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    Originally posted by maxbo View Post
    Regarding The Seed, are you saying that you don't believe Ronon would have done that for anyone else? If so, then I strongly disagree because Ronon has never hesitated to put his life on the line for anyone in Atlantis. He even said as much to Sam last season.
    No, I am merely stating that the way he did it was significant. Granted Ronon has always been a bit reckless but he doesn't act this, dare I say, stupid except when wraith are involved, a person he cared about betrayed him, or someone who is important to him is in danger. The only other time he acted like this without the cause being one of the previously mentioned exceptions is in the beginning when he was adjusting to living on Atlantis. Though wraith don't affect him like they used to anymore. Either then that he has proven himself to be a clear thinking warrior capable of some semblance of self-control. In this ep we have him jumping to do anything that has the potential to save Jen. He couldn't even give the others five minutes to think of a better plan before he started shooting and chopping. It shows how important Jen has become to him. Besides nothing has been stated or showed that prove his feelings have changed. So as viewers we have no choice but to believe he still feels the same.

    No, it's not a safe bet that they understand their characters better than the audience and I'm not willing to give them a pass just because they created these characters. No, I expect these men to behave like professional writers and not like newbies writing bad fanfic. I expect them to have character bibles for each character and then work from those when crafting storylines.

    Our interpretations are only wrong because TPTB have an appalling tendency to change their characters to feed their plots. That's not understanding their characters - that's called not giving a damn about their characters because they only see them in terms of which ones are their favorites.

    Unfortunately, their favorite characters get the same type of inconsistent writing as those not as favored. The only difference is that the favorites get a lot more screentime in which to be inconsistently written.
    Your operating under the assumption that they are changing their characters. We have no idea what their intentions were. We may have been interpreting the scenes they shared incorrectly, or tptb did a poor job of showing what they wanted their relationship to be all along. For all we know this is what they planned all along. Neither of us have proof to the contrary.

    Originally posted by Ripple in Space View Post
    I think the "character" is created by the writers, directors and actors. The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.
    No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.

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      Originally posted by Ripple in Space View Post
      I think the "character" is created by the writers, directors and actors. The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.
      I agree that the creation of a character is the collaboration of writer/actor/director. That's why I find it so unsettling when writers change directions for a character on a whim because it takes me out of the storyline and leads to an unacceptable disconnect for me.

      This is what happened in Tracker because Carl Binder said that Momoa played that scene exactly the way he (Carl Binder) believed it should be played, which is why I've been so critical about how little these writers appear to care about their characters.

      There are ways to dramatically change directions for characters that can work and work well, but writers can't just pull these changes out of their butts to do so. No matter how dramatic the change, there has to be some existing facts to build on. Unfortunately, I don't see that with these writers. There doesn't seem to be any sense of direction other than which characters they want to write for more.

      Even though I knew the writers wouldn't do a good job with this triangle, I was still holding out hope that they would at least try to keep the characters 'in-character' while crafting this storyline. Unfortunately, their lack of care has me feeling that I don't know, or care, about these characters. That's not good storytelling.


      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
      No, I am merely stating that the way he did it was significant. Granted Ronon has always been a bit reckless but he doesn't act this, dare I say, stupid except when wraith are involved, a person he cared about betrayed him, or someone who is important to him is in danger. The only other time he acted like this without the cause being one of the previously mentioned exceptions is in the beginning when he was adjusting to living on Atlantis. Though wraith don't affect him like they used to anymore. Either then that he has proven himself to be a clear thinking warrior capable of some semblance of self-control. In this ep we have him jumping to do anything that has the potential to save Jen. He couldn't even give the others five minutes to think of a better plan before he started shooting and chopping. It shows how important Jen has become to him. Besides nothing has been stated or showed that prove his feelings have changed. So as viewers we have no choice but to believe he still feels the same.
      So you don't believe he would have done that for anyone else? You believe that if it had been Teyla, Sheppard, Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, etc, that he wouldn't have cared as much - wouldn't have tried as hard? Based on what? When have we ever seen Ronon not do anything in his power for his team and for Atlantis?

