SGU Tech & Plot lacking

[rlr149]

too many do

vapor gets let off cos he's not been here long, you should know better

[thekillman]

he's not the only one

[s09119]

McKay or Carter would have been completely useless on the ship, considering the issue wasn't a genius intellect (which they already have), it was that they were, quite simply, locked out of the system. You could have Sam and Rodney there all day, and they wouldn't make any more progress than Rush did.

[Alterran1.]

McKay or Carter with assistance from Daniel would be able to get into the ships main systems.

Unless it was a hardware fault.

They could break ancient codes and have done so on many occasions particuarly McKay. Rush may not have experience overriding ancient security protocols.

The only possibility that they would not ba able to deal with a security system is if Destiny had an AI and then Daniel would probable be able to convince it even then.

[howwow]

Hi all.

Apologies if this has already been addressed and answered, regarding why didn't someone just use the Comms Stone and bring an expert like McKay or Carter onto Destiny.

Actually if you read the Season 1 list of episodes and some of the spoiler plot, in one of the future episode, the brief plot said they brought someone very expert in one area, didn't say what on board Destiny to help solve a problem. So it can be McKay, Carter or even McKay's sister!

Now that would be fun. Cheers

[s09119]

McKay or Carter with assistance from Daniel would be able to get into the ships main systems.

Unless it was a hardware fault.

They could break ancient codes and have done so on many occasions particuarly McKay. Rush may not have experience overriding ancient security protocols.

The only possibility that they would not ba able to deal with a security system is if Destiny had an AI and then Daniel would probable be able to convince it even then.

That's what made SG-1 and Atlantis so moronic near the end, though, that these humans could crack Ancient codes in about 5 seconds flat, completely reconfigure their computers in minutes, and repair things they couldn't in under an hour. I much prefer SGU's approach, where we can't just hit a button and instantly have everything working again.

[Alterran1.]

They wouldn't simple be able to get everything working. Due to problems being of a hardware nature.

It would just allow them into the main system where they can navigate the ship or at least find out what the ship is doing and why?

However it took Carter along time to get too that point. At Dakara she had the help of her father and Baal and apparently another Goa'uld scientist.

Overriding Ori systems was done only with Daniel giving her the necessary information.

[Less]

That's what made SG-1 and Atlantis so moronic near the end, though, that these humans could crack Ancient codes in about 5 seconds flat, completely reconfigure their computers in minutes, and repair things they couldn't in under an hour. I much prefer SGU's approach, where we can't just hit a button and instantly have everything working again.

I do agree that SG1 and SGA got kind of lazy about modern humans being so super-able. That's part of what I was looking for with SGU - less instant success, more complex challenges and some gritty tough decisions.

Just imagine:
They have the 5 communication stones, so they work out a schedule of shifts with 4 Earth smarties swapping with 4 Destiny flunkies to bring as much intelligence and "outside thinking" as they can. Bring a doctor to train the medic, bring life support specialists and power specialists, bring computer hackers and Ancient specialists. The military leader should have scheduled that right away.

And the new part is that even the geniuses can't solve it all. The solutions aren't technobabble. Sometimes we fail. Sometimes, a brave person has to risk it all.

That would've been AWESOME!

Instead...they haven't used all the stones, and half they time they use them to solve personal emotional issues - while others are in danger of dying. There just doesn't seem to be organized problem solving going on here. Rather mystifying.

[TonyB1972]

Get upset if you want, but is this still Stargate? Have McKay/Carter been able to do this? This is older tech, yet people can't navigate any of it. Given the canon/history of Stargate, I guarantee McKay would be flying that thing by the end of the first episode....Call it stupid, moronic, easy, or whatever.....but to ignore it and say I like it better alters the shows reality....thus creating a plot hole, which is the topic...


I am not saying the writers should of made it so, but I am saying they did. They already said the Ancients were their biggest mistake ever. They made something super grand, then they had to dumb it down with silly rules and non-interference...

Get upset that people state what happens in a show? It would be like me getting mad because on the show cops, people get arrested...I don't know why people seem to think you can just show up and arrest people on cops!


Mckay would of had panels open, and that little laptop hooked into it and know who the last ancient was that had ever been aboard the ship, before it launched....thats why the crystals were a bad idea...then you can just say these peoples skills are not at that level...or they have different areas ect...


If you don't think so, give me a real reason why, not that its stupid that they did it before or you thought it was too easy. I know people are jaded, but it doesn't change the history of the show and what they can and can't do. They should of atleast had the crystals reach a 'range' and stop working, then they would of had a reason there also.

