Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gateraid]

I'm going to come down from the ivory tower to actually interact with everyone *cracks fingers*

OMG, where to start. Gateraid, those caps are some of your best. I'd hate to know I had to pick a favorite.

Your observations on Rising are on the mark also. I never can make up my mind about ship in the pilot. I know plenty of people who picked Sparky as the canon ship after watching it, but if you go with the obvious intent, all the signs point to Sheyla. So many times, a show that continues past the pilot becomes almost the opposite in a lot of ways very quickly. I think that's what seems to have happened here, even if they deny it.

Aside from the champagne look (which his response kinda nullifies), I can't see any evidence of sparky ship in Rising. It didn't even occur to me at all until the tag scene in 38 Minutes, which was more of a huh? Did I imagine that? I thought it was meant to be the other one?" type affair. Buuut, why did she look at him of all people? Was it because he was the first person she saw (and noticed he'd seen her pick it up), or did she seek him out because they'd sort of connected as 'unusual for their rank/position' type people?

In the real world, Elizabeth would have had very little say so over the choice of military personnel. John correctly automatically became commander because of rank and as long as they were cut off, that worked. But once they got reestablished a new commander would have been sent without regard to what she wanted. If indeed, the President let her pick someone, then it would have taken a direct order from him, as Commanding Officer of the military, to convince those Generals to let Shep stay. But they didn't have time to do all that so we have to give them creative license.

When you put it like that, now I want to see Landry getting a phone call from the Big Guy. But the pwning of Caldwell at the end of the cutaway wouldn't be there, so I guess what we got worked too. People say they're suprised Weir didn't punch Kav in CM, but after "not the one you wanted" I'm surprised Caldwell didn't do the same. Caldwell: Yeah....ummmm....the ahhhh....entity got her. What do you mean it looks suspicious? Would I be trying to drag her body into that airlock if i had anything to hide?

And Shep had to go on that first mission so he could turn on the necklace to bring the Wraith. I can just see the writers pondering over that one and deciding to mix a little ship in with the whole thing to kill two birds with one stone. Too bad one of them landed like a rock.

Sheppard: As a token of my new love, let me give you this necklace that is specifically designed to kill you and everyone around you




Teyla: I shall cherish it in the afterlife

We've gotten a bit into my second section of The Rising: exploration of Atlantis to first mission, but can discuss that more, if you wish. How about Mr. SR's favorite part, "Spaceships!!!!!!"? How must the expedition members have been feeling? And then came the "OMG, we're all gonna die" section.

Also what are your thoughts on the actual mission to Athos? John and the kids. Sumner's treatment of Teyla. The outcome with the arrival of the Wraith. We'd probably best avoid the John/Teyla parts. I think we all know what we think about those.

As for intent, I should probably avoid commenting, but in the tent scene I think Shep was hitting on Teyla. He added an extra something to "I enjoy a good cup of tea, now that's something we know about each other...." Like all lines, it's all in the delivery. Moving on


I was taken aback with the discovery of Atlantis and its wonders. I take my hat off to David Hewlett and his delivery of "oh, now that is impressive" because it's really hard to deliver that without sounding gay (that's not a slight against gays, just that that isn't something a straight man would generally say) but it summed up the sight (Atlantis under the ocean) perfectly.

In hindsight, the jumpers/gateships are quite logical. The ancients built the gate system, so why wouldn't they create a vehicle that could fit through one. Even the Goauld (sp) managed to do that much themselves. But they were cooool!!!!!! A spaceship that can be controlled through mindpower! It's a brilliant plot device: no "activate cloak", no "divert all power to the shields", no lingo for the sake of it

I was impressed with Sumner on the Athos mission. They created a guy who was a hardass, but good at his job. He was just different to Shep, not better or worse. He had valid reasons for not thinking much of Sheppard, and while he didn't think a lot of Weir, he at least made the effort to keep her in the loop (yes, it's debatable where that relationship would have ended up - probably in the toilet) and I think he would have respected her authority until a situation arose where there was a clear military/civilian divide. Rodney's "impressive" comment is immediately followed by Sumner's "if we can't dial out, this is gonna be a problem". A room full of genius's (sp???), and it's the jarhead who points out the danger.

