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    #16
    Originally posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    I thought it was just the DHD that needed a control crystal capable of dialing an eight symbol address to dial another galaxy, when was it said that the gate actually needs one of these Character?
    I just don't recall it being mentioned that the actual gate needs to be tinkered with to allow it to dial another galaxy.
    Thats actualy exactly what i meant, the whatever dialing device needs the control crystal, not the gate itself.

    Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
    Earth needed Jack's dialing program because Earth lacks a DHD. Sam's MacGyvered version is incomplete, she says so herself. DHD's can dial other galaxies without a power boost. Thor dialed Ida via Earth's gate using nothing but his palm device when he took Carter there to deal with the replicators. Assuming this is a remote dialer with a bit of a power boost included, there is no reason to assume that a standard DHD lacks sufficient power to make an intergalactic jump.

    Think about it. If a jaffa's staff weapon powersource can be tinkered with to power the gate...do you really think the DHD powersource is inadequate?
    I'll comment on this part since the rest is covered by killmans software example. DHDs CANT power intergalactic wormholes, how many time must we tell you this. If they could, atlantis wouldnt have had problems dialing earth in season 1. Thors device might either use the method that killman descried, or transfer lots of power wirelesly to the gate, either way the power consumtion is way more than a dhd can provide. Lastly, it wasnt the jaffa staff weapon that powered the gate, it was an ancient designed poersouce that used the staff power source somehow in its design. It could have also used the same trick thor used to just get a connection and draw power from destination gate.

    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
    TODD had them. besides, you still need an intergalactic dialling programm, and an adress. seeing the amount of possible configurations, its impossible for the wraith to accidently dial the right adress. todd had a ZPM. yes. todd might have an adress. but he still needs the programm to do so. and seeing as he probably has no utter clue how it would even work...
    Maybe Todd didnt even have them, after all werent they stolen by the guys in Midway? And even if he did, whats the point of invading on food and going against earths sizable armies, or impenetrable iris.


    Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

    Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

    Comment


      #17
      the powergenerator drew all power from the Lnaq in a very short time, while it is implied that the normal operating is that its a weak, extremely long lasting one. so masses of energy drawn to get the first connection, then the asgard gate took over.

      Comment


        #18
        In "Home" they were going to draw energy from the mist...that has nothing to do with connecting to another gate and using its energy source. Besides, the gate on the other side is going to have the same power source.

        The powersource from the Staff weapon is what powers Jack's thingamagig. So we know the power is not that extreme.

        The DHDs that powered the gate bridge gates had to stay with those gates. Otherwise what powered them? Every space gate we've seen has had nodes attached that provide stabilization and power, not to mention DHD processing operations. The gate bridge had to leave the DHDs with them in order for them to have the power and the macros to 'save' the passengers and then forward them on.

        To answer your question why didn't earth canibalize another DHD? I'll give you another question to answer that. Why didn't Earth use the Prometheus or Daedalus to pick up another MW DHD and put it in the SGC?

        Also, Ida and Pegasus are probably not the same distance from the MW. The farther galaxy would require more power. Not sure which is which.

        And do you really think that Orlin's little makeshift gate could connect to the network when the Pegasus gates can't? It's not software compatibility, it's functionality, which means hardware.
        Stargate: ROTA wiki

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
          In "Home" they were going to draw energy from the mist...that has nothing to do with connecting to another gate and using its energy source. Besides, the gate on the other side is going to have the same power source.
          Yes, it has to do with drawing power from the mist, as oposed to just the dhd, whats your point?

          The DHDs that powered the gate bridge gates had to stay with those gates. Otherwise what powered them? Every space gate we've seen has had nodes attached that provide stabilization and power, not to mention DHD processing operations. The gate bridge had to leave the DHDs with them in order for them to have the power and the macros to 'save' the passengers and then forward them on.
          yea, they needed what, 30 gates? because one doesnt have the power to dial directly, so again, your point?

