When the bloody hell did Carson...

[ciannwn]

Weir was an alternate reality Weir, point is, had original Beckett not died, and clone Beckett was found, would he have been treated like the real one? Certainly not.

'The Kindred 2' does indicate that many people involved in the Stargate program have a different perspective to the uninitiated back home. Beckett realised he could never see his mother again after Rodney pointed this out. Rodney and Sheppard, however, met two Weirs, an alternate Rodney and their Replicator copies plus the cloned Hermiod. If the original Beckett hadn't died so there were two of them it's likely they'd have had some counselling from Carter because she met the physically younger O'Neill clone who had all O'Neill's memories.

Fragile Balance Episode Guide

The duplicate O'Neill is provided for by the Air Force and decides to go back to high school, where he can show up his teachers and score with girls knowing what he knows now.

We have no idea what arrangements would have been made for the duplicate Beckett if the original hadn't died. Seeing as the original wasn't around any longer, though, Rodney and co. probably regarded a replacement Beckett in the same way as they'd have regarded a replacement Hermiod.

[Thunderbird 2]

So if Clone Carson is the same as Original Carson, then why are there 2 bodies? They are 2 DIFFERENT breathing sentient beings. Not only that but they are living Life in 2 different areas acquiring different memories. They have different brains and Consciousness's. Also Most of the memories of Clone Carson are not even his.

Its like saying you go to War and are killed in it, some of your friends make a clone of you and then they say you have came back to life. But your body is still in your grave?

The debate about weather Clone Carson is the same as the Original depends on what you believe makes a person who they are.

Just because some one is genetically identical does not make him the same. A clone has a different Consciousness then the original (Consciousness is hard to explain). If i created a Clone of me and gave him my memories he would still not be me. Because every second he is living he is gaining memories i dont have. Also we are expiring reality in 2 different places with different eyes and brains, etc.

PS: Sorry for the Rant

Oh thank God!! The fact the writers treat Clone Carson as the same as Doctor Beckett has really disapointed me. Its so good to read that someone else things the same way! Its like the re-jigging in Star Trek's transporters. I hate the whole "No ones dies in Sci Fi" concept. It totaly destroys the credibility of the genre. It would have been better if a parralel reality Beckett had been brought in to avoid this iritating contrivance. Halo, Thank you, green for you sir!

SPOILER ALERT! SGA Season 5 WHISPERS

Spoiler:

By the by, is Clone Carson still taking the injections? If so, how did he explain that to Mrs Beckett? Dr Beckett wasn't a diabetic as far as we know! I know that McKay says he was sick and is now cured, but this hasn't been tidied up? Have I missed something?

I promise I will shut up about this now!

[ciannwn]

The debate about weather Clone Carson is the same as the Original depends on what you believe makes a person who they are.

You've hit the nail on the head there - it all depends on what someone believes. In this case it all depends on what the Stargate characters involved believe. Meeting Replicator copies of themselves with all their memories up to the time that they were probed plus a copy of Weir as well would have made them start wondering just what it is that makes a person who they are if they hadn't been considering it already. Alternate reality Rodney wasn't 'their' Rodney but he was just as real. The changed timeline Weir was just as 'real' as their own one in spite of the age difference. Then there's the Asgard.

It would have been better if a parralel reality Beckett had been brought in to avoid this iritating contrivance.

OK. So Beckett dies in 'Sunday' and Michael doesn't make a clone.. A year or so later a parallel reality Beckett arrives. It turns out that he was captured by Michael and forced to help him with his experiments. Parrallel reality Beckett, therefore, has exactly the same memories as 'our' Beckett up to the events where he was captured by Michael. After that his memories are identical to those of the cloned Beckett.as far as helping Michael are concerned. The only real difference between parallel Beckett and clone Beckett is that the former isn't a clone. He's a parallel reality copy whose experiences diverged from 'our' Beckett's at a certain point in life. Would that make him a 'more real' Beckett than the cloned Beckett?

If the dream of some transhumanists is ever realised, humans will be facing this kind of philosophical issue in the real world. I'm going to put the following in spoiler tags to save inflicting a long post on people who aren't interested in such matters.

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism

Many believe in the compatibility of human minds with computer hardware, with the theoretical implication that human consciousness may someday be transferred to alternative media, a speculative technique commonly known as "mind uploading".

There are various ideas on how such uploading could be carried out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading

Some are based on simulations where the uploaded person is actually a copy of the original. I wouldn't bother with this myself because I can't see the point in having a copy of myself live on after I'm dead. I rather fancy this idea, though -

Another theoretically possible method of mind uploading from organic to inorganic medium, related to the idea described above of replacing neurons one at a time while consciousness remained intact, would be a much less precise but much more feasible (in terms of technology currently known to be physically possible) process of "cyborging". Once a given person's brain is mapped, it is replaced piece-by-piece with computer devices which perform the exact same function as the regions preceding them, after which the patient is allowed to regain consciousness and validate that there has not been some radical upheaval within his own subjective experience of reality. At this point, the patient's brain is immediately "re-mapped" and another piece is replaced, and so on in this fashion until, the patient exists on a purely hardware medium and can be safely extricated from the remaining organic body.

