Free to Be You and Me (503)

[LoneStar1836]

If being Lucifer's vessel gives Sam a chance at redemption, as some of you are guessing, then wouldn't that mean he can't EVER give consent? If he gives in to Lucifer, even for the right reasons, that would mimic what he did by drinking demon blood 'for the bigger picture' and would mean that he didn't learn his lesson and WOULDN'T be redeeming himself, right? ...my head hurts.

Are there any right reasons?

I can't think of any at the moment because it seems that if he does give in and Lucifer takes over, it will only make Lucifer more powerful.

I see nothing redeeming about Sam giving consent, no matter what the circumstances. I can't see him doing it because of some larger plan for the greater good because well, atm, I can't imagine a scenario where it would be a positive thing for our side...unless it's some self-sacrificial thing...which I don't really want either.

[Crichiel]

Are there any right reasons?

I can't think of any at the moment because it seems that if he does give in and Lucifer takes over, it will only make Lucifer more powerful.

I see nothing redeeming about Sam giving consent, no matter what the circumstances. I can't see him doing it because of some larger plan for the greater good because well, atm, I can't imagine a scenario where it would be a positive thing for our side...unless it's some self-sacrificial thing...which I don't really want either.

That's the only kind of thing I can think of. Like he would agree to it because he thinks he would be able to control Lucifer, or that Lucifer would be vulnerable...I don't see either of these happening, though. That's why I don't quite get those who said it would be a redemption thing. Then again, I am not a very creative storyteller, so just because I can't think of it, that doesn't mean a whole lot!

[Betelgeuze]

I'm not so sure that there will be a fight between Dean and Sam as Michael and Lucifer. All things are pointing that way, which leads me to think that the writers won't take that direction

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Me neither. The show has always been about the brothers defeating the bad guys on their own. In an interviewhttp://io9.com/5265112/is-supernatural-for-atheists Sera Gamble says that the show is about humanism, if that is so than it will be the humanity of the characters that will allow them to win.

I must admit that i would like to see Dean being posessed by Michael. So far it has mostly been Sam who was posessed or under the influence of a demon.

That's the only kind of thing I can think of. Like he would agree to it because he thinks he would be able to control Lucifer, or that Lucifer would be vulnerable...I don't see either of these happening, though. That's why I don't quite get those who said it would be a redemption thing. Then again, I am not a very creative storyteller, so just because I can't think of it, that doesn't mean a whole lot!

What if Dean gets tricked into inviting Michael in, and Lucifer promises that if Sam becomes his vessel he will free Dean from Michael. The brothers have been shown to go through great lengths to save each other.

[iolanda]

That's the only kind of thing I can think of. Like he would agree to it because he thinks he would be able to control Lucifer, or that Lucifer would be vulnerable...I don't see either of these happening, though. That's why I don't quite get those who said it would be a redemption thing. Then again, I am not a very creative storyteller, so just because I can't think of it, that doesn't mean a whole lot!

Lucifer isn't really on the easy visible side of evil here, as well as the angels don't make an all over shiny good impression. Maybe Lucifer is able to convince Sam, that his goal is and was good, and that god forced him to be on the visible bad side.

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Me neither. The show has always been about the brothers defeating the bad guys on their own. In an interviewhttp://io9.com/5265112/is-supernatural-for-atheists Sera Gamble says that the show is about humanism, if that is so than it will be the humanity of the characters that will allow them to win.

I must admit that i would like to see Dean being posessed by Michael. So far it has mostly been Sam who was posessed or under the influence of a demon.


What if Dean gets tricked into inviting Michael in, and Lucifer promises that if Sam becomes his vessel he will free Dean from Michael. The brothers have been shown to go through great lengths to save each other.

I don't want to see either brother being posessed, because that would mean that he will be an empty shell afterwards or the writers have to brake what they foreshadowed in the last episode. Neither possibility is a good one.

And the whole sacrificing for each other thing should be really done, shouldn't it? I mean, they tried this now a couple of time, and it never really worked for the better.

The only way I see to end this whole dilemma in a way Sam and Dean will get out of this without harm is by re-establishing the status quo there was before this all started with God back in heaven and Lucifer back in hell.