          To answer your question why didn't earth canibalize another DHD? I'll give you another question to answer that. Why didn't Earth use the Prometheus or Daedalus to pick up another MW DHD and put it in the SGC?
          Why would they do that? That would just make another gate unusable, potentialy stranding people who might come though it. And their own stuff works just as well.

          And do you really think that Orlin's little makeshift gate could connect to the network when the Pegasus gates can't? It's not software compatibility, it's functionality, which means hardware.
          How do you figure that? His gate was very different from a normal one (mw or peg, doesnt matter), yet it could still connect to another mw gate, so if two completely different gates can be connected, i'd say its clearly a software isue.


          Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

          Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

          Comment


            #20
            Are you seriously saying that the SGC's dialing computer is as advanced as a DHD? What are you smoking? Even Carter said otherwise.
            Stargate: ROTA wiki

            Comment


              #21
              When exactly was anything said in the show about the dhd being so much more advanced? I remember Carter said her program skips a few protocols (as in safety messures and such) to get a lock, but thats all. In the what, 14? years they had only a single event that would have been preveted if they had a dhd. They can use the gate just fine as it is, so whats the problem?


              Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

              Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

              Comment


                #22
                in all those years the dialling programm has been significantly upgraded, yes. i believe it was DHD-grade after jack's upgrades.

                Ida IS far away. now i dont know exactly how far and i absolutely dont fancy hunting quotes, or calculating it. its far. no hyperdrive was as fast as the upgraded cargoship, and even the cargoship needed days.

                in HOME, they wanted to dial pegasus again when on earth, i believe, mckay theorised they only needed just long enough to get a connection, then the myst would power the gate from there.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Hammond informs Weir that there has been an accident aboard the Prometheus. They can't go back to Atlantis. But McKay says they don't need the ship. And they don't need the ZPM to both establish and maintain the connection to the Pegasus galaxy, as was needed the first time they left Earth. He explains that because the gate on M5S-224 draws its energy from the atmosphere, all they have to do is establish a 3.5 microsecond connection and the planet's energy will do the rest. He just needs to run a few tests with the depleted ZPM. General Hammond thinks it's folly, but he arranges to have the ZPM brought to the lab.
                  gotcha


                  ATLANTIS. CONFERENCE ROOM.

                  [The beginning of this scene is missing from my copy but I imagine that somebody said something about the Atlantis Gate being the only one in Pegasus which can dial Earth.]

                  McKAY: It is, but that's because it's the only one with an additional control crystal that allows an eighth chevron to lock.

                  SHEPPARD: It's probably a security measure.

                  McKAY: It doesn't matter. As long as we have the control crystal, I can make the other Gate work.
                  more to come

                  HAMMOND: The ZeeP.M.'s been depleted -- it's of no use.

                  McKAY: Actually, that's not entirely true. See, the last time we used it, the ZedP.M. had to establish and maintain a wormhole back to Atlantis. This time round, all we need for it to do is to have enough energy to establish the briefest of connections -- by my calculations, approximately, what, three point five microseconds.

                  HAMMOND: That hardly seems like enough time to establish a connection ...

                  McKAY (interrupting): General, when we first set foot on M5S-224, before the wormhole shut down, I picked up fluctuations in the energy field. Now, at the time, I just assumed that that was an effect of the Gate's residual energy signature. Now, having given it some thought, I realised that can't account for such sizeable variances, which leaves only one possible explanation. The Gate must have been energised on our arrival, meaning it doesn't just draw power on outgoing wormholes, but on incoming wormholes as well. All we have to do is make a connection. Three point five microseconds, that's the minimum amount of time it requires to confirm a lock before the Gate automatically kicks in, drawing power from the atmosphere to maintain the wormhole.

                  my point is proven. thor just had to make a long enough connection with their homeworld to dial it. knowing by then, naq generators were available and atleast 1 powered the gate, and a dozen of them create a wormhole of 1.3 seconds, a naq generator opens a long enough wormhole to have the other gate continue powering the connection
                  Last edited by thekillman; 21 April 2009, 09:15 AM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    gotcha




                    more to come




                    my point is proven. thor just had to make a long enough connection with their homeworld to dial it. knowing by then, naq generators were available and atleast 1 powered the gate, and a dozen of them create a wormhole of 1.3 seconds, a naq generator opens a long enough wormhole to have the other gate continue powering the connection
                    1st...this was all an illusion. McKay is stating a theory, like his ability to finish the ancient's research that ended up blowing up a planet. Unless we see it happen it can't be accepted as fact.