That said, someone of his experience should have been able to work with Teyla better. You don't get to Colonel without picking up at least some people skills, even if that isn't the priority of your job. He was correct with "these people can't help us" but it's not like he gave them a chance.

When they were captured, I was surprised (again) that they made him so stoic. I wanted him to be a weenie so I could hate him, but dammit, he wasn't. It grated me a little in a later ep when they implied that Sumner spilled the dirt on Earth (it's in the interepretation, that mightn't have been their intention) because all they got out of him was a name. And an UnHappy Meal.

As for Shep going off solo to 'rescue' Sumner - wtf? He was the only one who could get everyone else to safety. What were they supposed to do - push the jumper into space? He should have at least taken Ford with him as backup, but I don't think they should have taken anything away from the "hero/the guy" setup that they were doing.

ZOMG, if Shep was a fish out of water just walking around Stargate Command, he was really out of his element on the mission to Athos. At least, he was during the first part of it. I admit, I had to headdesk right along with Sumner when John couldn't figure out that Halling was his name. Honestly, I didn't get all bent out of shape about the way Sumner acted towards Teyla. Under the circumstances, it was understandable that he'd be cautious, and it does carry over quite well to the continued questions about the Athosians in general through Suspicion.

To this day I still crack up at that line

I'm glad you dropped by. I needed a break from working on my cookbook. OMG, how do you people with desk jobs stand working at a computer all day? I would have run screaming from my office. Good thing I was able to move around in the classroom. Anyway.

While we were watching Rising, Mr. SR made some very interesting comments about the decisions the military guys were making. While he thought Sumner should have been more sensitive to the fact that he was on another planet and a young female leader shouldn't have been shocking, he also thought John made a whole series of bad decisions from a command standpoint. The biggest was when he went off to rescue Sumner, leaving Ford behind. Ford was right there.

All emotion aside, they never should have trusted the Athosians like they did. For all they knew these people could have been some sort of dangerous enemy like the Goa'uld. You can't go on appearances. If I had been the leader, I would have quarantined them and ripped Sheppard a new one. But we can't dwell on reality, especially in a SciFi show that's rated PG.

That's a good point, although I guess they would argue that they touched on it during the balcony arguement, then brought it up again during Hide and Seek. Bringing them back to the city (whilst it was the only thing to do in a bind) seemed a bit silly. It all worked out in the end though.

Oh I absolutely agree. Elizabeth is quite correct in her argument to John on the balcony. She says maybe one of them brought the Wraith. For all they knew, it could have been that way. And then I've read people (who just happen to ship John with someone else) say how stupid Elizabeth's argument was about maybe negotiating with the Wraith. We find out in Before I Sleep that the Ancients tried that. And they were pretty bright.

I have to admit I *headdesked* at the line because it was so naive. But I completely understand why she said it (and needed to say it). Had she actually seen the Wraith at that point, then she would have understood the absurdity of her suggestion.

Yes, the Wraith started out very scary and hard to kill. The idea of them making you see things completely went away after season 1. It takes a nuke flown into a hive ship to destroy one in season 1 but then in season 5 it only takes a few drones.

I forgot about those vision things. One would think it would have gone in the other direction - giving them the ability to make you see 'real' things, like Woolsey's Anna Galvin fantasy

They needed someone like Weir to contrast with the military mindset. As much as I love the military guys, they tend to shoot first and forget to ask questions. That would have made the show boring, and they would have had to come up with a lot more enemies. They needed Weir to be diplomatic and provide interest, and with better writers we would have seen more scenes like the ones with her and John arguing.

The balcony arguement is one of my favourites. "I see your point - now you see mine" are simple words, but such a breath of fresh air for Stargate. It's why I fell in love with the Weir character, even if I didn't always agree with her. In the past it would have been a simple yes/no discussion, yet here we had two people making their case for their viewpoints.

IMO, the only times the civilian/military thing really worked was in: Rising, Hot Zone (I'm including it even though I see the divide as a personal/stylistic one rather than a clash of jurisdiction), Poisoning the Well (where he's needling her to test their new weapon), Seige II, and Trinity (especially Trinity).

What a great Friday afternoon!

