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    #46
    Oh I know he can dish it and take it. What I just was re-reading is that a lot of people are upset that John's intelligence was being questioned and that Rodney was being a jerk or Daniel was being a jerk at John's expense. I just see it as Rodney, from what we can guess, assume, or extrapolate is that he does not like it when people don't use their brains (I.E. Jeanie staying at home raising Madison) and KNOWING that John is smart enough to be in Mensa, and it just annoys Rodney that John refuses to join (IDK that for sure) I guess that was just a roundabout way of Rodney calling John a dumbacc.

    As for TPTB I have no use for them. IMO TPTB have ruined this show.
    Why did you do such a thing, you mediocre dunces?

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      #47
      Originally posted by Ripple in Space View Post
      Shep is technically a genius, but guys like Rodney & Daniel are smarter than Einstein or Hawking.
      Marty Stu much? I'm thoroughly sick of Rodney. It's unfortunate that his mindset is so deeply intertwined with the writers' mentality.
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        #48
        Originally posted by Ncc-72452 View Post
        I think you misunderstand the point, or at least the point from my perspective. I TOTALLY don't mind John and Rodney making jabs at each other. My point is that in the behind the scenes of Season 4, certain Powers That Be stated that they've been trying to get a Mensa gag in for a long time because "Nobody believes that he could have gotten into Mensa," or something along those lines.

        I don't see the crack so much as Rodney against John, but the writers poking fun at an early aspect of the character that they thought didn't work. I think that it did work. To me, it didn't make a lot of sense, like if Ronald MacDonald poked fun at french fries. I'd be left dumbfounded saying, "but I like your fries." They were poking fun at a part of the character that I thought worked.

        I certainly didn't mean to imply that John can dish it but not take it.
        That was also my complaint. Having listened to the commentary where the Mensa remark was made and then seeing the snickering about it on screen, I was doubly ticked off. IMHO there has been in the last few seasons a subtle need to knock Sheppard off his hero perch. The reasons are unknown and baffling. After all TPTB set him up as the hero, made him intelligent and portrayed him in those respects for the better part of 3 years. Now suddenly we get these little digs and OOC comments from other characters. It's annoying for John fans and obviously open to interpretation for non-John fans.

        Originally posted by Silverwings View Post
        Marty Stu much? I'm thoroughly sick of Rodney. It's unfortunate that his mindset is so deeply intertwined with the writers' mentality.
        Precisely. But evidently they think it makes him look superior by tearing down his friends to outsiders. The banter between John and Rodney is enjoyable and realistic. But it takes on a mean edge when outsiders are involved. And I thought the lemon scene in Pegasus Project was tacky also.
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          #49
          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
          That was also my complaint. Having listened to the commentary where the Mensa remark was made and then seeing the snickering about it on screen, I was doubly ticked off. IMHO there has been in the last few seasons a subtle need to knock Sheppard off his hero perch. The reasons are unknown and baffling. After all TPTB set him up as the hero, made him intelligent and portrayed him in those respects for the better part of 3 years. Now suddenly we get these little digs and OOC comments from other characters. It's annoying for John fans and obviously open to interpretation for non-John fans.



          Precisely. But evidently they think it makes him look superior by tearing down his friends to outsiders. The banter between John and Rodney is enjoyable and realistic. But it takes on a mean edge when outsiders are involved. And I thought the lemon scene in Pegasus Project was tacky also.
          I am also baffled by the need to "take Sheppard down a notch." Although during last season and this one there have been quite a few characterizations that don't really make sense to me.
          The writers seem not to really like the Sheppard character that much. He is there, because every show needs its' handsome hero, but they would much rather give all the good stuff to Rodney, with whom they identify.
          I always loved the Rodney/John show, but they have ditched that in favor of giving Rodney his love relationship with the beautiful girl. I see that as the writers fantasy.
          They throw in the odd moment here and there (The Shrine was a brilliant John and Rodney ep) but then ignore that to show us Rodney dissing his best friend in First Contact.
          They have done a similar thing to Zelenka. To me he was always a sweet, quirky character, but they are making him out to be kind of creepy (Trio, Quarantine).
          Come to think about it, the writers are messing with all of Rodney's relationships with the other characters, in order to further his relationship with Keller. He disses Shep, he is in competition with Ronon, Zelenka is a wierdo. Geez, now I can't stand Keller cause of this!
          And I'm now totally off-topic.
          I'll go now.....

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            #50
            Originally posted by Ncc-72452 View Post
            I don't see the crack so much as Rodney against John, but the writers poking fun at an early aspect of the character that they thought didn't work. I think that it did work. To me, it didn't make a lot of sense, like if Ronald MacDonald poked fun at french fries. I'd be left dumbfounded saying, "but I like your fries." They were poking fun at a part of the character that I thought worked.
            The feeling that the writers were having fun at Sheppard's expense is why that scene didn't work for me - even before it was confirmed that this was their intent. I agree that Sheppard the smart "jock" worked, but apparently the boys in the back room no longer like this aspect of Sheppard's character and decided to change it even though this change contradicts what we've seen over the years.