[Darynlxm]

So, my thoughts.
1) The FTL, may or may not be faster than Hyperspace, it could have been so power hungry that it was deemed not worth it in typical ships, but hyperspace travel could consume a fraction of the power??? Thoughts???

That is a possibility. I think that no matter how you look at it, that would have been one of the few system that taxed the ships power, along with internal dampeners, life support and gravity.

Personally, I dont see life supposrt consuming nearly as much power as any of those systems, but whos knows, eh?

2) If the communication stones cause minds to swap between bodies, then why is it that Carter, Zlenka, McKay etc have not been brought onboard in mind swaps with some useless crew members to help solve some of these ships problems?

Im thankful that they havent been there, honestly. Far too many people [fans] rely on Sam / Daniel / Mckay to solve every effing problem in every series. And as others have stated, what good would they really do?

The Destiny's power was gone, there is no way you can MAKE more power by bringing in someone from earth, using zero resources.

And how do we know that you can even access the primary systems such as navigation from the crews current location? Im currently at work and have access to all the computers on my level of the building, but the level above me, I have zero access too, however, that level has access to all MY systems... couldnt that be the same predicament here?

I think the writers are doing well so far in keeping SGU on its own, while we have has Sam / O'Neill / Daniel (video) as part of the series, they were background characters and I like it that way; they're not relying on the fix of the minute from S/D/Z/O'n as we're used to.

3) SGU seems like a Battlestar Galactica remake so far (with Baltar basically being Stasiak), part of what intrigues us with SCI FI is the concepts & thinking through all this wonderful technology, not the drama and soap opera that is being created.

Personally, I disagree. I can see similarities, small ones, but BSG gave me an entirely different feeling when watching the SGU and that for me makes all the difference.

I also disagree that there is no drama in scifi, or that its not a primary aspect. sci fi seems more like how one reacts (drama) when faced with certain tasks or challenges resulting from fantastical technologies.

For instance, I absolutely loved Dr. Rush' having a total breakdown, it was a great scene which has come about because of his interaction with people and the failing technology on board the ship.

4) What good are stargates left on planets by seeder ships without DHDs, if inhabitants ever did occurr on a seeded planet, then how would they use the stargates and none are close enough to earth to dial?

There was a poster in another thread that mentioned that maybe the seeder ships dont seed millions of gates throughout a galaxy but select certain points IN a galaxy to deposit a few. When the Ancients arrived and started studying the planets, they could determine if it was appropriate to set up a gate network. Then, new gates with DHD's would be installed.

I think its a pretty good theory too...

5)The ships sent way out MUST have a recharge ability, suns, nebulas, or something and the ability to collect necessary resources to fabricate stargates automatically, but with only a few gates per massive FTL jump, what is the point of a stargate network of four gates too far to reach from Pegasus or Milky Way other than seeding new life in other galaxies?

...I think this is the entire point of the two episodes (Darkness and Light). This will hopefully show us how the ships would recharge themselves, even if it seems rather retarded to hurl yourself towards a sun like that.

6) The plot needs to speed up, less drama, more learning of secrets, tapping into a deeper ancients understanding and the roots of their technology and beliefs..

Personal preference I suppose, I think the speed is good. While Id like to see more of the Destiny and how she works, Im fine with being patient and learning it slowly.

[Darynlxm]

Mckay would of had panels open, and that little laptop hooked into it and know who the last ancient was that had ever been aboard the ship, before it launched....thats why the crystals were a bad idea...then you can just say these peoples skills are not at that level...or they have different areas ect...

Thats the whole damned problem with SGA, and its incredible that very few people see it. Mckay solved millenia old problems that a super-advanced race couldnt in minutes, or hours.

I can suspend disbelief only so much before I call bullsh*t on the story. I hope they keep Mckay and Sam as far away from this series as possible.

[Orion Antreas]

Oh, for the love of God. Why must people use the words, "plot holes" for every single thing?

And bringing in McKay and Carter? As much as I like both characters, no thanks. Rush is most likely just as intelligent as them and besides, it isn't a lack of intelligence to access the main systems. They would be useless and besides that, they have their own issues to attend to. You can't just snatch someone away from their current duties/priorities, which are important by the way, and give them another priority to attend to.

SGU is trying to be more realistic and they are portraying it as such. The show is much more realistic than SG-1 or SGA ever was. (Avoiding the typical, "ZOMG! I can crack this code in 2 minutes and save us all!!" Let SGU do something different, something called realism, or at least more of it.)