Seems a bit up and down for you There's always next week

Love the 'Wednesday' sig. I'm not sure which is sadder - what those lyrics mean relative to sparky or the fact that I recognised where they came from

[Southern Red]

Okay, it's small and not exactly what I envisioned, but I've been staring at my screen for the past two hours, so this is as good as it's gonna get tonight:

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...5on3-1-1-1.jpg

Tada. My new sig. *snickers*

Love what you did with the red text there. And love the sig.

Poor Connor.

In the meantime... *kicks SW's video program*

Hmm, I suppose I ought to tinker with iMovie at some point, just to say I have.



Okay, that's three of us for Hide and Seek on Sunday. Who else wants to join the party?



Gorgeous!



Angsty, but so very lovely! *pets them both*

iMovie is fun and so easy. Well, easy if you've ever used any other vid software. It's mostly plug and play.

Sorry, have been lurking and reading all the interesting observations - just didn't really have anything half as eloquent to add

I'll be here, hopefully (Child is finally better and the cat no longer has to wear her flowerpot so isn't sulking!! )

What time are we looking at and does anyone wanna work out what time it'll be for me?? GMT?

I think we settled on 4:30PM EST, which I think would be 9:30PM GMT. Someone can correct me, if I'm wrong.

I'm going to come down from the ivory tower to actually interact with everyone *cracks fingers*



Aside from the champagne look (which his response kinda nullifies), I can't see any evidence of sparky ship in Rising. It didn't even occur to me at all until the tag scene in 38 Minutes, which was more of a huh? Did I imagine that? I thought it was meant to be the other one?" type affair. Buuut, why did she look at him of all people? Was it because he was the first person she saw (and noticed he'd seen her pick it up), or did she seek him out because they'd sort of connected as 'unusual for their rank/position' type people?

I thought the same thing at first, but later went back and took a closer look and changed my mind. The connection between them is established too well not to be foreshadowing a closer relationship later.

As for intent, I should probably avoid commenting, but in the tent scene I think Shep was hitting on Teyla. He added an extra something to "I enjoy a good cup of tea, now that's something we know about each other...." Like all lines, it's all in the delivery. Moving on

And again, I thought exactly this until Conversion. Not only was he hitting on her, but she was responding. So, the future canon couple was established and we were expecting it. What happened? Why was that cave scene the last romantic moment between them? What would have been the logical progression of that ship? More eye gazing, more little touches like when he put the necklace on her, more moments alone when he spoke to her in a soft voice and she got all dewy-eyed? What changed? As far as I saw, that was completely dropped and aside from a few awkward attempts to try to convince us there might or might not at some future date to still be determined be another moment between them, they never went there again. I mention Conversion because, and I said it at the time, his attack on her and her shock because of it made any future ship between them unlikely. Just the way I see it, of course. No problem if others see it different.

When they were captured, I was surprised (again) that they made him so stoic. I wanted him to be a weenie so I could hate him, but dammit, he wasn't. It grated me a little in a later ep when they implied that Sumner spilled the dirt on Earth (it's in the interepretation, that mightn't have been their intention) because all they got out of him was a name. And an UnHappy Meal.

No surprise there. After all, he is a Marine. Hoo Rah!

[Falcon Horus]

[Southern Red]

FH has laryngitis. LOL

[Falcon Horus]

Great, I thought that bug was fixed.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

I'm going to come down from the ivory tower to actually interact with everyone *cracks fingers*

When they were captured, I was surprised (again) that they made him so stoic. I wanted him to be a weenie so I could hate him, but dammit, he wasn't. It grated me a little in a later ep when they implied that Sumner spilled the dirt on Earth (it's in the interepretation, that mightn't have been their intention) because all they got out of him was a name. And an UnHappy Meal.

Well, the Wraith did get more than just a name:

WRAITH (silently): What do you call your world?

SUMNER (struggling not to speak, but unable to resist): Earth.

WRAITH: It is not among our stars.

SUMNER (still struggling): No.

WRAITH: Tell me of Earth. How many more are there of your kind? (Again, Sumner tries not to let her into his mind.) Thousands? Millions? (delighted) More. Our feeding ground has not been so rich in ten thousand years.

So in addition to the name, they knew it "wasn't among their stars" (meaning, it wasn't in the Pegasus Galaxy), and they knew it had LOTS of tasty UnHappy Meals.

I have to admit I *headdesked* at the line because it was so naive. But I completely understand why she said it (and needed to say it). Had she actually seen the Wraith at that point, then she would have understood the absurdity of her suggestion.