      I saw those scenes with Keller as more about giving Keller more screen time than anything else because Keller had a lot of screentime in general. If TPTB were truly going for ship moments then they did a lousy job, IMO, because I was blindsided by Quarantine. I saw more so-called ship moments between Ronon and Teyla, Ronon and Sheppard, and even Ronon and McKay.

      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
      Your operating under the assumption that they are changing their characters. We have no idea what their intentions were. We may have been interpreting the scenes they shared incorrectly, or tptb did a poor job of showing what they wanted their relationship to be all along. For all we know this is what they planned all along. Neither of us have proof to the contrary.
      I'm not assuming anything because they *are* changing the characters and I'm not going to buy into these changes just because the writers made them. I detest that kind of lazy writing and will not give it a pass. If they wanted this triangle then they should have given it more thought and figured out how to write it so that the characters were recognizable to me.

      What's the point of looking forward to seeing these characters in future storylines if they're going to be changed for the storyline?
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        Originally posted by Black Panther View Post

        No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.
        It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.
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          Originally posted by maxbo View Post
          So you don't believe he would have done that for anyone else? You believe that if it had been Teyla, Sheppard, Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, etc, that he wouldn't have cared as much - wouldn't have tried as hard? Based on what? When have we ever seen Ronon not do anything in his power for his team and for Atlantis?

          I saw those scenes with Keller as more about giving Keller more screen time than anything else because Keller had a lot of screentime in general. If TPTB were truly going for ship moments then they did a lousy job, IMO, because I was blindsided by Quarantine. I saw more so-called ship moments between Ronon and Teyla, Ronon and Sheppard, and even Ronon and McKay.
          John and Teyla most definitely! Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, or anyone else? Would he give his all to save them? Yes. Would he be completely irrational and reckless while doing it? No, he is not emotionally connected to them enough for it to cloud his judgement. Your also forgetting that before Quarantine he viewed Jennifer as a weakling who doesn't belong on Atlantis. A person who was only worth saving because she is a member of the expedition, and Ronon isn't the type to abandon a person in need. After Quarantine they now have him fighting for her as if she is one of his most important people. Up there with John and Teyla. That is a significant change don't you think?

          I'm not assuming anything because they *are* changing the characters and I'm not going to buy into these changes just because the writers made them. I detest that kind of lazy writing and will not give it a pass. If they wanted this triangle then they should have given it more thought and figured out how to write it so that the characters were recognizable to me.

          What's the point of looking forward to seeing these characters in future storylines if they're going to be changed for the storyline?
          Prove it. Prove that they are indeed changing the characters. Not just proving your interpretations wrong.

          Originally posted by Lahela View Post
          It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.
          So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with? That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.

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            Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
            No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.
            Then Momoa's just a terrible actor.
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              Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
              So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with? That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.
              Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing!

              Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.
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                Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                John and Teyla most definitely! Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, or anyone else? Would he give his all to save them? Yes. Would he be completely irrational and reckless while doing it? No, he is not emotionally connected to them enough for it to cloud his judgement. Your also forgetting that before Quarantine he viewed Jennifer as a weakling who doesn't belong on Atlantis. A person who was only worth saving because she is a member of the expedition, and Ronon isn't the type to abandon a person in need. After Quarantine they now have him fighting for her as if she is one of his most important people. Up there with John and Teyla. That is a significant change don't you think?
                How was Ronon "irrational and reckless" in The Seed? He came across a road block, then stopped to ask what he should do next. When no one said anything, he said he would shoot. Then, when the others voiced their objections, he stopped again and asked if they had any better suggestions. When they didn't, he started shooting. So, how is that "irrational and reckless"?