            Originally posted by Silverwings View Post
            Marty Stu much? I'm thoroughly sick of Rodney. It's unfortunate that his mindset is so deeply intertwined with the writers' mentality.
            Yep, Rodney is indeed a Marty Stu because he is clearly the writers' favorite male character. Unfortunately, their refusal to stop living vicariously through Rodney has harmed both the character and the series, IMO.

            Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
            That was also my complaint. Having listened to the commentary where the Mensa remark was made and then seeing the snickering about it on screen, I was doubly ticked off. IMHO there has been in the last few seasons a subtle need to knock Sheppard off his hero perch. The reasons are unknown and baffling. After all TPTB set him up as the hero, made him intelligent and portrayed him in those respects for the better part of 3 years. Now suddenly we get these little digs and OOC comments from other characters. It's annoying for John fans and obviously open to interpretation for non-John fans.
            Since Season 2, I've also noticed this need by the writers to knock Sheppard down a bit and I'm as baffled as you are as to why. For some reason, the writers have tried to strip Sheppard of any semblance of complexity and seem determined to limit him to the hero who saves the day - period.

            Instead, all their energy seems to go into delving into what makes Rodney ticks, even if this means repeating storylines for the character. For instance, did we really need to see Tao of Rodney 2 (aka The Shine), especially when the other characters have yet to get a Tao 1 episode?

            Although The Shrine had some very good moments, it's not an episode I would be interested in watching in its entirely again anytime soon because it had too much of a 'been there, done that' feel.

            Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
            Precisely. But evidently they think it makes him look superior by tearing down his friends to outsiders. The banter between John and Rodney is enjoyable and realistic. But it takes on a mean edge when outsiders are involved. And I thought the lemon scene in Pegasus Project was tacky also.
            I agree that the lemon scene in the Pegasus Project was also mean spirited because outsiders were involved and I didn't understand why the writers included it.

            Originally posted by Lucylee View Post
            I am also baffled by the need to "take Sheppard down a notch." Although during last season and this one there have been quite a few characterizations that don't really make sense to me.
            The writers seem not to really like the Sheppard character that much. He is there, because every show needs its' handsome hero, but they would much rather give all the good stuff to Rodney, with whom they identify.
            I always loved the Rodney/John show, but they have ditched that in favor of giving Rodney his love relationship with the beautiful girl. I see that as the writers fantasy.
            They throw in the odd moment here and there (The Shrine was a brilliant John and Rodney ep) but then ignore that to show us Rodney dissing his best friend in First Contact.
            They have done a similar thing to Zelenka. To me he was always a sweet, quirky character, but they are making him out to be kind of creepy (Trio, Quarantine).
            Come to think about it, the writers are messing with all of Rodney's relationships with the other characters, in order to further his relationship with Keller. He disses Shep, he is in competition with Ronon, Zelenka is a wierdo. Geez, now I can't stand Keller cause of this!
            And I'm now totally off-topic.
            I'll go now.....
            I agree that these writers don't seem to like Sheppard much and that they appear to identify too much with Rodney. And, I also agree that they seem to have it in for Zelenka too. Why? Who knows, but for some reason, they suddenly have the need to make Sheppard and Zelenka look bad and I wish I knew why because these character changes are too jarring to be believable.

            This kind of poorly planned, juvenile, I'll-change-it-because-I-can type of writing is why I won't be watching SGU. I have no interest in wasting time on another series where these writers shove their favorites front and center over and over and then either wallpaper the other characters and/or make them look bad. No thanks.
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              #51
              I agree. The John that we saw in Search and Rescue is very different from the John we saw in Rising. In Search and Rescue, he is the extreme version of the hero stereotype. Deathly injured yet valiantly pushing on to save his friends, except that the only thing that he did of any consequence was hold Teyla's baby in the Dart. Awwww... How unnecessary.

              In Rising, we see the same drive to go and save his friends, but lo and behold, he is actually intelligent about it. He doesn't just act, he thinks. After a prompting from Weir, he finds something that gives them the necessary tactical edge that they need, and his presence is quite necessary.

              So, I don't know what's happened. It's the same writers, but perhaps they've grown complacent over the years, or maybe writing so many stories over the years is taking a toll, or perhaps my own perceptions have changed or are in some way biased... It's just that I'm not as entertained by the characters as I used to be.

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                #52
                Inconsistency is these writers first, middle and last names! I don't even think "THEY" know the characters anymore or if they even did!
                Why did you do such a thing, you mediocre dunces?