On the other hand, there's still the Wraith worshippers, though we didn't find out about them until Season 2. In retrospect, their existence does lend credence to her line of thinking.

The balcony arguement is one of my favourites. "I see your point - now you see mine" are simple words, but such a breath of fresh air for Stargate. It's why I fell in love with the Weir character, even if I didn't always agree with her. In the past it would have been a simple yes/no discussion, yet here we had two people making their case for their viewpoints.

IMO, the only times the civilian/military thing really worked was in: Rising, Hot Zone (I'm including it even though I see the divide as a personal/stylistic one rather than a clash of jurisdiction), Poisoning the Well (where he's needling her to test their new weapon), Seige II, and Trinity (especially Trinity).

Yeah, it's part of why I fell in love with our Lizzeh, too. She's so unique in all the Gateverse.

iMovie is fun and so easy. Well, easy if you've ever used any other vid software. It's mostly plug and play.

Heh! I've never used vid software before. But plug and play is easy enough.

I think we settled on 4:30PM EST, which I think would be 9:30PM GMT. Someone can correct me, if I'm wrong.

Yep, that's the right time.

I thought the same thing at first, but later went back and took a closer look and changed my mind. The connection between them is established too well not to be foreshadowing a closer relationship later.

*nods* I have to agree. While it might not be obvious to anyone watching Rising for the very first time, for anyone who has seen at least the rest of Season 1, it does look quite a bit like foreshadowing of greater feelings.

And again, I thought exactly this until Conversion. Not only was he hitting on her, but she was responding. So, the future canon couple was established and we were expecting it. What happened? Why was that cave scene the last romantic moment between them? What would have been the logical progression of that ship? More eye gazing, more little touches like when he put the necklace on her, more moments alone when he spoke to her in a soft voice and she got all dewy-eyed? What changed? As far as I saw, that was completely dropped and aside from a few awkward attempts to try to convince us there might or might not at some future date to still be determined be another moment between them, they never went there again. I mention Conversion because, and I said it at the time, his attack on her and her shock because of it made any future ship between them unlikely. Just the way I see it, of course. No problem if others see it different.

And it's worth noting that she still appears to be rather traumatized (for lack of a better word) by that incident to be having nightmares about it two years later in Doppelganger.

Great, I thought that bug was fixed.

Apparently not. *kicks GW*

[Anuna]

I am lol-ing at the UnHappy Meal.

Re ships. I think you can go two ways if you want to write a ship between two people who meet in the show's canon - they either fall for each other instantly and sparks that fly after they first set eyes on each other should make you hear the mental violins. If not that, you do Castle and Beckett and send them on a path of gradually getting to know, respect, trust and love each other; watch them tackle issues and hurdles that separate them, to finally see them getting together. In modern shows, which don't hide behind the outdated Moonlighting Curse nonsense, the two can become a couple without becoming boring (I ahve learned to reference Chuck here. I must watch it.)

I think the PTW wanted to do Sheyla via option one. The tea scene and the cave scene should have convinced us that John had found someone special, who won't judge him like people from Earth do; while Teyla found someone who would be a strong, reliable partner, in both love and fight. But for some reason the instant attraction storyline didn't work out and was dropped somewhere between The Storm/The Eye and Siege. At the same time an unplanned ship between Sheppard and Weir was begining to develop, via Castle and Beckett forumla. Ironically, it wasn't what PTW intended, because they didn't plan the chemistry between their show leads, and now when they had it they didn't have the guts to properly use it.

LE SIGH.

[ShipperWriter]

So both my laptop and my netbook are actings strange: whenever I get on the forum and Multi-Quote, neither of them will post the quotes. And my movie maker software isn't working.

I think the answer is, I downloaded a video player so I could watch "Sherlock" and I've been having problems since. Crap. *goes and uninstalls software* We'll see if that makes it any better.

And on to replies:

Thanks to everybody for the nice comments about the sigs. And gateraid, I think both are equally sad.