                    2nd...the 8th chevron won't lock because there isn't a gate with the same frequency to lock onto until the control crystal temporarily resets the frequency. That fits...Rodney just didn't know how the crystal worked...nothing new there. Furthermore, if you were correct, then the gates in the gatebride would have connected to each other because they didn't need the 8th chevron. They couldn't because they were on different networks(different frequencies). Rewatch the episode. This is about as firm proof as I can give you for the frequencies theory.

                    3rd...we know a gate can draw power from the destination, that doesn't mean it will automatically.

                    4th...Thor towed the Prometheus from the MW to Ida in less than two seconds. It can't be that far away.

                    5th...if the SGC can provide power for a micro connection, shouldn't they have been able to dial Atlantis when it had a Zpm? See, they can't in the series therefore you should assume that Rodney's micro connection idea is a load of crap. Or how about evacuate Atlantis back to earth in the Siege rather than sending the ZPM to Atlantis via the Daedalus?
                    Stargate: ROTA wiki

                    Comment


                      #25
                      1) Their trip to earth was an illusion, Mkays understanding of how a dhd works isnt.
                      2) Yes, its a fact that there are gate systems, most likely asosiated with the galaxy they're in. That, however, only means that you need a special control program (like Mkays) or a control crystal if you want to dial a gate from a different system, not that a gate can dial another in another galaxy with just a standard dhd.
                      3) So?
                      4) That was two seconds to earth, to ida it was "many hours".
                      5) Maybe earth just doesnt know how to configure the gate to provide power from the recieving gate. Although imo, thors dialing device also provided power for the intergalactic connection via some wireless means, other than that, i can only remember a black hole powering the wormhole from the recieving gate.


                      Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

                      Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Character View Post
                        1) Their trip to earth was an illusion, Mkays understanding of how a dhd works isnt.
                        2) Yes, its a fact that there are gate systems, most likely asosiated with the galaxy they're in. That, however, only means that you need a special control program (like Mkays) or a control crystal if you want to dial a gate from a different system, not that a gate can dial another in another galaxy with just a standard dhd.
                        3) So?
                        4) That was two seconds to earth, to ida it was "many hours".
                        5) Maybe earth just doesnt know how to configure the gate to provide power from the recieving gate. Although imo, thors dialing device also provided power for the intergalactic connection via some wireless means, other than that, i can only remember a black hole powering the wormhole from the recieving gate.
                        Ok, you got me there. I should have checked the dvd first.

                        But...McKay isn't an ancient, he doesn't understand their tech that well. He just claims he does.
                        Stargate: ROTA wiki

                        Comment


                          #27
                          seeing what he does with ancient tech, i say he is good with it.

                          the difference with US trying and the asgard trying is, well, they're the asgard. i remember now, even in Home we needed the ZPM. in Fifth race we needed the powerbooster. the asgard need that little stone. so i was wrong: we STILL cant power it properly. thor's little device might be able to power the gate remotely. something possible via microwaves, something we can do in RL and something absolutely plausible.

                          i dont like the freqency part. it was said numerous times atlantis is the only way back. maybe the pegasus network was made to have that flaw? mckay himself said the atlantis DHD was custom made. maybe they only wanted intergalactic dials via their city ships?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            seeing what he does with ancient tech, i say he is good with it.

                            the difference with US trying and the asgard trying is, well, they're the asgard. i remember now, even in Home we needed the ZPM. in Fifth race we needed the powerbooster. the asgard need that little stone. so i was wrong: we STILL cant power it properly. thor's little device might be able to power the gate remotely. something possible via microwaves, something we can do in RL and something absolutely plausible.

