Why is Geordi Blind?

[The Mastage Kidd]

This just got bugging me today. Geordi is supposedly blind because of a birth defect, but he was born on Earth and they could have fixed the defect through genetic engineering. We know the Federation allows genetic engineering to cure birth defects, so what gives?

[DigiFluid]

Um....Earth does not allow genetic engineering. It's fallout from the Eugenics Wars, still prohibited in the 24th century. That's why Bashir hid the fact that he was genetically engineered for his whole life until DS9.

[The Mastage Kidd]

Um....Earth does not allow genetic engineering. It's fallout from the Eugenics Wars, still prohibited in the 24th century. That's why Bashir hid the fact that he was genetically engineered for his whole life until DS9.

The Federation does allow genetic engineering only for the repair of birth defects.

From "Doctor Bashir, I Presume"

O'BRIEN: You're not a fraud. I don't care what enhancements your parents may have had done. Genetic recoding can't give you ambition, or a personality, or compassion or any of the things that make a person truly human.
BASHIR: Starfleet Medical won't see it that way. DNA resequencing for any reason other than repairing serious birth defects is illegal. Any genetically enhanced human being is barred from serving in Starfleet or practicing medicine.

So my question still stands. Why didn't they repair his defect?

[DigiFluid]

I stand corrected, thanks for the pre-emptive proof you know I would've asked for

I remember hearing that early in the preproduction of TNG, certain people were concerned that nobody would buy into a bald captain in the 24th century; the assumption being that baldness would have been cured by then. Gene Roddenberry's now-famous answer to that was, "in the 24th century, nobody cares if you're bald."

Maybe we can hold the same standard here, that blindness isn't regarded as a birth defect by then because there's so much more than can be done for the blind than we can do today. Perhaps in the 24th century, "birth defect" simply covers things like Downs Syndrome, or seriously debilitating physical problems.

[jelgate]

Dr. Pulaski offered the idea of occular implants to Geordi but he declined saying that the technology was too primitive at the time. Given at this time that Geordi was in the 30s range maybe when he was born the Federation just didn't have the medical technology to cure his blindness.

[jsonitsac]

Perhaps Geordi's blindness doesn't have anything to do with his genetics, maybe there was some kind of pre-natal infection that the doctors didn't notice until it was too late, or perhaps maybe a childhood accident at a really young age.

[DigiFluid]

Perhaps Geordi's blindness doesn't have anything to do with his genetics, maybe there was some kind of pre-natal infection that the doctors didn't notice until it was too late, or perhaps maybe a childhood accident at a really young age.

That much we can rule out, we know that he was born blind.

[The Mastage Kidd]

I remember hearing that early in the preproduction of TNG, certain people were concerned that nobody would buy into a bald captain in the 24th century; the assumption being that baldness would have been cured by then. Gene Roddenberry's now-famous answer to that was, "in the 24th century, nobody cares if you're bald."

Maybe we can hold the same standard here, that blindness isn't regarded as a birth defect by then because there's so much more than can be done for the blind than we can do today. Perhaps in the 24th century, "birth defect" simply covers things like Downs Syndrome, or seriously debilitating physical problems.

Baldness is a matter of cosmetics. I'm sure you can cure baldness if you want, but most people aren't vain enough to care. Compare this to blindness, which is a matter of functionality. He's born without a vital part of his body. That's pretty serious. That's a pretty debilitating physical problem. That's like saying they wouldn't cure someone who was born without legs because no one cares if you have legs. Sure no one cares, but most people would choose to have legs if they had an option to have them or not.

And as for curing mental problems. If Bashir couldn't tell the difference between a house and a cat at age 7, he obviously had some sort of mental handicap, but the federation wouldn't let his parents cure that with genetic engineering. I know they went beyond just curing his problems, but it seems immoral to allow a child to have to live with conditions like these when they can be cured.

Perhaps Geordi's blindness doesn't have anything to do with his genetics, maybe there was some kind of pre-natal infection that the doctors didn't notice until it was too late, or perhaps maybe a childhood accident at a really young age.

He was born blind. But if there is no problems with his genetics, they could cure him by using his DNA to grow new eyes for him. And if it is genetic, they could have cured him with genetic engineering.

Either way, what the H?

[Alan Wake]

In the movies and such, it looks like he went through with the genetic tinkering... because he doesn't have his visor anymore.

I'm guessing the technology is more developed at this time.

Although, I'll be honest here... I find it hard to believe that they couldn't fix his vision a lot sooner.

In the Star Trek universe, we've seen many cool fututerist devices used for healing and repairing people... from replacing an arm to reviving from the dead.

I know his visor in itself is pretty advanced to allow him to see somewhat, but I just don't buy it that they wouldn't have the medical knowldege to fix his eyes all the way.