I *headdesk*'d as well when Elizabeth talked about negotiating with the Wraith, but that was only because I'd already seen most of theseries before I even saw "Rising". And it wasn't OOC for her because that was her mad skillz. Granted, if she had already seen what they could do, like John did, then she may have reconsidered. But that line: "I see your point. Now see mine", is probably one of my favorite quotes from SG. Sometimes, it works really well in RL too.

gateraid, I almost spilled my breakfast when I read the caption for the necklace. And yeah, even a monkey could see that a John/Teyla ship was what they wanted to happen in the premiere. And it didn't scream "SPARKY!" at the end, but more of mutual respect and the beginnings of a good working relationship. They made it clear where they stood.

And an unsaid:
: "I have a feeling we're going to be good friends, John."
: "So do I, ma'am. And good friends let good friends sit on her desk."

Anyhow, I've got some studying to do, probably should get off for a while. When I'm back later, I'll see if my movie maker has started working again or not.

Adios!

[ShipperWriter]

I am lol-ing at the UnHappy Meal.

Re ships. I think you can go two ways if you want to write a ship between two people who meet in the show's canon - they either fall for each other instantly and sparks that fly after they first set eyes on each other should make you hear the mental violins. If not that, you do Castle and Beckett and send them on a path of gradually getting to know, respect, trust and love each other; watch them tackle issues and hurdles that separate them, to finally see them getting together. In modern shows, which don't hide behind the outdated Moonlighting Curse nonsense, the two can become a couple without becoming boring (I ahve learned to reference Chuck here. I must watch it.)

I think the PTW wanted to do Sheyla via option one. The tea scene and the cave scene should have convinced us that John had found someone special, who won't judge him like people from Earth do; while Teyla found someone who would be a strong, reliable partner, in both love and fight. But for some reason the instant attraction storyline didn't work out and was dropped somewhere between The Storm/The Eye and Siege. At the same time an unplanned ship between Sheppard and Weir was begining to develop, via Castle and Beckett forumla. Ironically, it wasn't what PTW intended, because they didn't plan the chemistry between their show leads, and now when they had it they didn't have the guts to properly use it.

LE SIGH.

I completely agree. And you worded it much better than I could've.

And my deduction was right! I knew watching "Sherlock" was good for something ... ... I uninstalled the video player I had just downloaded and now I can quote and work on movie maker again!

As a present, I may have something for everyone later.

[Southern Red]

I am lol-ing at the UnHappy Meal.

Re ships. I think you can go two ways if you want to write a ship between two people who meet in the show's canon - they either fall for each other instantly and sparks that fly after they first set eyes on each other should make you hear the mental violins. If not that, you do Castle and Beckett and send them on a path of gradually getting to know, respect, trust and love each other; watch them tackle issues and hurdles that separate them, to finally see them getting together. In modern shows, which don't hide behind the outdated Moonlighting Curse nonsense, the two can become a couple without becoming boring (I ahve learned to reference Chuck here. I must watch it.)

I think the PTW wanted to do Sheyla via option one. The tea scene and the cave scene should have convinced us that John had found someone special, who won't judge him like people from Earth do; while Teyla found someone who would be a strong, reliable partner, in both love and fight. But for some reason the instant attraction storyline didn't work out and was dropped somewhere between The Storm/The Eye and Siege. At the same time an unplanned ship between Sheppard and Weir was begining to develop, via Castle and Beckett forumla. Ironically, it wasn't what PTW intended, because they didn't plan the chemistry between their show leads, and now when they had it they didn't have the guts to properly use it.

LE SIGH.

Hear hear! Perfectly said, and that part in bold will forever remain a mystery. Plus, when it was pointed out to them by multiple fans, they still didn't accept it. Shoot yourself in the foot often?

[Anuna]

Hear hear! Perfectly said, and that part in bold will forever remain a mystery. Plus, when it was pointed out to them by multiple fans, they still didn't accept it. Shoot yourself in the foot often?

I never understood their "relationship" with the fans. It's like they hated us, or at least most of us. I remember the days of S4 when Mallozzi was doing his infamous "you shouldn't like Elizabeth because she's unimportant, so suck it up" routine. As a result, he alienated a whole bunch of loyal viewers. Why?? I mean, don't you want people to like your product? You don't get them to like it by actively antagonizing them.

[Southern Red]

I never understood their "relationship" with the fans. It's like they hated us, or at least most of us. I remember the days of S4 when Mallozzi was doing his infamous "you shouldn't like Elizabeth because she's unimportant, so suck it up" routine. As a result, he alienated a whole bunch of loyal viewers. Why?? I mean, don't you want people to like your product? You don't get them to like it by actively antagonizing them.