                            i dont like the freqency part. it was said numerous times atlantis is the only way back. maybe the pegasus network was made to have that flaw? mckay himself said the atlantis DHD was custom made. maybe they only wanted intergalactic dials via their city ships?
                            Atlantis is the only way back...because it is the only one with the control crystal. If the control crystal was simply a key lock, I would think the Wraith could have picked the lock by now...they did manage to rewrite the replicator code to not attack them...unlocking the gates would seem easy compared to working on machines that are actively trying to kill you.

                            Also, I think the city ships were designed like hattak in that they landed on outposts. If the outposts had the stargates near them(like the one in antarctica) they would have their own DHD and Atlantis or any other city ship wouldn't need one. So maybe they custom built it when they moved to Atlantis. The other buried city ship didn't have a gate in the control room, it was outside. So maybe the city ship isn't supposed to have a gate inside and the Lanteans just did that because Atlantis was special or because they had it sitting on a water world.

                            It would also give them the option of dialing out no matter where they went. All it would take is a little recalibration and they basically have a mobile gate.

                            It also explains why there isn't a red gate sitting in Atlantis...it was left on Earth.

                            As for the frequencies...it gives a reason for the Pegasus gates having blue crystal instead of "new show new color" reason. It also explains why the Wraith have never been able to dial out of the galaxy. The frequency isn't listed in the DHD's, only in the control crystal. That way, it's the only way to dial out or dial in. No one, say a Nox, could accidentally dial in to Pegasus and end up wraith food.

                            Originally, I would say the reason was to prevent the spread of the plague to the new galaxy, and the wraith reason just fell into place later.
                            Stargate: ROTA wiki

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                              If you took a Pegasus gate and flew it to the MW, then you could dial 8 chevrons and make a connection because it's on the same frequency, but you couldn't dial a nearby MW gate because it's a red gate instead of a blue.
                              You're wrong:
                              Spoiler:
                              They did exactly what you said they can't in "Enemy at the Gate."




                              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                              The Key is the Atlantis crystal, the one that Mckay removed and took to the mist planet. It is what alters the frequency of the wormhole(temporarily) to allow a connection.

                              This same crystal is what alters the Atlantis stargate to red frequency so Earth can dial in. All the Lanteans had to do was reprogram the crystal to reset the Atlantis gate frequency only if Earth was asking for a connection. Simple to do.
                              Wow, I absolutely "love" how you make baseless assumptions and then assert them as facts. As for the crystal itself:

                              "Home" [1x09]
                              WEIR: I thought the Atlantis gate was the only one capable of dialing Earth.

                              McKAY: It is, but that is because it is the only one with the additional control crystal that allows the eighth chevron to lock.


                              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                              Earth needed Jack's dialing program because Earth lacks a DHD. Sam's MacGyvered version is incomplete, she says so herself. DHD's can dial other galaxies without a power boost. Thor dialed Ida via Earth's gate using nothing but his palm device when he took Carter there to deal with the replicators. Assuming this is a remote dialer with a bit of a power boost included, there is no reason to assume that a standard DHD lacks sufficient power to make an intergalactic jump.
                              That's a big assumption.



                              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                              Think about it. If a jaffa's staff weapon powersource can be tinkered with to power the gate...do you really think the DHD powersource is inadequate?
                              Well, we really have no idea what O'Neill did to the Staff weapon's power source to "juice it up." Also, we know from "Home" that DHD's certainly don't have a strong enough power source to dial other galaxies: if they did, then the Team could have taken the dialing crystal to any planet that they wanted and dialed back to Earth.



                              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                              The Killman...the wraith had ZPMs, are you saying that's inadequate to power the gate?
                              Except, as we know from the fact that Wraith had to steal fresh ZPMs for their cloning facility, all of the Wraith's ZPMs are depleted.
                              "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                              - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                              "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                              - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                              "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                              - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

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                                #30
                                again i say: the pegasus gates have a built-in flaw. now the Sister ship had a chair in the normal gateroom, and the gate outside. seeing as humans can pretty easily transport the chair, its possible the villagers took the gate there and put the chair in the gateroom. or it simply was a different model

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