Universe proving unpopular? Got any better ideas?

[Bareassedmunky]

I am not actually too down on universe, but I am concerned that mgm and sci-fi are trying to cash in on the series and are going to taint the spirit of the franchise (the use of the words 'mainstream', 'younger audiences', 'younger characters' and 'less tech' sound like selling out to me) as such, there will probably be a fourth series starting in 2011. So I think a discussion on what form that would take is in order.



SG-1 worked because it was set on contempory earth, which made it unique in space exploration sci-fi (i.e. same realm as star trek rather than x-files). Some of the writing in the early seasons was awful - what ever happened to the giant aliens in crystal skull - they were too powerful to be our allies, so we forgot about them, that would never happen in later seasons. The setting of Atlantis wasn't so good, it felt too much like any other sci-fi, but it was good writing that made it work. I fear universe will have a bad setting, and I hope the writing will hold it up. I think they should go back to earth for the fourth series.

My suggestion is a big departure from the sg-1/atlantis formula, but after 15 seasons of them the storylines need to revolve around things other than exploration and futile battles against all odds (they were great, but it's needs to change before it gets repetitive). People complain about how we are too strong now (beam weapons, asgard core, etc) so the only way to deal with this without rewriting the past is to accept it, and start dealing with problems other than goa'uld/ori levels of difficult enemies.

The lucian alliance could make a good enemy if handled properly (they would need a better structured leadership), and there is no reason for the stargate programme to be secret as earth is longer under constant peril. We could set up colonies on other planets, trade with other worlds, and make politics and social implications of the new galactic order a much larger part of the show. Stories could have a feel like 'ties that bind', with humans starting to take their (rightful?) place as the dominant species.

Like daniel said, the petty quarrels of your world will seem so small when compared to what is happening out there. This sentiment could be a springboard for satiring our problems (international and intercultural) on earth in much the same way as the goa'uld and ori were used to satire concepts of faith and abuse of religion. The jaffa nation could be used to satire the tenancy of traditionalism to limit social progression. I see the stars of the show being people like the president and head of the military - the decision makers rather than the front line people. Front line people would take more of a secondary role (think major lorne, dr fraiser, dr zelenka).



As this suggestion moves away from the exploration/big bad enemy formula that has made stargate so popular, people won't like it, but i do and that's all that counts.

[CrazyCarter]

I too am worried. I'm never one to judge a book by it's cover, but surely that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my speculation. I'll give "universe" a shot I loved Sg-1, so I'd love to see more stories set in this universe. I've nothing against that, but I would like to see more "Stargate" not something new "in" Stargate.

SG-1 worked because it was set on contempory earth, which made it unique in space exploration sci-fi (i.e. same realm as star trek rather than x-files). Some of the writing in the early seasons was awful - what ever happened to the giant aliens in crystal skull - they were too powerful to be our allies, so we forgot about them, that would never happen in later seasons. The setting of Atlantis wasn't so good, it felt too much like any other sci-fi, but it was good writing that made it work. I fear universe will have a bad setting, and I hope the writing will hold it up. I think they should go back to earth for the fourth series.

I completly agree. That's why I didn't really like Atlantis. The "modern day" element is what set Stargate apart from most sci-fi; and what made Sg-1, well, Sg-1. I understand and respect what they're trying to do; which is show that as the Stargate program grows there's more potential for traveling, but I don't think they are handling in the right way at all. Unlike Star Trek, Stargate was about story arcs. It was about the growth of character and relationships and the universe (and planet Earth) as a whole. It wasn't about exploring a new planet each week (Star Trek) or telling neat individual stories (Twilight Zone). It had some episodes like that, but even then the episodes were always progressing forward. Most of the stand alones received sequels of some kind. A great chunk of them turned into arcs. Heck, we got Daniel's replacement Jonas from one of them. Sg-1's stand alones were never truly alone, and were certainly not about what Universe sounds like it's going to be about. It's true Universe can work arcs into it, but still it'd feel like they'd be "Stargate Universe's arcs" - and this is important - IN BETWEEN - it's normal episodes. It just won't really be Stargate if it turns out to be the way it's being described.