I never got that either. It was "we're doing it the way we want and it doesn't matter what you think" all the way with them. So, therefore, a bunch of people stopped watching. They seemed to take delight in our anger and disappointment. Yet, they can see by the overwhelming response to SparkyCon and the fact that this thread is still going so strong that this ship would have made that show so much better. *shrugs*

I just realized I blew right past 10,000 posts and didn't even notice. Too busy having fun with Sparky.

[Anuna]

I never got that either. It was "we're doing it the way we want and it doesn't matter what you think" all the way with them. So, therefore, a bunch of people stopped watching. They seemed to take delight in our anger and disappointment. Yet, they can see by the overwhelming response to SparkyCon and the fact that this thread is still going so strong that this ship would have made that show so much better. *shrugs*

I just realized I blew right past 10,000 posts and didn't even notice. Too busy having fun with Sparky.

OMG yes you did - and you're well above the ten K number.

I really don't get it - they seemed to enjoy when we got angry at them - like they were proving we were stupid, wrong, whatever.... and at the end it's them who lost. Well, us too, but they could still have been in the business had they been smarter.

OT, or rather on topic, that sig of yours is breaking my heart. Also, I need a sig myself.

[poundpuppy29]

[Scary Kitty]

ZOMG! Congratulations on hitting 10,000 posts, Southern Red!

I am lol-ing at the UnHappy Meal.

Hey, don't look at me, gateraid started it.

Re ships. I think you can go two ways if you want to write a ship between two people who meet in the show's canon - they either fall for each other instantly and sparks that fly after they first set eyes on each other should make you hear the mental violins. If not that, you do Castle and Beckett and send them on a path of gradually getting to know, respect, trust and love each other; watch them tackle issues and hurdles that separate them, to finally see them getting together. In modern shows, which don't hide behind the outdated Moonlighting Curse nonsense, the two can become a couple without becoming boring (I ahve learned to reference Chuck here. I must watch it.)

I think the PTW wanted to do Sheyla via option one. The tea scene and the cave scene should have convinced us that John had found someone special, who won't judge him like people from Earth do; while Teyla found someone who would be a strong, reliable partner, in both love and fight. But for some reason the instant attraction storyline didn't work out and was dropped somewhere between The Storm/The Eye and Siege. At the same time an unplanned ship between Sheppard and Weir was begining to develop, via Castle and Beckett forumla. Ironically, it wasn't what PTW intended, because they didn't plan the chemistry between their show leads, and now when they had it they didn't have the guts to properly use it.

LE SIGH.

AMEN, SISTAH! What on Earth they were smoking, I have no idea. Nor do I want any part of it.

I never understood their "relationship" with the fans. It's like they hated us, or at least most of us. I remember the days of S4 when Mallozzi was doing his infamous "you shouldn't like Elizabeth because she's unimportant, so suck it up" routine. As a result, he alienated a whole bunch of loyal viewers. Why?? I mean, don't you want people to like your product? You don't get them to like it by actively antagonizing them.

Word. Rule #1 of running a successful business (and let's face it, TV is a business): Never piss off your loyal customers. If you do, they'll stop being loyal.

I never got that either. It was "we're doing it the way we want and it doesn't matter what you think" all the way with them. So, therefore, a bunch of people stopped watching. They seemed to take delight in our anger and disappointment. Yet, they can see by the overwhelming response to SparkyCon and the fact that this thread is still going so strong that this ship would have made that show so much better. *shrugs*

I just realized I blew right past 10,000 posts and didn't even notice. Too busy having fun with Sparky.

Indeed. Sparky could've been the next coming of Han and Leia, for pity's sake! It could have been a classic! But oh nooooo, can't have that, now can we? *headdesk*

Oh well, Sparky's in better hands with us, anyway. *cough*Atlantis Rising*cough*

And deliberately reposting because it's Sparky and they're so hot even when they're clones (at least, Elizabeth was a clone in that shot)...

Gah! How can they be so hot? It's a miracle that forest behind them didn't just spontaneously burst into flames from the uber Sparky hotness!

[Erin87]

Hey everybody!

Dropping by a new Elizabeth wallpaper that I made.