It's just a theory, but maybe the writers think alike with me (and please think about this happening in the Supernatural-verse). Before God created the humans there was paradise and peace for all creations, but there was no free decisions, no emotions and no fun, it was all blank and boring. It all got more interesting with the humans and their emotions and mistakes. Its like a scale, for every good thing there must be a bad thing, for every angel there is a demon and for God there is the Devil.

When Gamble says, that this show is about humanism, maybe there will be an ending when Sam and Dean have to realize, that they can't kill evil without ruling out good at the same time and that the only way to end this in a way will be to get the scale back into balance.

Like said, just a theory, but I can't imagine an ending where Lucifer is really killed. What would that mean for S6? Reinventing a whole new new where everything is happy sunshine? Doesn't really sound like SPN. Or will they just clean up the last fuglies on earth. Also not that interesting.

[LizzieAnne]

There are so many ways this could go and I'm sure Kripke will surprise us all.

As it's already been said... in this Season the writers are going for the humanity angle and also according the Sera Gamble bringing the brothers together after being ripped apart.

So I'm really hoping that both Michael and Lucifer won't take possession of Sam and Dean...in fact I think they could be lying when they say they need them. Or that although they would be their ultimate vessels, they can easily manage without them for the battle ahead.

Maybe God had already seen the coming unrest in heaven (all knowing after all) and had no intention for the apocalypse to be put in motion, but for whatever reason had to let it play out, so put in place Sam and Dean as the ones to save humanity.

Lucifer has said twice now that he won't lie or deceive..to both Sam and his current vessel...that makes me suspicious of him.

I'm thinking that Michael is going to be as bad as Lucifer in his quest for victory and that to save humanity Dean and Sam will have fight together to defeat both Michael's army of angels and Lucifer's hordes. My favourite scenario at the moment.

How they get to do that is anybody's guess...I'm hoping they get to have God on their side.

Also if heaven has sent the Four Horsemen to earth without God's consent he may well be more than a little miffed with Zachariah and Michael. Maybe we get to see the wrath of God fall on their heads. Zachariah did look pretty worried when Cas turned up to save Dean and Sam.

[Madwelshboy]

Just got around to this episode. It was good, but not great IMO. The Cas/Dean stuff really made the episode for me. Cas in a strip club = Classic. It was good humor present in a non humorous way. The reveal of Sam being Lucifer's true vessel, didnt come as that much of a shock for me, but it should add some interesting layers to Sam's character. An i begs the question, will her tell Dean when they meet again. I do like how Mark Pellegrino play's Lucifer, in a sympathetically scary way.

[P-90_177]

Just got around to this episode. It was good, but not great IMO. The Cas/Dean stuff really made the episode for me. Cas in a strip club = Classic. It was good humor present in a non humorous way. The reveal of Sam being Lucifer's true vessel, didnt come as that much of a shock for me, but it should add some interesting layers to Sam's character. An i begs the question, will her tell Dean when they meet again. I do like how Mark Pellegrino play's Lucifer, in a sympathetically scary way.

Yeah it must be said there's not many actors that are able to come across as scary and yet sympathetic at the exact same time. lol. Thing is you know he wants to destroy the world (As far as we know) and yet you can't help but like Lucifer.

[the fifth man]

Yeah it must be said there's not many actors that are able to come across as scary and yet sympathetic at the exact same time. lol. Thing is you know he wants to destroy the world (As far as we know) and yet you can't help but like Lucifer.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I like him. But, this portrayal does making totally hating him a little harder.

[Crichiel]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I like him. But, this portrayal does making totally hating him a little harder.

Yeah, this episode even more than Sympathy for the Devil made me so happy with their casting choice for Lucifer. I didn't know if Mark Pelligrino's guest shot on Lost was fluke, but I now I see it wasn't. He is an impressive actor. I hope Lucifer can use him as a host for quite a while!

[flameling]

If some one brought Castiel back, did they bring Jimmy back to? This is just a question that's annoying me.

[LoneStar1836]

If some one brought Castiel back, did they bring Jimmy back to? This is just a question that's annoying me.

Show hasn't indicated one way or the other. Hopefully they will mention it at some point.

I would hope that Jimmy died and was able to move on when Raphael took out Cas and now we only see his body, but who knows.