[Grinspoon]

What greatly improved atlantis was getting in contact with earth again, adding that more familiar element. Get earth space ships there ect.. It seems this change which improved Atlantis is being cut off with Universe. It seems they are forgetting there are some huge similarities in premise between this and atlantis. Trapped, other galaxy, no way home, on their own surrounded by Ancient technology. This time in a spaceship that i assume has full power and isn't a city, so it flies around.

The premise with no earth, is actually killing the story that started with SG1, which did continue through Atlantis after sg1s departure. I'd rather they tried some sort of amalgamation of atlantis, sg1, and then some new elements. Even if they set it on an Earth ship, a 305. something better than we've seen. Deep space exploration. I would even go as far as say, set it a head 10 years or so if need be. A little jump in time to explain some better technology, but not all alien and crystals and stuff.

As i wrote in the Universe thread, i say they should do a big retooling of atlantis. Give them power, a better earth spaceship, have them lost again, or them on some mission to a new galaxy. Some new chracters ect. The concepts are so similar, and we know for sure one works.

It could be good, but it seems more as if its a new sci-fi show, as its removing the essence of what set stargate apart. sg1 and atlantis currently do everything star trek could do and more. There's such variety to the devices that can be used to construct a story. Stuck on a ship.. eh not so much.

[madd4the24]

Actually, I'm really pleased with the deciscion to set SGU on a ship. It limits the ability to call for help, forces the characters to be resourceful, and allows for deeper character development, not to mention character centric episodes. That's not the problem I have with SGU.

I'm simply worried about having eight (or less) people stuck on a ship, and that being it. The plot blurb provided said the SG team investigating the ship would be the ones stuck on it, so unless SG teams suddenly consist of a hundred or so people, I'm worried about the lack of red shirts and the ability for the main characters to interact with the minor ones. I mean how many of us love and adore Walter and Radek? Davis and Chuck? Imagine a series without them.

I'm also worried about the younger audience SG is trying to target. I think it's ridiculous to imagine this is going to turn into The OC or OTH or even Bev Hills, but I like that each Stargate series has always had really dark undertones, where main characters aren't always doing the right thing, and arguable unethiclly sound things. That'll have to be cut to make it more family appropriate, or if they want younger viewers to stay interested.

Meh, there are a million other concerns I have about the series, but we know so little at this point, I think most of us are letting our anger over the cancelation of SGA get the best of us. I suggest we broach this topic again when there is new information.

[CrazyCarter]

I'm simply worried about having eight (or less) people stuck on a ship, and that being it. The plot blurb provided said the SG team investigating the ship would be the ones stuck on it, so unless SG teams suddenly consist of a hundred or so people, I'm worried about the lack of red shirts and the ability for the main characters to interact with the minor ones. I mean how many of us love and adore Walter and Radek? Davis and Chuck? Imagine a series without them.

Interesting. I actually think this is probably for the better. With the 'red shirts' so to speak, you have a lot of nameless crew members - and in of itself this is not bad - but writers in TV often abuse this resource. Anything is suddenly possible and too many 'big battles' and silly things occur. ST Voyager had a problem with too many crew members - it always felt like they had enough people and never were low on anything.

Since it's an Ancient ship, and was designed to seed Stargates automatically, it's easily assumable that the ship for the most part runs itself. Meaning, our 8 characters will only need to focus on two things: surviving - meaning food and such - and finding a shorter way home. I think this will help the story. Character driven stories often do a lot better with fewer characters. It could be really interesting to see these few characters build and maintain relationships while stuck in this endevour, rather then simply having tons of nameless people running around.