The Thing that REALLY bugs me... in voyager, the doctor created an artificial eye for 7, and it worked just as well as a real eye. He seems to have created it like it was easy, and fairly common knowledge... so could they have done the same for Geordi?

Edit - This little link provides a lot of detail.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ocular_implant

[Ncc-72452]

Baldness is a matter of cosmetics. I'm sure you can cure baldness if you want, but most people aren't vain enough to care. Compare this to blindness, which is a matter of functionality. He's born without a vital part of his body. That's pretty serious. That's a pretty debilitating physical problem. That's like saying they wouldn't cure someone who was born without legs because no one cares if you have legs. Sure no one cares, but most people would choose to have legs if they had an option to have them or not.

And as for curing mental problems. If Bashir couldn't tell the difference between a house and a cat at age 7, he obviously had some sort of mental handicap, but the federation wouldn't let his parents cure that with genetic engineering. I know they went beyond just curing his problems, but it seems immoral to allow a child to have to live with conditions like these when they can be cured.

I'd be careful here because you wander into some pretty murky ground. I think it is a bit arrogant for society to deem children born with mental handicaps as being flawed or "wrong." Maybe they are exactly the way they are suppose to be... Perhaps the fault lies not with them, but with our discomfort with them. Where does one draw the line? What IQ is acceptable? Which dumb kids need to be cured and which ones are acceptable? What about kids with autism? They are, in some cases, extremely intelligent. Do we dumb them down to make sure they fit in? In fact, Bashir was downright belligerent to his parents because they couldn't accept him for who and what he was. They crafted their perfect child, and he was not it. I believe that he himself said that there was nothing wrong with him.

My point is that just because they don't fit into a societal mold does not mean that they need to be "cured." I have always felt that they have differences that I must accept.

He was born blind. But if there is no problems with his genetics, they could cure him by using his DNA to grow new eyes for him. And if it is genetic, they could have cured him with genetic engineering.

Either way, what the H?

It is possible that it was genetic, but was simply missed by the doctors until his birth. Mistakes happen. Both of his parents were also Starfleet officers. As such, perhaps they felt uncomfortable engaging in any genetic engineering, especially with alternate technology available, i.e. VISOR, sensor web clothing, tactile interfaces. In fact, in lieu of your earlier question, his VISOR eyesight is far better than ours. Maybe we need to be "cured" of our sub-standard eyesight and outfitted with artificial implants.

The thing I have always loved about the LaForge character is that he is handicapped, but it has not stopped him from leading a very productive life. One of his lines in "Masterpiece Society" remains one of my favorite in Trek. He and Hannah Bates were discussing his blindness, and she said, "It was the wish of our founders that no one have to suffer a life with disabilities..." He replied, "Who gave them the right to decide whether or not I should be here? Whether or not I might have something to contribute..."

In the movies and such, it looks like he went through with the genetic tinkering... because he doesn't have his visor anymore.

I'm guessing the technology is more developed at this time.

Although, I'll be honest here... I find it hard to believe that they couldn't fix his vision a lot sooner.

In the Star Trek universe, we've seen many cool fututerist devices used for healing and repairing people... from replacing an arm to reviving from the dead.

I know his visor in itself is pretty advanced to allow him to see somewhat, but I just don't buy it that they wouldn't have the medical knowldege to fix his eyes all the way.

The Thing that REALLY bugs me... in voyager, the doctor created an artificial eye for 7, and it worked just as well as a real eye. He seems to have created it like it was easy, and fairly common knowledge... so could they have done the same for Geordi?

I think in the movies they are still artificial implants. They just just fit into the eye socket and look more like eyes.

As for your other concerns, I would humbly submit that the eye is far more complex than an arm or a leg. In fact, there is very little modern medicine can do for eyes. We can correct them with optometry. Even corrective surgery is nothing more than carving a contact lens into your cornea.

As for 7 of 9, you are absolutely right. I never understood why they didn't just have her with the Locutus -look. Two eyes, no cyborg pirate look. Then, they wouldn't have the problem of explaining where her eye came from. I'm sure that Braga would fix this, like he did with SO many other problems, with Borg technology.

Edit: Just saw your own edit, and that does shed some light on the matter.

[The Mastage Kidd]

I'd be careful here because you wander into some pretty murky ground. I think it is a bit arrogant for society to deem children born with mental handicaps as being flawed or "wrong." Maybe they are exactly the way they are suppose to be... Perhaps the fault lies not with them, but with our discomfort with them. Where does one draw the line? What IQ is acceptable? Which dumb kids need to be cured and which ones are acceptable? What about kids with autism? They are, in some cases, extremely intelligent. Do we dumb them down to make sure they fit in? In fact, Bashir was downright belligerent to his parents because they couldn't accept him for who and what he was. They crafted their perfect child, and he was not it. I believe that he himself said that there was nothing wrong with him.