                I get that you see ship where I don't, but what you seem to be forgetting is that it wasn't just Keller who was in danger in the The Seed, it was all of Atlantis. When Ronon reached that road block he knew the stakes were too high for him to turn back, especially, when no one had any better suggestions. By your own admission, Ronon would help anyone in need and all of Atlantis was in need. Besides, if he failed he knew that someone else would put himself in danger and he didn't want that.

                Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                Prove it. Prove that they are indeed changing the characters. Not just proving your interpretations wrong.
                Prove it? That's rather aggressive, but I'll answer anyway.

                In addition to what they're currently doing to Ronon, two more recent examples of their changing the characters willy nilly are their recent characterizations of Zelenka and Sheppard.

                Despite years of characterization to the contrary, suddenly, according to the writers, we're supposed to see Zelenka as a creepy guy that no one really likes and Sheppard is suddenly supposed to be a Mensa want-a-be who's lying about how he could have joined Mensa.

                My WFT! reaction to each those changes is the same as my WTF! reaction to Ronon and Keller in Quarantine, Rodney and Keller in Trio/The Shrine and Teyla suddenly not being able to fight or use her Wraith mind link in The Queen. In each case, there wasn't enough build up to make those events believable to me.

                I have other examples, but I'll stop there.

                Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with? That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.
                Originally posted by Lahela View Post
                Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing!

                Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.
                Lahela, I agree your interpretation of Jason's take on his part in this storyline. He's clearly mentioned that he's going to play it the way the writers want him to, yet he also cares about his character so I can see him using what ever bit of wiggle room he has to try to salvage Ronon during this mess by playing his role as ambiguously as possible.

                And, speaking of ambiguity, even the writers said that they have no idea where they're going with this triangle mess so if they don't know where it's going, then I don't blame Jason for using this ambiguity to his character's advantage.
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                  Yeah! My computer is back up and running! Let's see what I have missed.

                  Ripple in Space Then that is your opinion. I personally have no problem with the way Jason played that scene or interpreting it the way we are supposed to interpret it. This is your problem.

                  Originally posted by Lahela View Post
                  Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing!

                  Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.
                  You may not have intended it but it was implied. Ripple in Space said...
                  The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.
                  I reminded RIS that he doesn't know what was Jason's intent. You said in reply...
                  It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.
                  So what would you call it when an actor, due to his dislike of a ship, plays a scene in a way that it alters the original intent of the scene.

                  The only thing ambiguous about a love triangle is who will the person in the middle choose. Not if the people on the opposing sides are interested in the person in the middle. If one of the people on the opposing sides are not truly interested then it isn't a love triangle.

                  Originally posted by maxbo View Post
                  How was Ronon "irrational and reckless" in The Seed? He came across a road block, then stopped to ask what he should do next. When no one said anything, he said he would shoot. Then, when the others voiced their objections, he stopped again and asked if they had any better suggestions. When they didn't, he started shooting. So, how is that "irrational and reckless"?

                  I get that you see ship where I don't, but what you seem to be forgetting is that it wasn't just Keller who was in danger in the The Seed, it was all of Atlantis. When Ronon reached that road block he knew the stakes were too high for him to turn back, especially, when no one had any better suggestions. By your own admission, Ronon would help anyone in need and all of Atlantis was in need. Besides, if he failed he knew that someone else would put himself in danger and he didn't want that.
                  Let's take a look at that scene shall we? He asked what he should do and waited a total of 7 seconds for a reply. He then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna make a hole." As he pulls out his gun and charges it Carson tells him not to do it and starts to explain why. Ronon interrupting, "Does anyone have any better ideas?" He then waits a total of 15 seconds. John in the meantime, knowing there is no way they're going to stop him, comes up with an impromptu suicidal plan of his own to save both Jen and Ronon. Ronon bluntly says there is no other way through. Woosley briefly warns him that if he starts shooting he is going to have to move quickly. Ronon's reaction is to sarcasticly say, "Thanks for the advice!" He then starts shooting. The scene lasted for about half a minute in total. Yep, Ronon was completely rational and willing to let the others think up a plan.