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                  #53
                  I took the thing as "This is soooooooo beyond Mensa, so what the hell are you doing in this room? Get out while we, the real brainiacs, are working on it."


                  In Window of Opportunity, even Jack, who is very much like Sheppard, smart but hiding it, had to learn Ancient with Daniel and Teal'c... He could do it too, so... No reason why that jab at Shep was necessary.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by GoSpikey View Post
                    I took the thing as "This is soooooooo beyond Mensa, so what the hell are you doing in this room? Get out while we, the real brainiacs, are working on it."


                    In Window of Opportunity, even Jack, who is very much like Sheppard, smart but hiding it, had to learn Ancient with Daniel and Teal'c... He could do it too, so... No reason why that jab at Shep was necessary.
                    I think it's kind of sad in a way, because even when McKay was loosing his intelligence in The Shrine, Shep said he'd stick with him till the end. But here it appears Rodney takes the first opportunity he has to belittle someone who he should consider his best friend.
                    They do snark at each other quite a bit, so I am still hoping that it was just a good natured jab on Rodney's part, because otherwise it kind of diminishes his character, IMHO.
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                      #55
                      Being pedantic I know folks... but it is spelt "craic" not "crack"


                      Anyhow, 'tis all just harmless needle between McKay and Sheppard, no harm done.



                      Zalenka just didn't have time to think about how he would "dumb it down" - given a few more seconds he did sort of manage.

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                        #56
                        Do people forget Sheppard in "Pegasus Project". In that episode Sheppard acted ALOT worse to McKay than McKay has ever been to Sheppard.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by ykickamoocow View Post
                          Do people forget Sheppard in "Pegasus Project". In that episode Sheppard acted ALOT worse to McKay than McKay has ever been to Sheppard.
                          We talked about this earlier and agreed that we hate that lemon scene equally with the scene in FC. It still doesn't make it right. And speaking only for myself, I understand the guy ribbing between John and Rodney. But the snickering about John's Mensa qualification between Rodney and Daniel seemed excessive.

                          Also, again, my personal temper was riled because of the comments on commentaries that indicate at least one writer thinks it's beyond belief that anyone would think Sheppard had Mensa level intelligence. Then said writer proceeds to add sly little digs to the script to prove that opinion. Not all viewers pay as close attention to John as some of us and may have missed the change in attitude toward his character over the last couple of seasons.

                          If you disagree, just chalk it up to a difference in perception.
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                            #58
                            I've rewatched First Contact yesterday, and I still didn't care much for the Mensa thing, but Zelenka's 'dumb it down' wasn't that bad, really, he said it in an innocent way, especially since speed was of the essence. It's just John that had a reaction to it as it was the second person in an hour, or a few hours, to say such a thing to him.

                            In Loving Memory of Wraithlord.

                            I wish I got to know you better.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by lcshepp View Post
                              I wasn't happy either with the McKay/Daniel and Zelenka comments. But it was Sheppard that thought of the shield to protect the gate. I can't help but think though that in the 'Lost Tribe' that John will have his revenge. I don't think he'll shove it in their faces but hopefully all involved will realize what has happened.

                              It is interesting though that the writers had Sheppard being 'mensa' material and having the strongest ATA gene ever in the beginning but have never really acted alot on either story line. At a Van Con I asked Martin Gero about why the writers hadn't expanded more on Sheppard's ATA compabilities and his response was that alot of people were getting the gene artifially now that they didn't want "to explore that mythology anymore". Someone interrupted us and I wasn't able to ask more.

                              Whether you like the character or not there has been alot written on him that has never been explored. Mainly the ATA gene. Waste or not, it's all in everyone's opinion of course. The gene story would have been better than some of the stories written.
                              I also thought it came out mean spirited and the scene with Zelenka could have been done a little different as several others have suggested. Anyway, I was surprised to learn that there won't be an exploration into this side of Sheppard who has the strongest ATA gene (please no one mentions The Tower, I cringed) and has tested for MENSA. I think it would've generated more interesting stories too. I feel disappointed that they've decided to go differently with a character after setting some foundation back from Season 1. I remember before, I was waiting for an episode where Rodney's gene would only operate few systems in an Ancient lab and the rest lay dormant because it needed a natural carrier to fully activate it or they visited a planet (searching for another ZPM, ancient weapon etc), that unknowingly had traps for Ancient/ ATA gene carriers alike. I can imagine the skeletons laying around the ground with Rodney torn between ZPM curiosity and self preservation.

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                                #60
                                I think that it's good character banter. There are a lot of times when McKay and Sheppard are trading insults.

                                And with Radek I don't see what he said as that bad. Sure it pointed out that Radek was much smarter than Sheppard but if he wants to understand what the scientists are doing then it's going to have to get dumbed down. Also whenever we see McKay trying to explain something technically to Sheppard he stands there looking stupid until it gets dumbed down anyway.

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