Spoiler:

oops. GW is apparently cutting off the edge on the right. link to see the whole thing: http://s677.photobucket.com/albums/v...=lizwallie.jpg

Hope everyone's doing well.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

very nice wallpaper Erin. sorry that i havent been around lately folks real life kinda is overtaking my free time to come on here. i hope you guys are doing well.

[ShipperWriter]

I never understood their "relationship" with the fans. It's like they hated us, or at least most of us. I remember the days of S4 when Mallozzi was doing his infamous "you shouldn't like Elizabeth because she's unimportant, so suck it up" routine. As a result, he alienated a whole bunch of loyal viewers. Why?? I mean, don't you want people to like your product? You don't get them to like it by actively antagonizing them.

Wasn't Mallozzi the one who spearheaded the McKeller ship? Granted, at the time, I was a big McKeller fan, but that's mainly because I'll ship anything. If I watched a TV show about a forest, I'd probably ship a pine tree and a rock. I'm just that desperate.

I never got that either. It was "we're doing it the way we want and it doesn't matter what you think" all the way with them. So, therefore, a bunch of people stopped watching. They seemed to take delight in our anger and disappointment. Yet, they can see by the overwhelming response to SparkyCon and the fact that this thread is still going so strong that this ship would have made that show so much better. *shrugs*

I just realized I blew right past 10,000 posts and didn't even notice. Too busy having fun with Sparky.

YAY!!! Congrats!

Deliberate repost on following pic:

: "Elizabeth, before that Replicator ship kills us, I need to ask you something."
: "Okay?"
: "Are you wearing anything under that jacket? It's been zipped up since we met."
: "Nope. Apparently the Replicators built me with knowledge about our tendancy for frequenting supply closets."
: "Damn Replicators."

Word. Rule #1 of running a successful business (and let's face it, TV is a business): Never piss off your loyal customers. If you do, they'll stop being loyal.

They killed Elizabeth. They pissed us off. End of.

Indeed. Sparky could've been the next coming of Han and Leia, for pity's sake! It could have been a classic! But oh nooooo, can't have that, now can we? *headdesk*

*starts imagining all the Han/Leia scenes replaced with John/Elizabeth*

So who would've been Luke??? Hmm?

Oh well, Sparky's in better hands with us, anyway. *cough*Atlantis Rising*cough*

True dat.

Hey everybody!

Dropping by a new Elizabeth wallpaper that I made.

Spoiler:

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v.../lizwallie.jpg

oops. GW is apparently cutting off the edge on the right. link to see the whole thing: http://s677.photobucket.com/albums/v...=lizwallie.jpg

Hope everyone's doing well.

(((Erin))) -- nice to see you!!!

very nice wallpaper Erin. sorry that i havent been around lately folks real life kinda is overtaking my free time to come on here. i hope you guys are doing well.

No worries, mon. We understand!

BTW, I like the fic idea you had over on the J/S thread! Bounty hunters -- that'd be epic!

[gateraid]

I thought the same thing at first, but later went back and took a closer look and changed my mind. The connection between them is established too well not to be foreshadowing a closer relationship later.

Looking at it now makes me scratch my head. At the time, before any notion of ship entered my head, I thought they shared a look because they were the two leads. I can look at it now and see ship, and rationalise it, but I think it's one of the few times they weren't teasing us. From what I understand it was a shared script (BW & RCC) so I don't think they would have intentionally written it that way. There's a remark in the Misbegotten commentary where they frame a shot of her with the gate in the background (IIRC it's something like "in her place") which irritates the hell out of me, so they could just as easily had her look back at the open wormhole.

And again, I thought exactly this until Conversion. Not only was he hitting on her, but she was responding. So, the future canon couple was established and we were expecting it. What happened? Why was that cave scene the last romantic moment between them? What would have been the logical progression of that ship? More eye gazing, more little touches like when he put the necklace on her, more moments alone when he spoke to her in a soft voice and she got all dewy-eyed? What changed? As far as I saw, that was completely dropped and aside from a few awkward attempts to try to convince us there might or might not at some future date to still be determined be another moment between them, they never went there again. I mention Conversion because, and I said it at the time, his attack on her and her shock because of it made any future ship between them unlikely. Just the way I see it, of course. No problem if others see it different.