                  What you seem to be forgetting is that Jen was the only one in immediate danger. They had evacuated that part of the city. In fact it was interesting how in the end they made it practically all about saving her. As Woosley said they had another option and that was to kill Jennifer. The only way the others would be in danger is if they let this go too far.

                  Prove it? That's rather aggressive, but I'll answer anyway.

                  In addition to what they're currently doing to Ronon, two more recent examples of their changing the characters willy nilly are their recent characterizations of Zelenka and Sheppard.

                  Despite years of characterization to the contrary, suddenly, according to the writers, we're supposed to see Zelenka as a creepy guy that no one really likes and Sheppard is suddenly supposed to be a Mensa want-a-be who's lying about how he could have joined Mensa.

                  My WFT! reaction to each those changes is the same as my WTF! reaction to Ronon and Keller in Quarantine, Rodney and Keller in Trio/The Shrine and Teyla suddenly not being able to fight or use her Wraith mind link in The Queen. In each case, there wasn't enough build up to make those events believable to me.

                  I have other examples, but I'll stop there.
                  What did you expect me to say? You said...
                  they *are* changing the characters
                  You can't make such declarations with out proof.

                  I have to say out of all the examples you could have chosen the fact you chose these ones suprise me. Where was it said that Zelenka is a creepy guy that no one likes? The only people who have a problem with him are Sam and Jen and they barely knew him. As for Rodney he has never given him much respect plus he was turning it into a contest as to who Sam liked better. Again who said John is a Mensa want-a-be? Rodney was teasing John like usual. Daniel knows nothing about John. As for Zelenka he doesn't even know about it.

                  Were you paying attention in Quarantine? Ronon explained that until then he thought Jennifer was a weak person who didn't belong on Atlantis. Jen obviously didn't know how to handle Ronon. As they got to know each other they discovered a mutual attraction between them. What about that is difficult to understand? Was it the near kiss you have a problem with? Let me remind you that we have never before seen how Ronon would react when faced with the opportunity to get some action from a girl he is attracted to. As for Jen we had never seen her in any romantic situation before. What happened in Trio we weren't to take seriously. Jen was merely trying to help Rodney get some experience with reading women. She even admitted in The Shrine she didn't think of it as a real date. Though the fact that Rodney took it as such isn't surprising. As for his love declaration we know for a fact that Rodney likes to jump into things when it comes to women. The way he acted with Sam, the way he took Elizabeth's "We love you" as "I love you" and wanted to have dinner with her, and not to mention his sudden plans to propose to Katie are a testament to that. As for the ep that showed he was indeed interested in her before this is The Seed. His worry over her and doing things for her he normally wouldn't do. It was pretty clear he liked her. Again no where was it said Teyla couldn't use her wraith abilities. She simply didn't use them. The reasons for that were never explained, but that doesn't mean she couldn't use them. As for losing in the hand to hand combat with the wraith she has never been able to defeat a wraith that way. Steve defeated her with little difficulty in Suspicion. Even Ronon couldn't manage it in Sateda. We have yet to see a human capable of defeating a wraith in hand to hand combat.

                  The fact is it will be extremely difficult to prove they are indeed changing the characters. To prove such a thing you would have to prove that your interpretation of scene A is indeed what the writers intended and that they had indeed altered that fact in scene B. The only way to do that is if you have some way to know the writers intent or there is a factual change. You know like Rodney being capable of eating lemon chicken without any problem.

