Ancient power problem

[Atlantean 7921]

Has anyone ever noticed how the Ancient systems had a flaw? Any time someone wanted to use a piece of Ancient tech, say Atlantis, they had to have a ZPM which were apparently hard to make even for the Ancients. Why not build the power source into the individual machine. Then it would get its power from itself, not the main power grid. Then automatic systems which would normally take power away from a very valuable ZPM could run without sucking up power. An example would be Atlantis's deep space sensors that ran in the background without even Mckay knowing. Plus it's a great safety precaution in the sense that if the city is under attack and we only have one ZPM, all the power has to go to the shields but that's ok because everything else is self-sufficient. Otherwise, we would have to power down certain things and limit power to others and in the sense that if main power is out transporter closets, labs and their consoles, and countless other things are still operable. Finally, I would like to say that certain or any and all systems can easily be connected to main power if need be.

[thekillman]

and then you end up replacing the batteries every few weeks. ALL batteries

[Atlantean 7921]

No, as advanced as the Ancients were you don't think they had some kind of long lasting low energy output device. We just sift through the ancient database and instal them where need be. If we had to we could just instal our own generators. I'm just saying I'm surprised the Ancients didn't do it. I know I would.

[Buba uognarf]

Has anyone ever noticed how the Ancient systems had a flaw. Any time someone wanted to use a piece of Ancient tech. say Atlantis you had to have a ZPM which were apparently hard to make even for the Ancients. Why not build the power source into the indivdual machine. Then it would get it's power from itself not the main power grid. Then automatic systems which would normally take power away from a very valluable ZPM could run without succing up power. An example would be Atlantis's deepspace scensors that ran in the background without even Mckay knowing. Plus it's a great safety procoution in the sence that if the city is under attack and we only have one ZPM, all the power has to go to the shields but thats ok because every thing else is self sufficient. Otherwise we would have to power down certain things and limit power to others and in the sence that if main power is out transporter closets, labs and their consols, and countless other things are still opperable. Finally I would like to say that certain or any and all systems can easilly be connected to main power if need be.

Who says that ZPMs were hard to make? From what I've seen it wasn't hard at all for the Ancients to build them. Even 10,000 years later there are ZPMs around add to this the Asurans had a virtually limitless supply of them and I see no reason why the Ancients couldn't build ZPMs as fast or infact far faster than it took to deplete them.

[lordofseas]

Has anyone ever noticed how the Ancient systems had a flaw. Any time someone wanted to use a piece of Ancient tech. say Atlantis you had to have a ZPM which were apparently hard to make even for the Ancients. Why not build the power source into the indivdual machine. Then it would get it's power from itself not the main power grid. Then automatic systems which would normally take power away from a very valluable ZPM could run without succing up power. An example would be Atlantis's deepspace scensors that ran in the background without even Mckay knowing. Plus it's a great safety procoution in the sence that if the city is under attack and we only have one ZPM, all the power has to go to the shields but thats ok because every thing else is self sufficient. Otherwise we would have to power down certain things and limit power to others and in the sence that if main power is out transporter closets, labs and their consols, and countless other things are still opperable. Finally I would like to say that certain or any and all systems can easilly be connected to main power if need be.

Because having all their systems fully powered by a ZPM is more advantageous than having little batteries all over the city, which would be annoying to replace.

[thekillman]

besides, there aren't a whole lot of races around that can deplete the shield very fast. or can even withstand a single Atlantis volley. besides, they could obviously build them faster than they depleted. the real ancient power problem was, that they couldnt use their power better.

[Buba uognarf]

I don't think there was an Ancient power problem, most of their tech lasts for millions of years and works and in that time they could build who knows how many ZPMs.

Most Ancient tech is IMO very efficient, however Atlantis isn't which is a plot hole.

[Quadhelix]

Most Ancient tech is IMO very efficient, however Atlantis isn't which is a plot hole.

Atlantis is designed to run off of three ZPMs. Yes, it's halls are lined with superconductors, but most known superconductors loose their superconductivity once they carry a certain current.