There is a difference between everyday stupidity and actually having a mental illness. I never said there's anything "wrong" with having a mental handicap, but, again, most people who had a choice between having one or not would choose to be cured. And autism is classified as a disease. My nephew has autism and believe me, if it could be cured his mother would have it done. It's not a matter of making them "fit in," it's a mtter of curing an affliction that causes them to suffer. And no, all the suffering doesn't just come from an inability to fit in, but also in an inability to understand others. And if someone has autism, curing the autism wouldn't reduce their intelligence, it would just eliminate their symptoms. (symptoms of autism being extremely limited intuition, extremely poor communication skills, and repetitive behavior). The intelligent people with autism are intelligent despite their condition, not because of it. The same way a stupid person without autism is stupid in-spite of having no mental problems, not because they don't.

Also, weather someone is legally retarded (not me being insensitive, that is the correct legal term) is based on more than low IQ. Someone has to have an I.Q. below 70 and limitations in two or more areas of adaptive behavior. I don't see any reason these definitions would change, and this is exactly the kind of thing that should be cured.

The only thing Bashir's parents did wrong was going beyond correcting his disorder and actually fundamentally changing who he was. And chidren learn to hate their parents for all kinds of things. Julian was angry at them for going beyong just curing his problem, and into building their perfect child.

From the script (bolded is my empghasis):

RICHARD: I'm still your father, Jules, and I will not have you talk to me like that.
BASHIR: No, you used to be my father. Now, you're my architect. The man who designed a better son to replace the defective one he was given. Well, your design has a built-in flaw. It's illegal.
...
BASHIR: I was six years old. You decided I was a failure in the first grade.
RICHARD: You don't understand, Jules. You never did.
...
AMSHA: You don't know. You've never had a child. You don't know what it's like to watch your son. To watch him fall a little further behind every day. You know he's trying, but something's holding him back. You don't know what it's like to stay up every night worrying that maybe it's your fault. Maybe you did something wrong during the pregnancy, maybe you weren't careful enough, or maybe there's something wrong with you. Maybe you passed on a genetic defect without even knowing it.


He does say they shouldn't have tinkered with him at all, but his mother's side shows that they intended to just put him on par with them. If the Federation had allowed that to happen, they might not have gotten talked in to tweaking every aspect of his being, and he might actually be grateful. I'm not saying they didn't screw up, just that from their statements, he obviously has a mental handicap that would have held him back. And since the technology existed to cure it, The decision should have rested with them and not with the Federation.

My point is that just because they don't fit into a societal mold does not mean that they need to be "cured." I have always felt that they have differences that I must accept.

I'm not saying it's "wrong", just that most of them would have the condition cured if it as an option. The same with having no legs, or no eyes, or a heart murmur. Seriously, if they fixed every heart murmur, almost (there's always a few crazies) no one would say "maybe they were supposed to have that heart murmur. Maybe you should let them live a physically less active life to not stress their heart and stand a good chance of dying very young".

It is possible that it was genetic, but was simply missed by the doctors until his birth. Mistakes happen. Both of his parents were also Starfleet officers. As such, perhaps they felt uncomfortable engaging in any genetic engineering, especially with alternate technology available, i.e. VISOR, sensor web clothing, tactile interfaces. In fact, in lieu of your earlier question, his VISOR eyesight is far better than ours. Maybe we need to be "cured" of our sub-standard eyesight and outfitted with artificial implants.

As Geordi himself said in "The Naked Now", "I see diferent, not better. If he had the choice he would want to have real eyes. And since Bashir proves genetic engineering can be done after you're born there's no reason he shouldn't be able to have them.

The thing I have always loved about the LaForge character is that he is handicapped, but it has not stopped him from leading a very productive life. One of his lines in "Masterpiece Society" remains one of my favorite in Trek. He and Hannah Bates were discussing his blindness, and she said, "It was the wish of our founders that no one have to suffer a life with disabilities..." He replied, "Who gave them the right to decide whether or not I should be here? Whether or not I might have something to contribute..."

The difference is that they kill the embryo, they don;t fix it. Again, look to "The Naked Now" and really ask why he should be blind. From an out of universe perspective, it was so they could have the handicapped guy who's condition doesn;t affect him on the show. From an in universe perspective though, WTF? They could give him the real eyes that he actually wants. Who's stopping him from doing this?

I think in the movies they are still artificial implants. They just just fit into the eye socket and look more like eyes.

As for your other concerns, I would humbly submit that the eye is far more complex than an arm or a leg. In fact, there is very little modern medicine can do for eyes. We can correct them with optometry. Even corrective surgery is nothing more than carving a contact lens into your cornea.