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                    Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                    Y
                    So what would you call it when an actor, due to his dislike of a ship, plays a scene in a way that it alters the original intent of the scene.
                    I shall just roll my eyes in response because no matter what I say you are clearly intent on misinterpreting it
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                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      Let's take a look at that scene shall we? He asked what he should do and waited a total of 7 seconds for a reply. He then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna make a hole." As he pulls out his gun and charges it Carson tells him not to do it and starts to explain why. Ronon interrupting, "Does anyone have any better ideas?" He then waits a total of 15 seconds. John in the meantime, knowing there is no way they're going to stop him, comes up with an impromptu suicidal plan of his own to save both Jen and Ronon. Ronon bluntly says there is no other way through. Woosley briefly warns him that if he starts shooting he is going to have to move quickly. Ronon's reaction is to sarcasticly say, "Thanks for the advice!" He then starts shooting. The scene lasted for about half a minute in total. Yep, Ronon was completely rational and willing to let the others think up a plan..
                      But, the others weren't thinking up a plan because they had no idea what to do and Ronon realized this.

                      Where you're basing your contention that Ronon was irrational on the shortness of this scene, I'm basing my contention that he wasn't irrational on his demeanor, which I saw as determined to complete his mission, but not out of control. I've seen Ronon out of control before and didn't see that Ronon here.

                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      What you seem to be forgetting is that Jen was the only one in immediate danger. They had evacuated that part of the city. In fact it was interesting how in the end they made it practically all about saving her. As Woosley said they had another option and that was to kill Jennifer. The only way the others would be in danger is if they let this go too far.
                      No, Keller wasnt the only one in immediate danger because the one who had to get close enough to her to either save her or kill her would also be in immediate danger and there's no way Ronon would allow Rodney or Sheppard (in his weakened state) to volunteer for such a dangerous mission.


                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      What did you expect me to say? You said...

                      You can't make such declarations with out proof.
                      How about taking the novel approach of "asking" me why I feel the way I do instead of demanding that I prove why I feel the way I do.

                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      I have to say out of all the examples you could have chosen the fact you chose these ones suprise me. Where was it said that Zelenka is a creepy guy that no one likes? The only people who have a problem with him are Sam and Jen and they barely knew him. As for Rodney he has never given him much respect plus he was turning it into a contest as to who Sam liked better. Again who said John is a Mensa want-a-be? Rodney was teasing John like usual. Daniel knows nothing about John. As for Zelenka he doesn't even know about it.
                      The creepy Zelenka reference is a behind the scenes reference. Apparently, the writers have been wanting to add scenes like the Sam & Keller scenes for a while because they see Zelenka as a character that's not really liked. Well, that was news to me because if that was the writers' intent, then they missed the mark because I didn't and don't see it - despite Quarantine and Trio.

                      The John as the Mensa pretender was apparently mentioned in the Season 4 commentaries by one of the writers (Gero, I believe). Once again, I found myself wondering where that characterization came from because there has been nothing to support that Sheppard would give a damn about Mensa enough to lie about being able to become a member.

                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      Were you paying attention in Quarantine? Ronon explained that until then he thought Jennifer was a weak person who didn't belong on Atlantis. Jen obviously didn't know how to handle Ronon. As they got to know each other they discovered a mutual attraction between them. What about that is difficult to understand? Was it the near kiss you have a problem with? Let me remind you that we have never before seen how Ronon would react when faced with the opportunity to get some action from a girl he is attracted to. As for Jen we had never seen her in any romantic situation before. What happened in Trio we weren't to take seriously. Jen was merely trying to help Rodney get some experience with reading women. She even admitted in The Shrine she didn't think of it as a real date. Though the fact that Rodney took it as such isn't surprising. As for his love declaration we know for a fact that Rodney likes to jump into things when it comes to women. The way he acted with Sam, the way he took Elizabeth's "We love you" as "I love you" and wanted to have dinner with her, and not to mention his sudden plans to propose to Katie are a testament to that. As for the ep that showed he was indeed interested in her before this is The Seed. His worry over her and doing things for her he normally wouldn't do. It was pretty clear he liked her. Again no where was it said Teyla couldn't use her wraith abilities. She simply didn't use them. The reasons for that were never explained, but that doesn't mean she couldn't use them. As for losing in the hand to hand combat with the wraith she has never been able to defeat a wraith that way. Steve defeated her with little difficulty in Suspicion. Even Ronon couldn't manage it in Sateda. We have yet to see a human capable of defeating a wraith in hand to hand combat.
                      Yes, I did pay attention to Quarantine and I came to a different conclusion - imagine that.