I'm also worried about the younger audience SG is trying to target. I think it's ridiculous to imagine this is going to turn into The OC or OTH or even Bev Hills, but I like that each Stargate series has always had really dark undertones, where main characters aren't always doing the right thing, and arguable unethiclly sound things. That'll have to be cut to make it more family appropriate, or if they want younger viewers to stay interested.

Exactly. This is why I think the show's going to suck. They're setting out not to create entertainment, not to write a compelling story, but to simply make money and maintain ratings. They said themselves they don't want to carry on the Stargate story, that they want this to be something "new." The show will more then likely not be rich in character as I described it could be earlier, but simply rich in drama - soap opera quality drama - to attract fans and ultimatley keep ratings up and make money. In other words, a big fat sell out.

Only time will tell, of course. I didn't like SGA anyway, so it's cancellation has had no affect on my opinion.

[madd4the24]

Since it's an Ancient ship, and was designed to seed Stargates automatically, it's easily assumable that the ship for the most part runs itself. Meaning, our 8 characters will only need to focus on two things: surviving - meaning food and such - and finding a shorter way home. I think this will help the story. Character driven stories often do a lot better with fewer characters. It could be really interesting to see these few characters build and maintain relationships while stuck in this endevour, rather then simply having tons of nameless people running around.

My worry is that in order to keep the peril running high, or at least the audience from becoming bored with the same eight (for arugment's sake) characters, week after week, the team is going to need to encounter new civilizations and enemies in every episode, which could be overwhelming. Having more minor characters gives you free range to explor major character interactions, draw on socially produced dramatic tension and really diversify or color a universe that let's face it, is going to be pretty bleak and gray.

I do see the benifit of a smaller cast, both economically for the production and for the characters themselves, but I have my worries about redundency occuring. Part of the charm of the SG universe is all the little people who make it possible for the big people to do their jobs. Or maybe I just like the one liners and red shirts. The may be a throwback to the good old Star Trek days, but it's a formula I like.

[Grinspoon]

Actually, I'm really pleased with the deciscion to set SGU on a ship. It limits the ability to call for help, forces the characters to be resourceful, and allows for deeper character development, not to mention character centric episodes. That's not the problem I have with SGU.

Don't you think in a way, it might be better if they were on an earth built ship lost. Yes more like voyager. Extremely like it, but a new more advanced earth spaceship, so it's all more sci-fi, better sets ect. Put in more of a naval vessel, aircraft carrier/submarine element to it. Then have them lost in space. Just to keep the more grounded in reality element. Then an all fanciful ancient ship, that all still works wonderfully, that they instantly know how to repair and fix. How much of Atlantis has dealt with learning old systems and ancient technology.

Have them more, trying to go unnoticed, trying to get home, but getting caught up in stuff. More cloak and dagger trying to get through the part of space, alive, while finding a way home.

[madd4the24]

Don't you think in a way, it might be better if they were on an earth built ship lost. Yes more like voyager. Extremely like it, but a new more advanced earth spaceship, so it's all more sci-fi, better sets ect. Put in more of a naval vessel, aircraft carrier/submarine element to it. Then have them lost in space. Just to keep the more grounded in reality element. Then an all fanciful ancient ship, that all still works wonderfully, that they instantly know how to repair and fix. How much of Atlantis has dealt with learning old systems and ancient technology.

Actually, I like them on an Ancient Ship. It means episodes where the team will be forced to confront their new enviroment and learn things they didn't know before. Being on an Ancient Ship bridges the old series into the new one for me.

Okay, but if I'm going to be completely honest, when tptb were hinting that SGU (still unnamed at the time) was going to be set on a ship, I did imagine it being an earth ship that maybe just got flung away from earth for some reason (like Voyager) or there was a time issue (like Andromeda). I didn't expect it to be an Ancient ship. Either way I'm happy, because I love lost in space kind of shows. I'm an SGA traditionalist, after all. I still to this day, believe they should have stayed cut off from earth for another three seasons or so.