As for 7 of 9, you are absolutely right. I never understood why they didn't just have her with the Locutus -look. Two eyes, no cyborg pirate look. Then, they wouldn't have the problem of explaining where her eye came from. I'm sure that Braga would fix this, like he did with SO many other problems, with Borg technology.

Edit: Just saw your own edit, and that does shed some light on the matter.

The fact that 7 of 9 had an implant that works like a real eye kills your argument that they couldn't make one. Gordi has a visor, when they have implants that work like real eyes, and the technology to just replace the eyes.

[Captain Obvious]

This just got bugging me today. Geordi is supposedly blind because of a birth defect, but he was born on Earth and they could have fixed the defect through genetic engineering. We know the Federation allows genetic engineering to cure birth defects, so what gives?

if you remember from voyager, be'lanna said both she and her mother had had surgery to correct her childs defect as infants, meaning that minimum 30 years before they did not have the tech. since geordi was another 10 years older than be'lanna easily it makes sense that they did not quite have the tech to fix it pre-birth. Geordi has multiple oppertunities to get cloned eyes but turned it down.

[The Mastage Kidd]

if you remember from voyager, be'lanna said both she and her mother had had surgery to correct her childs defect as infants, meaning that minimum 30 years before they did not have the tech. since geordi was another 10 years older than be'lanna easily it makes sense that they did not quite have the tech to fix it pre-birth. Geordi has multiple oppertunities to get cloned eyes but turned it down.

Miral was a Klingon, and born in the Klingon Empire. We have no info on if the Klingon Empire is employing genetic engineering. B'Elanna was born on one of the outlying colonies, So I can see why they wouldn't have caught her problem before her birth. But Geordi was born on Earth (there's no reason to miss problems like this in the heart of the Federation when you have access to all the best doctors and facilities) and they had the tech to do what I'm suggesting in the 1990's. If I recall correctly, he turns down ocular implants, not actual eyes. If you can point me to the episode where he turns down cloned eyes I will stand corrected.

[Captain Obvious]

I cannot quote the exact episode (my TNG collection was VHS, and was lost in a flood), but I am confident it is one with Pulaski (god I HATED that lady).

Also, According to "Enterprise" ( god I hate using this as a canonical reference tool) the Klingons DID in fact have access to genetic engineering at the same time as the humans did ( IE augment virus/smooth head kilngons). I would assume that Klingons would still have fairly similar basic genetics, considering we have seen a Klingon molecular geneticist shown on TNG.

B'Elanna was born on a federation colony. Not some crazy isolationist outer colony like chakotay, but one near the klingon empire. Since there were still hostilities between the federation and the empire when she was younger, this would be a well fortified and supplied outpost/colony. Source? Memory-Alpha.

[The Mastage Kidd]

I cannot quote the exact episode (my TNG collection was VHS, and was lost in a flood), but I am confident it is one with Pulaski (god I HATED that lady).

Well I'll be darned. From: "Loud as a Whisper":
PULASKI: It's possible to install optical devices which look like normal eyes, and would still give you about the same visual range as the visor.
LAFORGE: Done? You say almost. How much reduction?
PULASKI: Twenty percent. There is another option. I can attempt to regenerate your optic nerve, and, with the help of the replicator, fashion normal eyes. You would see like everyone else.
LAFORGE: Wait a minute. I was told that was impossible.
PULASKI: I've done it twice, in situations somewhat similar to yours. Geordi, it would eliminate the constant pain you are under. Why are you hesitating?
LAFORGE: Well, when I came to see you, it was to talk about modifying this. And now you're saying it could be possible for me to have normal vision?
PULASKI: Yes.
LAFORGE: I don't know. I'd be giving up a lot.
PULASKI: There's something else you must know. This is a one shot. If you decide to change your mind, there's no going back. And there are risks. I can offer choices, not guarantees.
LAFORGE: Well, this is a lot to think about. I'll get back to you, Doctor. Thank you.

I wonder why they never came back to that.

Also, According to "Enterprise" ( god I hate using this as a canonical reference tool) the Klingons DID in fact have access to genetic engineering at the same time as the humans did ( IE augment virus/smooth head kilngons). I would assume that Klingons would still have fairly similar basic genetics, considering we have seen a Klingon molecular geneticist shown on TNG.

(Enterprise is fair game to use. You shouldn't feel bad about it.) This is fair enough. Although one wonders why Klingons are so averted to genetic engineering.

B'Elanna was born on a federation colony. Not some crazy isolationist outer colony like chakotay, but one near the klingon empire. Since there were still hostilities between the federation and the empire when she was younger, this would be a well fortified and supplied outpost/colony. Source? Memory-Alpha.

And again your logic is impeccable. (Thats refreshing). I am now satisfied that the tech to fix his problem simply didn't exist. I guess it's easier to build a child from the ground up or change brain chemistry than to regrow eyes and limbs.