'Time' (108) General Discussion

[janus4ever]

s01xE08 was a real StarGate adventure , I am happy with that.

[Vladius]

Boring. I never liked reset-button episodes in any show so of course I wasn't going to like this one. Reset episodes makes me automatically press the fast forward button (tivo), something that I usually never do. Found the whole sickness -> cure story weak and undeveloped. Eli did some decent actor work. Chloe died - yay. Reset button resurrected Chloe, noo. No stupid communication stones, yay. No superfluous romantic bull****, yay. It was better than last weeks extremely weak episode. I just didn't find the overarching story compelling because of the aforementioned reset bull****.

Did the episode develop the characters? No.
Did it develop the story? No.
Was the tone of the episode different? A bit.
Was I ever bored? Yes, but not as much as last week.
Did I fast-forward? Yup, a few times.
Annoying characters? Yes, Chloe.
Aliens? I guess, those worm things (Gual'd embryos gone mad).
Gate usage? Yup.

4.5/10.

It's not a reset button. If you want to call it a reset button, fine, but it's a very, very costly reset button.

Yes, it developed the characters.
Yes, it developed the story.

[Lightning Ducj]

It's not a reset button. If you want to call it a reset button, fine, but it's a very, very costly reset button.

Actually, almost every TV episode is a reset button.

At the end of the episode, everything's always right back to normal."
— Fry, Futurama

SG:U, being more serial in nature, is tending to avoid some of that phenomenon. Also, the presence of the two kinos in the final loop means that everything recorded will carry forward and influence the characters

[Lord Hurin]

SG:U, being more serial in nature, is tending to avoid some of that phenomenon. Also, the presence of the two kinos in the final loop means that everything recorded will carry forward and influence the characters

Aye, and they won't run into the hassle of having to pay out a major settlement for termination of an actor's contract.

[majatt]

Nothing is preventing it from being in the third timeline also.

? What do you mean there is nothing preventing it? It is on the ship in the second timeline. It went into timeline #2 and never left so how would it enter timeline #3?

[Arga]

First of all: I liked this episode a lot. It was around 10 times better than "Earth" . I was kinda disappointed about the ending,but only because I wanted to see more and that it was bad the episode was over. I have now watched the episode 2 times and I loved that they did`nt use the stones. I "hate" the communication stones,but I do understand why the writers have them in the show. Still I have to say that I hope they goes "bye bye" as soon as possible. The earth scenes are not bad,but they take away a bit of the actual story which I feel is the about Destiny itself.

And now over to something completely different: Why why why does people that did`nt like any episodes and say that every episode is worse than the ones before keep on watching it? Nobody is forcing the show on anyone? Someone has to explain this very good for me,please.
I get the feeling that people that thinks every episode is a new low for the series are only watching it to come here and complain,and by all means,everyone is free to comment whatever they like,but I can not understand why some watch it if they hate it. It has been 8 episodes now...how many episodes will people watch and hate before understanding that there are a lot of other tv-channels to switch to if its so painful to watch?

Well,enough of my complaining. I dont like to write this complaining,but I really cant understand this. Maybe I`m just dumb.

Episode: 8 "Time" was a 9/10 ,that is almost the best I ever give since I always want it to be something even better. The potential of SGU is for me growing from episode to episode. With the exception of "Earth" there has not been one episode under 7/10 for me.

Goddag!
I'll try to answer the question about why some people continue watching SGU even if they're disappointed by it so far.

I think it's due to faithfulness and hope.
Many people have been fans of Stargate for 10 to 15 years. So it makes Stargate very much part of our life, and it has a very special place in our heart. It's like we saw a child being born and grow up.
As parents, we hope to see it mature in a way we approve.

If SGU was a new series, completely unrelated to the Stargate franchise, maybe some people wouldn't care so much, and just ignore it and watch something else. But IT'S STARGATE for crying out loud. That's why it has such an impact. We're not disappointed with things we don't care about, we're only disappointed with things that we care about.

I'm not discussing about what's good or bad in SGU, but why it matters so much for a lot of fans. We can't move on and stop watching it, because : it's "our show", the one we loved for more than a decade. (at least the one developped by Jonathan Glassner & Brad Wright, until Robert Cooper ugraded to exec...) We continue watching because we can't abandon a concept that we followed for such a long time, and we keep hope that they'll stop the silly melodrama between characters and come back to interesting stories about discovery of life at the end of the universe, solve interesting mysteries, learn interesting facts about the Ancients, see some interesting characters entertain us...
Yes, because it's part of Stargate, we'll watch it in spite of the dizzyness caused by this "artistic" way of shooting.
And also because NOT EVERYTHING is negative in SGU.
I mean, if we skip the few scenes that we don't like, there are some good things left. Personnally I like very much Rush's character.
But on a forum, it's always more tempting to write down what's bothering us than we we enjoyed...