[Dain]

SGU is trying to be more realistic and they are portraying it as such. The show is much more realistic than SG-1 or SGA ever was. (Avoiding the typical, "ZOMG! I can crack this code in 2 minutes and save us all!!" Let SGU do something different, something called realism, or at least more of it.)

Opening a panel in the control room, hooking up your own computer and then switching some silly glowing crystals around isn't how problems should be solved in any situation, ever again. I see this brainbug as one of the major flaws of SGA and the later SG1.
Not every engine failure can be fixed by staring at a computer screen and then essentially repairing the software component of the damaged machines. If something is broke, more often than not you have to actually get to the failing machine itself and fix the damaged part.

So, I cannot express just how much I liked the pilot's solution to the exhausted CO2-scrubbers. Just for once the problem wasn't solved by writing an "improved CO2-scrubbing program", switching crystals around or re-routing power from other systems. Instead, we finally got an approach that would actually have been used by real people. Thanks.

1. That is a possibility. I think that no matter how you look at it, that would have been one of the few system that taxed the ships power, along with internal dampeners, life support and gravity.

Personally, I dont see life supposrt consuming nearly as much power as any of those systems, but whos knows, eh?

Curiously, while light and life support failed, the gravitation didn't (well, for obvious reasons, though it could be explained that the gravitation is provided by a system with an independent power source). However, it seems idiotic to design a ship AI that doesn't stop consuming its energy reserves until it is running so low that it cannot even provide light to its crew.
To me, that seems to be a major design flaw. But then, this plot element was obviously needed for the episode's desperate atmosphere.

Rush's insistence that the expedition somehow managed to waste enough energy in a few days for the ship's hundred thousand year long power supply to run out is a really questionable part of this episode. Life support for a hundred persons can be provided by a simple fuell-cell. I'm pretty certain Hyperdrive needs more power than that.
Additionally, the crew is locked out of every important system apart from the Stargate. You'd assume this included all systems that could drain a significant part of the remaining power.

The Destiny's power was gone, there is no way you can MAKE more power by bringing in someone from earth, using zero resources.

That's leading me right to my major gripe about this episode: The power is gone. The lights are out. A solution has to be found. What are the characters doing? They are staring at the computer software instead of trying to figure out which resources/fuel they need and whether what they need can be found anywhere on the ship.

Particularly jarring: Two experienced and presumably knowledgable scientists must confess to Young that they have no idea what to do at all and it takes Eli to remind them that they in reality still have some options left. With that attitude, they never could have passed their first practical lab experiment in university, let alone be accomplished scientists.
Things can go wrong all the time even in the most basic circumstances and if you fail to understand the problem by looking at your computer screen, you better get up and investigate the actual machinery that isn't working as it is supposed to be. Or you fail as an engineer or scientist.

Not even the self-proclaimed super-genius Rush even once actually went and searched for the power generators. Which are the things that are failing, presumably because they are out of fuel. Fuel that must be replaced if the power is ever supposed to come back on, which leads to the obvious and only solution of trying to refuel the ship somehow. Which wasn't addressed by any character in the episode at all, even though it was the single problem the crew was facing this week.
Now, presumably Rush tried to do this off-screen but found out that they are still locked out of the relevant engine room and have no access to it or its functions. However, this was never mentioned on-screen even though we had numerous scenes in which the problem had to be explained and was discussed between "experts". None of them thought of bringing up the obvious question and solution.

So, in conclusision: Despite expending an entire episode on the "the power is gone"-problem, we still don't even know on what power source the ship is running on, if the crew has access to any power generators or fuel storage system, and most importantly whether there is any chance to refuel the ship. In fact, we -and the crew - leave this episode completely without any new information on the nature of their power problem, making this episode essentially the first part of a two-parter since it thematically fails as a stand-alone.

Naturally, the power has to return to the ship eventually and since neither the Stargate nor the shuttle seem to be working right now, the solution likely will be provided by the Destiny itself in the next episode. The Destiny as a concept makes more sense if it is periodically self-refuelling anyway, instead of coincidently finally running out of power after a million years just when humans appear.
So, either the ship gathered its fuel during the atmospheric breaking or will use the sun in some way.

[Desert_Storm]

While Daniel and Rodney are my two favourite characters
The issue with either of them or Carter coming over to SGU
is that the characters in SGU resemble real people
SGA and SG1 all the characters are kind of idealised versions of people

I mean when was the last time you saw Mckay or Carter
get pissed off wen someone wouldnt do what they wanted

And yes rodney had his little spits but the emotions from him never seemed that angry or real, The characters never really got strong real human emotions.