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

I think that the fact that they are just along for the ride as far as where they go on this ship is concerned certainly will add a different element to stargate. As long as they dont completely get rid of that element after the first season i think it could b interesting to see them develope it. Idk I'm gonna give it a chance i mean worst case it sucks but It has some potential if done right.

[ciannwn]

I'm simply worried about having eight (or less) people stuck on a ship, and that being it. The plot blurb provided said the SG team investigating the ship would be the ones stuck on it, so unless SG teams suddenly consist of a hundred or so people, I'm worried about the lack of red shirts and the ability for the main characters to interact with the minor ones. I mean how many of us love and adore Walter and Radek? Davis and Chuck? Imagine a series without them.

I can't say I'm overjoyed at the thought of a very small number of people on this ship. One thing I've got fed up with where Stargate is concerned is having a lot of people around but the stories focussing on the same characters all through the series. Other shows have a very large number of main characters but you don't see everyone every single week (Lost, BSG, Heroes). If there's only about 8 characters we'll be stuck with all of them all of the time with just a passing alien to relieve the monotony.

I'm also wondering what kind of relationships we'll be getting. If it's going to work on the policy of 'no main character can have a romance which lasts longer than a few weeks' a small number of people are soon going to run out of prospective partners. The only alternative will be characters falling in love with people they meet on various planets and the beloveds always having a reason as to why they can't join the crew - eg. They're leaders of their tribes so are needed back at home or they've sadly expired by the end of the story.

I'm also worried about the younger audience SG is trying to target.

I'm particularly worried over the possibility that 'younger audience' really means adolescent boys. The main purpose of any female character will then be to show off her charms by wearing low cut tops and/or uniforms one size too small. Vala is one of my favourite Stargate characters because her revealing dress sense is a part of her outrageous and complex personality, not the main aspect of it.

[madd4the24]

I'm also wondering what kind of relationships we'll be getting. If it's going to work on the policy of 'no main character can have a romance which lasts longer than a few weeks' a small number of people are soon going to run out of prospective partners. The only alternative will be characters falling in love with people they meet on various planets and the beloveds always having a reason as to why they can't join the crew - eg. They're leaders of their tribes so are needed back at home or they've sadly expired by the end of the story.

... I hadn't even considered the possibility of Stargate: The Love Boat.

[Grinspoon]

So no one else sick of the constant reliance on ancient technology? It's the whole get out of jail move. Ummm damn this needs some clever thinking.. oh well we'll give them ancient technology that can do anything. I'd rather they got back to the human aspect of doing stuff. Just enhanced with the ancient/alien technology.

[Flyboy]

So no one else sick of the constant reliance on ancient technology? It's the whole get out of jail move. Ummm damn this needs some clever thinking.. oh well we'll give them ancient technology that can do anything. I'd rather they got back to the human aspect of doing stuff. Just enhanced with the ancient/alien technology.

Indeed, which is why I long for the early days of SG1.


And as for ideas about a prequel. No no no no no. Absolutely not. Horrible. We'd lose the present day feel which makes SG what it is. The only way of doing any prequel is in animated form and as a kids show.

[madd4the24]

Technology is an easy out at times, but it's also an exceptional tool when it comes to opening up a universe you're letting your characters get their toes wet in. And considering we're talking about a sci-fi show, it wouldn't make much sense to regress technologically.

[Bareassedmunky]

There are a few problems comparing the concept to voyager - but if we must...

Voyager was supposed to be more barebones than the enterprise at the start, which was supposed to add to the sense of isolation and having to scrape by. But that all got dropped very quickly, (they would talk about betting with rations, but they never actually seemed to go hungry). I suspect there maybe a reason for that though - lack of material. Also note that atlantis was supposed to be cut off , ok contact was re-established during the first season so that was probably written before filming, but I suspect they only did that because they realised that they would struggle for a second season of limited resources or risk doing what voyager did - ignore it.