[Commander Zelix]

Soon the show episodes will last only about 15min54sec. Just long enough to present the problem and expose the solution.

For example the episode "Water" could have been like this instead:

Water - Rush:"Theres the desert alien on the ship TJ. It takes our water." TJ:"Ok, guys, I got an idea. I'm going to put water in a bucket, trap the aliens in it and throw the aliens on the ice planet". Dramatic cut. End credit.


Episode 23: Aliens have taken over the Destiny. Greer and TJ are squalling in the air vent. TJ to Greer:"I'm going to release a sedative gaz in the air vent. You try to take over the apple room and push the button to open the ventilation system. Now put on this mask". Dramatic cut. End credit.



Water part2 -
Young:"Ok, we're going to go on this planet,cut ice block with this plasma cutter and use the kino sledge made by Eli to transport it."
Scott:" What are you going to do if, lets say, I fall into a hole"
Young:"I will never give up, Scott. Thats for sure. I will hang on to the rope I would have sent you as if my life was depending on it. We never know another quake could get you unstuck"
Scott:"Oh, ok, just wanted to be sure. You never know. Lets go!" Dramatic cut. End credit

[harakiri]

Arga:
Thanks for the answer,and I understand this very well. Easy to give something that we like a second chance and even more than a second. But anyway the once that hate it so much that they want it to be cancelled or believe since they dont like it every people that does like it is not as good fans as they them self are,and this is disturbing actually. For me,it does not matter people actual see me less as a fan of SG1/SGA ("the true Stargate"),I loved it. It`s a good answer you gave me,and it was what I thought,but its still strange how its possible to hate it in the grade some do and still watch it.

And by the way: I too am one of those that would like to see less drama and more exploring,but that (like others) I hope and believe will be better in future. And enemies is needed,or at least meeting others in space or on other planets. So... I am not without complaints,but I see so much Stargate in this that I enjoy it so far,with an exception of "Earth" I think every episode has been better than the one before. Much of the "drama stones" I would like to go away.

[Phantom6]

By far the most disappointing episode yet.

I'm not saying it was a bad episode. In fact this episode had the best writing of any episode of SGU yet. We actually learn something about the characters (Eli's mom has HIV, Rush and Young like Butch Cassidy), we get nice character development, and above all we actually get an interesting plot. The humor is well dispersed (Rush actually makes a joke) and there's a lot of suspense in the Kino scenes. Lt. James died and I was shocked, I was surprised the writers had the balls to kill of a recurring character so early. Everything was going so well for the first 50 minutes, I was just about to call this the greatest episode of SGU yet.

And then Chloe died, and I knew this episode was just a farce. At that point I knew the reset button was coming and any tension left in the episode was utterly destroyed. I was about to yell at the TV screen: "How could you give me such a great hour of television and then pull a stupid cliche on it at the last second?" I'm probably being a bit harsh, but seriously, this is something you would expect out of your average Star Trek: Voyager episode (and I like STV).

So this episode wasn't disappointing for any of the reasons the previous episodes were. This episode improved greatly on many aspects of the show, but the final minutes just absolutely ruined it.

Not only that but the Chloe haters get to see her die, what like three times?

[Eternal Density]

Yeah, me too! OMG if this show could be that fantastic as SG-1-s Emancipation was, I'd be the happiest person in the world. Or in Brief Candle when O'Neill boinked that woman, got old, and died, and there was no stupid last minute healing for him. Or when Daniel Jackson died, and we learned that when they're dead, they're dead.

Hahahha, epic snark

Ok so first everybody dies pretty much off camera, or in the background (side note - I love it when filmmakers do this because it looks so much more realistic), then we find out that it doesn't matter because it was a previous timeline.

Now given that this is an edgier show with a larger cast that we KNOW are not all going to survive meant that when Vanessa James (I think that's her name - Scott's closet friend) died I thought that she may have died for real. Then when Chloe died the second time I began to have doubts. When Young and Greer died it was obvious that we were in for another loop. Kind of like in "Absolute Power" when the plot suddenly jumps forward 5 years it take's all the drama out of any subsequent character upheavals because you know it's going to be inconsequential.