The styles are so different that having any of the three come over the characters would have to have a decent change of personality to fit with the others

Not to mention why do you want them on the show?
Were meant to be learning about these characters how they deal with the situations not how superman[Mckay] wonderwoman[Carter] and Daniel the scientist/professor of every kind of historical civilisation in existance
Would deal with these ones problems

[Blistna]

[QUOTE=sg-theory;10714993]
2) If the communication stones cause minds to swap between bodies, then why is it that Carter, Zlenka, McKay etc have not been brought onboard in mind swaps with some useless crew members to help solve some of these ships problems?
3) SGU seems like a Battlestar Galactica remake so far (with Baltar basically being Stasiak), part of what intrigues us with SCI FI is the concepts & thinking through all this wonderful technology, not the drama and soap opera that is being created.
4) What good are stargates left on planets by seeder ships without DHDs, if inhabitants ever did occurr on a seeded planet, then how would they use the stargates and none are close enough to earth to dial?
/QUOTE]

2) Thats a good idea, and in real life they might do that. But McKay is probably busy with Atlantis...so is Zlenka...Carter is free as far as we know. And who knows, we might still see that in the future.

3)SGU is nothing like BSG. You know how I know? I could never watch one episode of BSG...I have watch three (four really) of SGU and still love it. BSG = not very good SGU = very good. Thats my opinion at least.

4)I think these gates are not made for the races on each planet but for the Ancients. Also...an advanced race could one day figure it out, like we did. Remember we didn't have a DHD in the start...

[AnonyMoose]

4) What good are stargates left on planets by seeder ships without DHDs, if inhabitants ever did occurr on a seeded planet, then how would they use the stargates and none are close enough to earth to dial?

Based on the past behavior of the Ancients that I have observed in all the Stargate shows and movies, they have learned through trial and error that it is best to be non-interventionist (like the Star Trek non-interference prime directive). It makes more sense to me that they would not want the seeder ships to create DHDs with the seeder gates. This way, the Ancients are the only ones that could control the gates. Notice that the Milky Way and Pegasus gates have constellation symbols (chevrons) on them, but the seeder gates have a different code that has not yet been revealed to us. If the seeder gates had DHDs, it would increase the possibility that immature and savage species would figure out how to connect to other worlds and war with each other. It would also increase the likelihood of accidentally creating more predatory species combinations, like the Go'uld (snake & human/unas) and the Wraith (Iratus bug & human).

I suspect that the seeder ships had at least two sub-criteria for gate placement other than finding planets with livable environments (air, pressure, gravity, temperature, etc.). One is to place gates on planets that at the very least had critical resources required to resupply their exploration ships, like the Destiny (live off the land - so to speak) as they travel. And two was to place gates on planets that were ideal for colonization. Unfortunately, anything can happen to those planets after the seeder gates were deposited, like discovery from advanced space exploring species, or asteroid/comet collisions, or evolution, or any number of other problems, which I assume will be the basis for problems in future episodes.

[PG15]

This is one of those "plotholes" that I really don't care to see fixed. I'd compare it to the "all aliens speak English" thing - yeah, it's a little odd, but it beats the alternative.

The last thing I want is to see Carter and McKay onboard the Destiny doing their magic thing and making things easy again.

[Pharaoh Atem]

This is one of those "plotholes" that I really don't care to see fixed. I'd compare it to the "all aliens speak English" thing - yeah, it's a little odd, but it beats the alternative.

The last thing I want is to see Carter and McKay onboard the Destiny doing their magic thing and making things easy again.

over shadowing the sgu cast .... me not want

[escyos]

im going to say it once again..."boo hoo, tv isnt going EXACTELY the way i want it"

ITS BEEN FOUR EPISODES, HOW MUCH CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedrumm3rguy]

i agree on both point on reflection:

it would kill it to have sam/mccay come over and help them out

but it is an epic plothole

mind you, in the pilot rush linked with dr.lee...so that coudl produce a pretty respectible crossover......the failing to me being this hassnt been explored enough allready, instead we got ET phone mum/wife.

if that stuff came later, and they first focused on rush going back, talking to carter or someone about the probs with personal, equipment etc...would be a great way to bost respect of rush as the new ancient guy, show they are being situationaly realistic to match the 'emotional realism' they are pumping into the characters.