                      I find this entire triangle/duo or whatever it's suppose to be badly written and a waste of time. Where you saw Ronon and Keller becoming closer before this episode, I saw two characters who barely interacted before they were thrown together in Quarantine and then barely interacted after Quarantine until Tracker.

                      Although the writers took a bit more time with Rodney and Keller, they also failed to make that pairing believable to me because they moved much too fast with them.

                      I find your Teyla comment puzzling because if Teyla doesn't use her wraith abilities when expected, then I want to know why. Teyla's abilities have been an important part of the character since the beginning so I expect an explanation when the writers don't use them when it would be logical for them to do so.

                      As for the hand-to-hand fighting, no Teyla has never defeated a full-wraith in hand-to-hand combat (although she did snap a hybrid's neck in Misbegotten), however, she did better against Steve (when she was fully human) than she did in The Queen, which I found unsettling. If there was a reason for this, other than lazy writing, then I want to know what it was because it put a damper on my enjoyment of that episode. It appeared to be too convenient that Teyla suddenly couldn't fight at all and didn't have either the Queen's mind abilities or even her normal wraith abilties.

                      Originally posted by Black Panther View Post
                      The fact is it will be extremely difficult to prove they are indeed changing the characters. To prove such a thing you would have to prove that your interpretation of scene A is indeed what the writers intended and that they had indeed altered that fact in scene B. The only way to do that is if you have some way to know the writers intent or there is a factual change. You know like Rodney being capable of eating lemon chicken without any problem.
                      It's not difficult for me to judge if the writers are changing the characters because I judge the characters in terms of their pattern of behavior over time. For instance, if their intent was to portray Zelenka as a creep, then they should have established this long before Quarantine & Trio and if they wanted to portray Sheppard as a Mensa want-a-be, then they should have made this clear long before Season 5. Otherwise, they should have left those ideas by the wayside and not tried to include them so late in the series.

                      With Teyla it appears that they don't want her to have wraith abilities this season - yet they've given no explanation why. That kind of change-at-will writing doesn't work for me, which is one reason why I'm not enjoying this season as much as I should.
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                        I know this thread is a bit old, but I just had to comment: it is amazing how many people interpret the same scene in different ways. This is why I enjoy a good forum .

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                          Hello,

                          Its rare that I re-watch an episode of stargate(any series) and hardly remember anything about it but ive just watched this one and its amazing..it was like watching it for the first time because I didnt remember any of it. The episode shows probably the best scene from the entire 5 series of atlantis of rodney kicking some wraith butt instead of just running away lol. Ok he did run away but he put up a blooming good fight concidering its rodney im talking about here lol. He even "stood up" to ronon at the end of the episode which again shows courage for rodney. I felt for ronon though when the runner led the wraith away through the stargate because you could see it in his eyes that he wanted to help the guy out.

                          This was a great episode and I recommend it to anyone planning on having an atlantis re-watch.

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                            I'm interpreting the scene differently than what a number of people said here. I expected him to ignore Rodney's outstretched hand but when he took it then smiled, I was a bit surprised. given his usual aloof I-don't-care-what-you-think attitude. However, I felt that smile was a genuine smile. It seems to me he still remembers that time when Rodney removed the scars on his back.

                            Also, I think these two characters are similar in the way that it takes a while for them to warm up to you, but when they do, they'll be true friends. They won't say it out loud to you, but you'll know when the going gets tough, they'll come and save you. I think that's how the relationship between the both of them are.

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