Also, opinion seems to be split in this thread about story-arc vrs one-off stories - they way it seems to me is that the ship will be constantly moving, so story arcs will have to be internal (i.e. no brae'tac, selmak etc. coming in and out or consistent enemies). This will only harm the series.

And regarding dealing with tech on the ship - the ship is millions of years older than atlantis - so they will probably know how to work it all. They are going to try to turn down the techno-babble. Stargate techno-babble is quite good - at least 75% of it makes sense (is based on real science or real theories) unlike star trek who's solution to everything is to use phase-inverters. I like the idea of emphasising the interpersonal relations, but to reduce the amount of science will put off existing fans, and I think the fact that it is sci-fi will put off new fans, I get what they are trying to do, but they are doing it to make it more mainstream, and they will fail

[chestnu1]

Here my idea for a fourth series based it is based on earth and deals with not only whatever plot threads were left over from sg-1 and have it deal with the revelation of the stargate program on earth. I thinking that universe sounds interesting and I hope it gets several seasons and it dosent sound like voyager (much) I hope they might bring over some minor characters from sg-1 and atlantis to fill the cast.

[Kezia]

Here's my take on how to make Stargate fun again:

- Bring in some new blood. The current writers have effectively run out of fresh ideas and their work has become stagnant and predictable.
- Believable cast of characters that does not include action hero caricature/science geek stereotype/sexy alien warrior/kid genius doctor etc etc.
- Character interaction with actual consequences. Please, enough with the happily-ever-after at the end of almost every episode.
- Severely limit SG-1/Atlantis crossovers. Let the new series thrive on its own merits.
- Creative, intertwined storylines and inventive, original writing. No more cheap knock-offs of other successful sci-fi shows.
- Don't kill off popular leading characters just to "shake things up", and then write next to no on-screen emotional fallout. It defeats the whole purpose of it.
- No more battlecruisers. Pull an Exodus and ditch em in another galaxy or something. Whatever. The uber-powerful Asgard weapons and Trek-esque beaming technologies need to go. And on a similar note...
- No more cheesy space battles. Who-has-the-stronger-shield battles are BORING and a complete waste of VFX budget.
- An actual compelling villain. Unlike the watered-down Wraith, Bori or the lame one-dimensional bad guy Michael turned into in S4.
- SG always has great production value but could benefit from more effective, polished editing.
- A dramatic, memorable soundtrack that grabs your attention (a la BSG, Torchwood etc) and can define Stargate for years to come

[blitzsnake]

It needs to be more like BSG.

[scirev]

Make it more mainstream like Doctor Who did...
Good character development.
Scifi development too - if we discover new technology, we need to find a way to use it and then use it.. (not forget all about it)
I like parallel universe and time travel stories too.. when done well of course.
That is what I would like.

[Bareassedmunky]

Make it more mainstream like Doctor Who did...
Good character development.
Scifi development too - if we discover new technology, we need to find a way to use it and then use it.. (not forget all about it)
I like parallel universe and time travel stories too.. when done well of course.
That is what I would like.

Judging from your post and your signature, I guess you are more of a soft sci-fi fan, which is fine, each to their own, but that isn't what stargate is and to turn it into a mainstream product is exactly the same mistake star trek made with the later series of voyager and enterprise (I know there are a lot of comparisons with star trek, but it is difficult to avoid).

What you have suggested is everything it is going to be (except the tech, that is actually going to be less of an issue), and every reason it will fail. The success of heros has shown that there is a mainstream market for soft sci-fi, but stargate is hard sci-fi and making it mainstream involves less explanation of the science. While I don't want them to be talking about science all the time, by not explaining it allows them to do anything without thinking properly about it, and they may as well use magic. 'We have a problem, ok, use that thing to fix it'.

And parallel universes and time travel stories suck, firstly they are inconsistent, make no sense (parallel universes appear for every decision, breaks the conservation of energy) and open up a can of worms (the reason why the writers destroyed the quantum mirror).