Pretty messed up....

[Zamboni]

Only if you consider enemy and bad guy to be synonyms, and they're not. By that logic the Atlantis expedition are also the bad guys.

Yes. If you're a Wraith, the Atlantis expedition would be a thorn on your side. If you're Kolya (though I think he's dead now), you'd see Sheppard as the reason for your expulsion from your home.

Yes they are, they're civilians trying to save their village.

Civilian + guns / weapons = militant. Ask ANY military personnel, they'll tell you the same. Even the police would consider any armed civilian a threat. That's why you NEVER raise a gun toward a police officer if you don't want to get shot.

Complete nonsense, this boils down to the juvenile 'you're either with us or against us mentality' that nationalistic crazies try to instil in people.

Armed combatants in a field of combat would be identified by their allegiance. Any military power within the war zone that is not identified as a friendly would automatically be a threat. Whether or not actions will be take against this threat is a different question. However in this case Gervis and his men, they are armed and against Sheppard. Therefore they are the bad guys and they are a threat. Do you consider them the good guys and completely harmless?

How about every modern war? You think allied troops would murder civilians for betraying their position to the enemy?

Actually, allied troops would murder civilians for much less. And they don't usually stop there. Even in wars as recent as "Operation Freedom", Canadian soldiers and civilians are killed because the US troopers "thought" they were the enemy. At times they simply opened fire despite not given the order.

The previous Iraq war, Operation Desert Storm also saw killing of civilians and allied soldiers.

In EVERY war, civilians are killed for no apparent reason. They are considered "collateral damages" and are rarely brought to light (unless you lost the war, then everyone knows the Holocaust).

Stop living in your naive fantasy world of "good guys don't kill civilians". Good guys are the guys who won, no matter how many innocent people they killed.

[jenks]

Yes. If you're a Wraith, the Atlantis expedition would be a thorn on your side. If you're Kolya (though I think he's dead now), you'd see Sheppard as the reason for your expulsion from your home.

No, they'd be your enemy, you're trying to use the two as synonyms, but they're not. Bad guy has negative connotations, and is by definition the 'immoral' side. In this case neither are, or both are.

Civilian + guns / weapons = militant. Ask ANY military personnel, they'll tell you the same. Even the police would consider any armed civilian a threat. That's why you NEVER raise a gun toward a police officer if you don't want to get shot.

The police don't consider an armed civilian to be a militant, nor do the military. Besides, Shep and his team have no jurisdiction there, they have no right to make such distinctions. As far as they are concerned they're just civilians, and Shep even knew full well that they weren't a threat. SG personnel have a mandate to stay out of political disputes on other worlds anyway, so either way he shouldn't have been getting involved, and he endangered himself and his team by doing so.

Armed combatants in a field of combat would be identified by their allegiance. Any military power within the war zone that is not identified as a friendly would automatically be a threat. Whether or not actions will be take against this threat is a different question. However in this case Gervis and his men, they are armed and against Sheppard. Therefore they are the bad guys and they are a threat. Do you consider them the good guys and completely harmless?

They're not combatants and they weren't against Sheppard, they wanted to hand the plague survives to the Wraith, Shep just took it upon himself to interfere.

Actually, allied troops would murder civilians for much less. And they don't usually stop there. Even in wars as recent as "Operation Freedom", Canadian soldiers and civilians are killed because the US troopers "thought" they were the enemy. At times they simply opened fire despite not given the order.

The previous Iraq war, Operation Desert Storm also saw killing of civilians and allied soldiers.

In EVERY war, civilians are killed for no apparent reason. They are considered "collateral damages" and are rarely brought to light (unless you lost the war, then everyone knows the Holocaust).

Whether the military would do that sort of thing is beside the point, the point is it would be morally reprehensible to do so.

Stop living in your naive fantasy world of "good guys don't kill civilians". Good guys are the guys who won, no matter how many innocent people they killed.

Stop jumping to conclusions.

[FallenAngelII]

How about every modern war? You think allied troops would murder civilians for betraying their position to the enemy?