Also, the power dissipated by a circuit is P=(V^2)/R, where V is the voltage and R is the resistance, and the power dissipated by an individual circuit element is P=(I^2)*R, where I is the current. Of course, part of this assumes DC Current, so I might have to go back and look into the effects of an AC circuit.

Nevertheless, it is quite likely that ZPMs have a huge voltage across them; as we can see from P=(V^2)/R, if we want to keep the ZPM from being depleted in very short order, we should hook one up only to circuits that have very high resistance. This means that any power conduit leading to a system that doesn't need huge amounts of power is going to have in it very large resistors to prevent the ZPM from depleting itself turning a toaster into an atomic explosion. However, we can see from P=(I^2)*R that, since most of the circuit's resistance is in those resistors, so too is most of the power usage.

[Atlantean 7921]

Atlantis is designed to run off of three ZPMs. Yes, it's halls are lined with superconductors, but most known superconductors loose their superconductivity once they carry a certain current.

Also, the power dissipated by a circuit is P=(V^2)/R, where V is the voltage and R is the resistance, and the power dissipated by an individual circuit element is P=(I^2)*R, where I is the current. Of course, part of this assumes DC Current, so I might have to go back and look into the effects of an AC circuit.

Nevertheless, it is quite likely that ZPMs have a huge voltage across them; as we can see from P=(V^2)/R, if we want to keep the ZPM from being depleted in very short order, we should hook one up only to circuits that have very high resistance. This means that any power conduit leading to a system that doesn't need huge amounts of power is going to have in it very large resistors to prevent the ZPM from depleting itself turning a toaster into an atomic explosion. However, we can see from P=(I^2)*R that, since most of the circuit's resistance is in those resistors, so too is most of the power usage.

Thanks for your imput but could you put that into simpler terms?

Also I think I remember hearing that ZPMs are hard to make. Plus if they weren't hard to make wouldn't the ancients have a couple of spares so they can just plug in the spare instead of waiting for a new one to be made. Right? Well that may just be a plot hole but thats my take on it.

[Xaeden]

Thanks for your imput but could you put that into simpler terms?

Also I think I remember hearing that ZPMs are hard to make. Plus if they weren't hard to make wouldn't the ancients have a couple of spares so they can just plug in the spare instead of waiting for a new one to be made. Right? Well that may just be a plot hole but thats my take on it.

Who's to say that they didn't have spares? There weren't any around for Earth to find, but that doesn't mean much. For one, The Ancients took almost everything, that wasn't nailed down, with them when they returned to Earth. Although there were some jumpers and the odd thing here and there, they never even found hand weapons in the city. So why wouldn't they take extra ZPMs with them, especially when they were hoping to find the remains of their old civilization that they could use as the basis for rebuilding? Two, we have no way of knowing at what point it was that they decided to give up and go back to Earth. They lasted for years against the siege where they seemed to have been bombarded for quite a bit before they sunk the city. It stands to reason that they had to replace ZPMs in that time and perhaps they eventually sunk the city and gave up on Atlantis altogether because they didn't have a large enough supply to hold out much longer and either couldn't make them fast enough or they had an off world factory that was destroyed. When all was said and done, they may have only had three ZPMs left on Atlantis before they gave up. Three, having spares "around" is relative when you have a gate network that allows you to connect to other cities and outposts in seconds. So there didn't need to be extra ZPMs in the city for them to have spares "around." However, after a 100 year war and 10,000 years of inactivity, there isn't much around that hasn't been destroyed or damaged already.

[boyd22]

Who's to say that they didn't have spares? There weren't any around for Earth to find, but that doesn't mean much. For one, The Ancients took almost everything, that wasn't nailed down, with them when they returned to Earth. Although there were some jumpers and the odd thing here and there, they never even found hand weapons in the city. So why wouldn't they take extra ZPMs with them, especially when they were hoping to find the remains of their old civilization that they could use as the basis for rebuilding? Two, we have no way of knowing at what point it was that they decided to give up and go back to Earth. They lasted for years against the siege where they seemed to have been bombarded for quite a bit before they sunk the city. It stands to reason that they had to replace ZPMs in that time and perhaps they eventually sunk the city and gave up on Atlantis altogether because they didn't have a large enough supply to hold out much longer and either couldn't make them fast enough or they had an off world factory that was destroyed. When all was said and done, they may have only had three ZPMs left on Atlantis before they gave up. Three, having spares "around" is relative when you have a gate network that allows you to connect to other cities and outposts in seconds. So there didn't need to be extra ZPMs in the city for them to have spares "around." However, after a 100 year war and 10,000 years of inactivity, there isn't much around that hasn't been destroyed or damaged already.

