to be useful. Plus the whole issue of Ellen and Jo dying which, although was mentioned, was glossed over. Why didn’t they mention The Colt or the rising of Death …… all huge events in the story and in their lives.

Overall I was disappointed. Maybe I’ve started to expect too much.

I'll have to check out who wrote that ep...it'll be interesting to see who it was.

Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?
lol.

It crossed my mind as well..I suppose he was under the influence of the Wraith at that point...but if he wasn't ..when did he turn into the guy whose totally OK with cutting off the top of someone's head

[starg8fans]

Overall I liked the episode. It was weird hearing them say straight off what they were doing, no cover-ups, no fake badges, just the truth. I know it was to get them into the facility because no-one would believe them, but I almost felt like it was refreshing for them to be straight and not have to lie about anything.

Actually, that seems to be the theme now - (slight 5.12 spoiler)

Spoiler:

they did the same thing with their former babysitter's daughter at the beginning of Swap Meat.

Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?

It crossed my mind as well..I suppose he was under the influence of the Wraith at that point...but if he wasn't ..when did he turn into the guy whose totally OK with cutting off the top of someone's head

Well, the guy was dead anyway, so how would it hurt him? I wasn't that surprised, after all it was Sam who went back to the corpse in Fallen Idols and cut it open to find those nuts or seeds that finally told them what they were dealing with. In a way it's just another kind of research. I was more suprised that Dean was so squeamish about it.

I was pleased that the male doc turned out to be a good guy and I loved the touching scene with Sam apologising to him. For me that showed how Sam hasn't lost any of his humanity and is still the sensitive soul he always has been despite all that’s happened to him.

Yeah, the doc as the bad guy would have been too obvious. And the scene with Sam apologizing was a nice bit of character continuity.

The chat that Dean had with ‘the imaginary Doc’ about his issues. (I see that some people here think she was real in the beginning and then she became imaginary, but I don't think so. No one intereacted with her except Dean...and when the male doc passed them he only spoke to Dean ..and didn't look at her. Wouldn't the writers have made it more obvious if one was real and the other not? I'll have to re-watch to make really sure...) Although, for me, before we knew the Doc wasn't real, I liked it more, then finding out she was from his own subconscious kind of changed it for me because you then know that he's having a discussion with himself and that 'she' can only ask questions that he can handle and easily respond to.

I thought earlier that she was real, but I'm not so sure now after a re-watch. Still, I don't think that she only gave him questions that were easy to respond to, at least not off camera. Dean was visibly shaken after having to discuss his 'daddy issues' with her ("I was theraped." LOL) If she was imaginary, does that mean that he wants to explore that side of himself?

It kind of felt that the whole ep was a lot of set pieces forced into the standard horror theme of the creepy psychiatric hospital. So over done. In fact it reminded me of the Folsom Prison and Yellow Fever eps put together, with the writers thinking how great those eps were and deciding to cobble together something similar and hoped it would all come out in the wash.
Putting themselves into an institution again where they have no control over the situation...they've done that already and found it difficult. Why didn't they become docs or cleaners?

I don't think it was intentional. But with almost 100 eps under their bellies, we are bound to revisit certain scenarios again. If they had gone in as a doc and a janitor, it would have been like After School Special.

For me the story didn’t flow or really mean much. It seemed that the whole thing was staged to lead up to the last few minutes that had Sam talking about his anger issues and Dean saying they had to bury their feelings deep and get on with it. Well yeah…..I know that already!!! I just felt that the writers were bashing me over the head with the obvious. It's as if Sam had suddenly noticed that he was tall or Dean noticing that he was a flirt!.

Of course it would be obvious to you, but maybe not to the many casual viewers out there. I believe the fact that they dragged Sam's rage front and center means that it will play a major part later in the season.

Anyhow I suppose I was expecting more, especially after the scenes in the last ep with the big deal of Dean shooting Lucifer and Lucifer telling Sam that the pent up rage in him was going to be useful. Plus the whole issue of Ellen and Jo dying which, although was mentioned, was glossed over. Why didn’t they mention The Colt or the rising of Death …… all huge events in the story and in their lives.

I was wondering about that as well. But on the other hand, we have ten episodes left, how can you keep the Apocalyptic endgame going at a high energy level for so long? I expect this season to be a kind of puzzle. Each of these more or less stand alone episodes could provide a small bit of information that will come together in the end to explain what's gonna happen (or not happen) and why.

[LizzieAnne]

Well, the guy was dead anyway, so how would it hurt him? I wasn't that surprised, after all it was Sam who went back to the corpse in Fallen Idols and cut it open to find those nuts or seeds that finally told them what they were dealing with. In a way it's just another kind of research. I was more suprised that Dean was so squeamish about it.

Well I hardly thought Sam would cut the top of someone's head off while they're still alive...
He just seemed to be a little too unaffected. I just hope his character is kept consistent.

I thought earlier that she was real, but I'm not so sure now after a re-watch. Still, I don't think that she only gave him questions that were easy to respond to, at least not off camera. Dean was visibly shaken after having to discuss his 'daddy issues' with her ("I was theraped." LOL) If she was imaginary, does that mean that he wants to explore that side of himself?

I think you're right..despite his protests he does want to understand himself..or at least his subconscious is itching to have it's say.

I don't think it was intentional. But with almost 100 eps under their bellies, we are bound to revisit certain scenarios again. If they had gone in as a doc and a janitor, it would have been like After School Special.

I don't mind them repeating the scenarios...I just want them to pick the ones which are most realistic. I have no problem with them being FBI agents over and over or any other aliases they have regularly done. They are both very smart guys and for once it didn't seem a very smart thing to do.

Of course it would be obvious to you, but maybe not to the many casual viewers out there. I believe the fact that they dragged Sam's rage front and center means that it will play a major part later in the season.

Er..wow I hardly know how to respond to that! If I thought the eps were now going to to be made with the casual viewer in mind and not the loyal fan base, I would be right royally p!ssed annoyed I can tell you. I hope TPTB haven't developed that attitude.
There are loads of examples of Sam's rage already, not least at the end of the previous ep.
Lucifer made a bit deal of it. "That's good Sam, you keep that fire in your belly..all that pent up rage...I'm going to need it!"

I was wondering about that as well. But on the other hand, we have ten episodes left, how can you keep the Apocalyptic endgame going at a high energy level for so long? I expect this season to be a kind of puzzle. Each of these more or less stand alone episodes could provide a small bit of information that will come together in the end to explain what's gonna happen (or not happen) and why.

I agree ..I've said before I don't have any problem with stand alone eps..I'm quite happy with little snippets of the story arc moving things along. I just felt the ending of the previous ep and the beginning of this one didn't have any connection. I know it's happened before in the past with eps but with all that's happening now... it's all so important, monumental even... that for Sam and Dean to check themselves into an institution and then hardly mentioned what had happened to them didn't seem right to me.