Iraqi war; U.S. soldiers fired at ambulances because "insurgents had been known to hide in ambulances".

Needles to say, many civilians were harmed because of this either by direct death or by the stalling of their arrival at medical facilities. Don't think soldiers in modern wars haven't done horrible things to civilians on the mere suspicion that they might be enemy fighters.

[MIZA]

yeah i think John had did a pretty good thing , what do you think that guy was going to do when he got out of jail "forget the whole thing" Nope ! so i believe John made the decision of him or us(them)?

[Zamboni]

No, they'd be your enemy

What are you talking about? My enemy? I don't exist in the fictitious world of Stargate. Wraith are the enemies of the humans and vice versa. Wraith are the bad guys from the human's point of view and vice versa. What, you think the Wraith recognize themselves as the "bad guy"?

The police don't consider an armed civilian to be a militant, nor do the military. Besides, Shep and his team have no jurisdiction there, they have no right to make such distinctions.

Well then why don't you stroll down a police station waving a gun? Let's see if they treat you like a harmless "civilian".

And if you think Shep shouldn't act in place where he has "no jurisdiction", then perhaps you should stop watching the show. Stargate has ALWAYS been about humans venturing out and staking their jurisdiction and values upon the GALACTIC SOCIETY.

They're not combatants and they weren't against Sheppard

Yes... They're just civilized simple folk who like to point guns at people for fun.

How about every modern war? You think allied troops would murder civilians for betraying their position to the enemy?

Whether the military would do that sort of thing is beside the point

Then why did you bring it up? Do you just bring up points you think can help your argument, then say it's "beside the point" when you realize they don't?

Stop jumping to conclusions.

That wasn't a conclusion. It was a suggestion. Judging the actions of other from some moral high ground without considering the situation and the availability of options is irresponsible.

[jenks]

What are you talking about? My enemy? I don't exist in the fictitious world of Stargate. Wraith are the enemies of the humans and vice versa. Wraith are the bad guys from the human's point of view and vice versa. What, you think the Wraith recognize themselves as the "bad guy"?

I doubt the Wraith would use such a crude distinction. You keep trying to use bad guy and enemy as if they mean the same thing, but they don't, I don't know how to make that any clearer. The word 'enemy' has no ethical connotation, 'bad guy' does.

Well then why don't you stroll down a police station waving a gun? Let's see if they treat you like a harmless "civilian".

I never said they would.

And if you think Shep shouldn't act in place where he has "no jurisdiction", then perhaps you should stop watching the show. Stargate has ALWAYS been about humans venturing out and staking their jurisdiction and values upon the GALACTIC SOCIETY.

Get some perspective, we're talking about the moral implication of what Shep is doing, it has nothing to do with what I do and don't want to see in the show. In fact I welcome character flaws like this, I just with they were acknowledged on the show in some way.

Yes... They're just civilized simple folk who like to point guns at people for fun.

They have every right to point a gun at him, he's on their land interfering with he running of their society. I'm surprised you'd mention how civilized they are, given that Shep murders them in cold blood later in the episode...

Then why did you bring it up? Do you just bring up points you think can help your argument, then say it's "beside the point" when you realize they don't?

We're discussing the morality of Shep's actions, I gave a comparable hypothetical situation in order to convey how wrong what Shep did was. The point is obviously that, and not whether troops might actually do it, because that's irrelevant.

That wasn't a conclusion. It was a suggestion. Judging the actions of other from some moral high ground without considering the situation and the availability of options is irresponsible.

Why would you suggest that I stop living in a 'naive fantasy world' if you hadn't already come to the conclusion that I am?

[Mitchell82]

I think it was pretty messed up of the team to use that dude(the one who tried to turn the people over to the wraith) to lure the wraith into a trap, and then blow him up.....even if the guy was guilty, he was still acting for what he thought was good for the village.....does anyone else think this was wrong?

Well it was kind of cruel and unusual punishment however sometimes you have to sacrifice a few lives in order to save others.