that begs the question, why didn't the Ancient's just take the city with them...from what we know, the Ancient's had a hard time adapting to the conditions that were presented to them once they returned to earth...certainly having the city would have helped them rebuild all they had lost during there war with the wraith..

sorry, a bit off topic but, figured i'd put my 2 cents in...

[Xaeden]

that begs the question, why didn't the Ancient's just take the city with them...from what we know, the Ancient's had a hard time adapting to the conditions that were presented to them once they returned to earth...certainly having the city would have helped them rebuild all they had lost during there war with the wraith..

sorry, a bit off topic but, figured i'd put my 2 cents in...

For whatever reason they kept Atlantis where it was until the siege began. At which point, reaching orbit would've been too difficult. Atlantis is so massive that it has problems powering multiple systems at once, especially when they are under strain and that's exactly what would've happened during the siege - The Wraith bombardment would've taken a heavy toll on the shields, making it difficult to power the engines and if they could get enough power to the engines, regardless, the bombardment coming down on them would've put pressure on them, as well, if they tried to fly upward. So their only option was to sink the city which bought them time if their ZPM supply was running low, (which seems to be the case since they built the drilling platform) but the Wraith didn't seem to be going anywhere.

[thekillman]

rising up and entering hyperspace would be too dangerous. especially if a big fleet was in orbit.

[Quadhelix]

Thanks for your imput but could you put that into simpler terms?

Basically, if we assume that a ZPM is a Direct Current voltage source like some sort of super-D-cell, then it makes sense for something designed to use ZPMs to be very inefficient.

The reason for this is because a ZPM would have to have a huge voltage across themselves: we know that ZPMs contain enough energy to destroy planets and that they can be depleted fairly quickly if the need arises.

If you hooked one of these huge voltages to something like a 100-watt light-bulb, the massive surge of current would instantly vaporize the bulb - and probably anything within a half-mile radius of it as well. Even if it were a really durable light-bulb that could somehow survive the huge surge of current, huge amounts of power would be wasted due to the enormous current and voltage.

In order to reduce the amount of power wasted (and to prevent nuclear light-bulbs), the Ancients would have had to include massive resistors in their circuits. The up side is that there would be far less power wasted, and the light-bulbs won't explode. The down side is that there is still going to be large amounts of power wasted in the resistors. Nevertheless, the resistors are absolutely necessary not only to prevent even worse waste, but also to keep equipment from exploding.

[Buba uognarf]

Basically, if we assume that a ZPM is a Direct Current voltage source like some sort of super-D-cell, then it makes sense for something designed to use ZPMs to be very inefficient.

The reason for this is because a ZPM would have to have a huge voltage across themselves: we know that ZPMs contain enough energy to destroy planets and that they can be depleted fairly quickly if the need arises.

If you hooked one of these huge voltages to something like a 100-watt light-bulb, the massive surge of current would instantly vaporize the bulb - and probably anything within a half-mile radius of it as well. Even if it were a really durable light-bulb that could somehow survive the huge surge of current, huge amounts of power would be wasted due to the enormous current and voltage.

In order to reduce the amount of power wasted (and to prevent nuclear light-bulbs), the Ancients would have had to include massive resistors in their circuits. The up side is that there would be far less power wasted, and the light-bulbs won't explode. The down side is that there is still going to be large amounts of power wasted in the resistors. Nevertheless, the resistors are absolutely necessary not only to prevent even worse waste, but also to keep equipment from exploding.

I'm greening you for this explanation.

What about ships and technologies not designed to use ZPMs but have the ability to use them anyway? Like our own 304's and Aurora's.