So, when did you realise that no-one was really going to die? And no, you can't say you knew before they episode because of its title and the fact that it obviously contained time travel. That on its own doesn't rule it out.

Some good points in there.
I actually realised about the same point as you. I very much feared than Vanessa James might be gone for good and I still had some doubts when Chloe died. It was a relief in a way when Young and Greer kicked it and I knew everyone would turn out okay

I'm no expert but if scotts kino goes back will rushs kino still be there?
Discuss.

I think if scotts kino went back to before rushs then we would have two.
If it arrived after we would have one.
Does anyone study quantum physics?

I don't think quantum physics quite relates. But I think you're right about the difference between Kino 2 arriving before or after Kino 1. Though I suppose that depending on your interpretation of timelines you could potentially justify having both Kinos in the final timeline regardless of the order of arrival.

It's not a reset button. If you want to call it a reset button, fine, but it's a very, very costly reset button.

Yes, it developed the characters.
Yes, it developed the story.

Yep and did a great job of it too

? What do you mean there is nothing preventing it? It is on the ship in the second timeline. It went into timeline #2 and never left so how would it enter timeline #3?

Your mistake is seeing the 'timelines' as separate entities. Let's say that Kino 1 was thrown through the wormhole in timeline 1 and showed up in timeline 2 a year ago, thus changing the course of events from that point onward. Then in timeline 2, Kino 2 is thrown through the wormhole and appears maybe half a year ago (I'm making up these dates for convenience). This timeline 3 differs from timeline 2 staring with the appearance of Kino 2, 6 months ago. That has no effect on the appearance of Kino 1 a year ago.

Not only that but the Chloe haters get to see her die, what like three times?

I suppose on the grand scale of things, two is like three.

[Mortock42]

Even if everyone doesn't agree on the accuracy of the time-travel events or sequence and how the differing time lines interact with each other, I think we all have to agree that time-travel is a necessary component of the sci-fi genre. Even if a consensus can't be reached on how time-travel really works, it is still cool to wonder how it might.

Personally? I think the only show so far that has come closest to getting it right is 12 Monkeys...but that is just me.

Also, I don't know if it has been discussed yet, but the fact the stargate was able to make a connection while the solar flare was going on means (most likely) that the ancients probably had a few instances of accidental time-travel through the gate and incorporated a program in the DHD's of later versions of the gate to prevent such occurances (SG1, 1969). Gotta wonder how the ancients dealt with accidental time travel? The accidental discovery of time-travel probably compelled some of their scientists to study it and eventually make the time-travelling puddle jumper.

It's funny how so many discoveries arose from accidents in real life; Microwave ovens, artificial sweetener, silly-putty, the slinky, penecillin, etc. Just think where we would be if accidents didnt happen?

[Eternal Density]

It's funny how so many discoveries arose from accidents in real life; Microwave ovens, artificial sweetener, silly-putty, the slinky, penecillin, etc. Just think where we would be if accidents didnt happen?

Some would have us believe that life, the universe, and everything wouldn't exist if accidents didn't happen.

[Girlbot]

Since I am always, deliberately totally unspoiled when it comes to the eps. I loved this one. The surprises that came along kept my interest. I had no idea they were watching a kino record, and was really delighted that it was written in such a manner that it was a complete shock to see it unfold. I couldn't wait to see what was going to happen next.. And I loved the way they ended it.......fade to black.........cool.

[Aeyame]

Compared to the rest of the other SGU episodes this one is the best so far, in my opinion. Compared to my idea of a Stargate episode it was pretty good. A few things did upset me though. I didn't like how 3/4 of the episode was shot through the kino, it was very annoying. It was interesting touch, but not something I'd like to see repeated often. Something else was that Eli basically said he loved Chloe, and I don't like her at all. She makes me mad because she's sleeping with Scott, but always flirting with Eli. What did make me really mad was Chloe not staying dead. (I want her dead, just sharing my opinion). But I really liked the character interactions, and how it was a little less constant space drama. I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, mostly because for the first time since a few episode before SGA ended, I got my Stargate fix. After all I can only watch 3 movies, the pilot, and 15 seasons so many times till you crave something new.

[missmobius]

Goddag!
I'll try to answer the question about why some people continue watching SGU even if they're disappointed by it so far.