I'm currently produced by an organic brain. Would I still be me if I ended up being produced by computer hardware through the above method? Would I still be me if this computer hardware brain was then removed from my organic body and put into something else? As far as I'm concerned I'd still be the same basic me. Why stop at being the same basic me, though, if they could give me bits of hardware which would enable my replaced brain to be one that's capable of understanding quantum physics and provided the ability to paint pictures? I wouldn't want to be put in a clone of my current body either even if it was younger. I'd want to be tall and athletic and have better hair.

[haloplayer]

Oh thank God!! The fact the writers treat Clone Carson as the same as Doctor Beckett has really disapointed me. Its so good to read that someone else things the same way! Its like the re-jigging in Star Trek's transporters. I hate the whole "No ones dies in Sci Fi" concept. It totaly destroys the credibility of the genre. It would have been better if a parralel reality Beckett had been brought in to avoid this iritating contrivance. Halo, Thank you, green for you sir
------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the Complaint

[tombombadil]

does anyone remember original carson ever being extremely brave? i mean, he had his moments, yes....but he wasn't exactly the definition of courage was he? he freaked out whenever he got near the control chair.

[Cheystar]

I have to say, that I didn't like the way they wrote Carson in this episode. If this is how they would have written him in the past, I wouldn't have liked him as much as I do. So I'm shooting for the next episode with Carson in it to be better written. I can't really pinpoint any one thing, cause there was a couple of better moments, but all-in-all, for the general episode, he didn't hit me as the Carson I really enjoy watching.

[Thunderbird 2]

OK. So Beckett dies in 'Sunday' and Michael doesn't make a clone.. A year or so later a parallel reality Beckett arrives. It turns out that he was captured by Michael and forced to help him with his experiments. Parrallel reality Beckett, therefore, has exactly the same memories as 'our' Beckett up to the events where he was captured by Michael. After that his memories are identical to those of the cloned Beckett.as far as helping Michael are concerned. The only real difference between parallel Beckett and clone Beckett is that the former isn't a clone. He's a parallel reality copy whose experiences diverged from 'our' Beckett's at a certain point in life. Would that make him a 'more real' Beckett than the cloned Beckett?

]

I am not arguing the moral aspects, (A human, is a human, is a human, regarless how they cqme into being, ie I agree with you there). I am simply saying from my perspective, introducing a parallel reality version of Beckett would have been better from a writing and story standpoint, than the somewhat duff narrative ground the clone plotline has taken. - At least with a parallel reality we could have had some insight and backstory, showing a different history and experiences from a different Atlantis, and an explanation for how a second Beckett could be very different in behaviours and attitude from the original such as his childhood or career. Instead of being partially reprogrammed by Michael, and having no actual history? Anything Clone Carson says or does could be automatically dismissed by the fact he is a partially programmed clone. He's quoting someone elses long term memories! - Its a potential get out of jail free card for the writers.
In fact, its the disregard for the fact Clone Carson is a new, different person, with potentially different traits from Dr Beckett that makes this plotline so weak.

[ciannwn]

I am simply saying from my perspective, introducing a parallel reality version of Beckett would have been better from a writing and story standpoint, than the somewhat duff narrative ground the clone plotline has taken. -

It would have required a very good reason as to why this parallel Beckett couldn't be sent back to his own reality. Having a clone probably made it easier to avoid what they did with Janet Fraiser - kill off doctor, parallel version makes a guest appearance for one story.

[Thunderbird 2]

Which brings me back to my original question...

SPOILER ALERT! SGA Season 5 WHISPERS

Spoiler:

Is Clone Carson still taking the injections? If so, how did he explain that to Mrs Beckett? Dr Beckett wasn't a diabetic as far as we know! I know that McKay says he was sick and is now cured, but this hasn't been tidied up?

Or have I missed something?

[jelgate]

Your assuming he has been allowed to see his mother

[PG15]

There was the reference to reunions...

I thought he doesn't need injections anymore after he was "cured" in The Seed.

[Ellaneshka]

but clone carson also was prisoner under micheal's control for over a year. Micheal had put some changes in him. Clone Carson could NOT shot Micheal even when he wanted too.

He's not the same man as the real carson. Just a cheap knock off...like the generic drugs I get from my pharmacy. Sure, the generic does the same as the name brand but works in a totally different way. Is composed differently than the name brand and has different inert ingredients.

Clone Carson is still a clone that has certain programs established by Micheal in him.

He's not the real deal and will not act like Real Carson. He's the generic.

Rodney thinks he is real enough, and that's good enough for me!