I think it's due to faithfulness and hope.
Many people have been fans of Stargate for 10 to 15 years. So it makes Stargate very much part of our life, and it has a very special place in our heart. It's like we saw a child being born and grow up.
As parents, we hope to see it mature in a way we approve.

If SGU was a new series, completely unrelated to the Stargate franchise, maybe some people wouldn't care so much, and just ignore it and watch something else. But IT'S STARGATE for crying out loud. That's why it has such an impact. We're not disappointed with things we don't care about, we're only disappointed with things that we care about.

I'm not discussing about what's good or bad in SGU, but why it matters so much for a lot of fans. We can't move on and stop watching it, because : it's "our show", the one we loved for more than a decade. (at least the one developped by Jonathan Glassner & Brad Wright, until Robert Cooper ugraded to exec...) We continue watching because we can't abandon a concept that we followed for such a long time, and we keep hope that they'll stop the silly melodrama between characters and come back to interesting stories about discovery of life at the end of the universe, solve interesting mysteries, learn interesting facts about the Ancients, see some interesting characters entertain us...
Yes, because it's part of Stargate, we'll watch it in spite of the dizzyness caused by this "artistic" way of shooting.
And also because NOT EVERYTHING is negative in SGU.
I mean, if we skip the few scenes that we don't like, there are some good things left. Personnally I like very much Rush's character.
But on a forum, it's always more tempting to write down what's bothering us than we we enjoyed...

Can I kiss you, you're post is brilliant!

[missmobius]

Arga:
Thanks for the answer,and I understand this very well. Easy to give something that we like a second chance and even more than a second. But anyway the once that hate it so much that they want it to be cancelled or believe since they dont like it every people that does like it is not as good fans as they them self are,and this is disturbing actually. For me,it does not matter people actual see me less as a fan of SG1/SGA ("the true Stargate"),I loved it. It`s a good answer you gave me,and it was what I thought,but its still strange how its possible to hate it in the grade some do and still watch it.

And by the way: I too am one of those that would like to see less drama and more exploring,but that (like others) I hope and believe will be better in future. And enemies is needed,or at least meeting others in space or on other planets. So... I am not without complaints,but I see so much Stargate in this that I enjoy it so far,with an exception of "Earth" I think every episode has been better than the one before. Much of the "drama stones" I would like to go away.

I have never seen a post on this site that said they wanted SGU cancelled.
OH and I love the STONES, seems it's the only way I'll see RDA

[missmobius]

Not only that but the Chloe haters get to see her die, what like three times?

yeah but you know she'll be back and so it does nothing more than infuriate me.

[Terra Atlantus]

Now I know why Greer said "You look ridiculous" to Eli

http://stargate.mgm.com/assets//Stil...108-0575xb.jpg

[majatt]

Your mistake is seeing the 'timelines' as separate entities. Let's say that Kino 1 was thrown through the wormhole in timeline 1 and showed up in timeline 2 a year ago, thus changing the course of events from that point onward. Then in timeline 2, Kino 2 is thrown through the wormhole and appears maybe half a year ago (I'm making up these dates for convenience). This timeline 3 differs from timeline 2 staring with the appearance of Kino 2, 6 months ago. That has no effect on the appearance of Kino 1 a year ago.

Timeline 1 (w/random dates)

• Nov 2nd 2009 - Kino 1 is tossed into Wormhole.
• January 1st 2009 - Kino 1 lands.

Timeline 2 (continuing the random dates)

• Nov 1st 2009 - Kino 1 is discovered.
• Nov 2nd 2009 - Kino 1 is NOT thrown into the past.

If discovering the Kino meant it was never thrown back then how could they discover it to not to throw it back? i.e. the event of discovering the Kino destroys the events which caused it to be there in the first place...a grand father paradox.

Put it this way:

• If Event/Object A (discovering Kino)
• Produces B (Scott is not bitten by creature)
• B produces C (A different version of the Kino being tossed into the wormhole).
• Then C alters A

How can C exist to alter A if B never happened because of C? A grand father paradox.

So the only logical explanation I could muster is a 2nd timeline that 'split' off from the first on when the Kino first landed and then a 3rd etc.

[Vey]

I honestly thought this was a pretty good episode regardless of the what ifs or not. It brought a new insight and quite frankly never would've guessed at the end of the show they're back at square one.

And I still think one of the female characters (making a reference since I assume no spoilers here) should just stay dead.... good riddance... at least temporarily