I could rationalise the Conversion 'kiss' if her response during the tag scene was a little different. By that I mean that it appeared as if she was being attacked earlier, and she responded as such, but given both of their reactions when he apologised it seemed as if it was a random male/female thing rather than a John/Teyla thing. That whole thing blew up a bit in MG's face (again, according to my interpretation of the commentary) because he wanted to make the attack seem like it was based on some desires, but the takes that they'd shot didn't allow him to edit it that way. Had it been done a little differently, well yes, maybe we could have looked at that as a leap forwards for them. As it turned out, they didn't do anything ship-wise with all three of them (was Sanctuary before or after that? I forget ) until Sunday.

There certainly were more (overt) hints of Sheyla than Sparky in s1, but the one that seemed to me to be their First Strike equivalent was Letters From Pegasus. Teyla is making an emotional plea to him but he flat out refuses to do anything, yet when it turns out they're trapped there it's "oh well, guess we can load up the jumper since we've got some time to kill". One could argue that she's disappointed in the entire team/expedition, but it's more personal than that.

No surprise there. After all, he is a Marine. Hoo Rah!

At least they got that bit of characterisation right

FH has laryngitis. LOL

Well, the Wraith did get more than just a name:



So in addition to the name, they knew it "wasn't among their stars" (meaning, it wasn't in the Pegasus Galaxy), and they knew it had LOTS of tasty UnHappy Meals.

It's not really a map though, and if they'd bothered to think about it, it wouldn't have been a surprise either. Didn't they wonder where the Ancients went? Or where they came from? Surely they could have sent some hives on scouting missions over the last 10,000yrs (with some refreshments in storage)? Space is omni-directional, after all. Continuity fail.

On the other hand, there's still the Wraith worshippers, though we didn't find out about them until Season 2. In retrospect, their existence does lend credence to her line of thinking.

Even forgetting them for a second, someone who didn't want to die could have 'volunteered' the information, ala Outsiders.

And it's worth noting that she still appears to be rather traumatized (for lack of a better word) by that incident to be having nightmares about it two years later in Doppelganger.

Yes, YES!!! I do not understand that dream.

It's set with the Athosians, not Atlantis (I assume that's because that's where her greatest ties are). Ronon is the first person she sees, who then proceeds to tease her about Shep with a phrase that I've not heard anyone on the show use, let alone two aliens. Is he saying this (in her mind) as a way of explaining why he didn't put the moves on her, or just that he really did think she'd end up with Shep? Then she sees the man of her dreams. Whoa - it's either a flashback to when he attacked her, a mental interpretation of her blaming him for waking the wraith and causing untold chaos in Pegasus, a reminder of how people in her life have ended up, some sort of underlying fear of the wraith side of her DNA, or an indication of her desires for him. I shouldn't be able to come up with that many other ideas for it other than what should have been ship-only.

I am lol-ing at the UnHappy Meal.

There's always PFC (Pegasus Fried Colonel).

Re ships. <snip> But for some reason the instant attraction storyline didn't work out and was dropped somewhere between The Storm/The Eye and Siege. At the same time an unplanned ship between Sheppard and Weir was begining to develop, via Castle and Beckett forumla. Ironically, it wasn't what PTW intended, because they didn't plan the chemistry between their show leads, and now when they had it they didn't have the guts to properly use it.

LE SIGH.

It had never occured to me, but if they'd been thinking about ship at all in that ep, then Teyla would never have left the city. At no time after the realisation that there was a storm did their storylines converge, other than in passing

Thanks to everybody for the nice comments about the sigs. And gateraid, I think both are equally sad.

I respect Katy Perry, even if I don't like all of her music. At least she's stayed true to what she is - a pop singer - and not pretended to be something else. Her music is what pop is meant to be like. It helps she can actually sing. She doesn't look half bad either

I *headdesk*'d as well when Elizabeth talked about negotiating with the Wraith, but that was only because I'd already seen most of theseries before I even saw "Rising". And it wasn't OOC for her because that was her mad skillz. Granted, if she had already seen what they could do, like John did, then she may have reconsidered. But that line: "I see your point. Now see mine", is probably one of my favorite quotes from SG. Sometimes, it works really well in RL too.

It fully needed to be said, but I can see why people have jumped on it *shrugs* That whole scene is win - even when he calls her on having the arguement outside.

gateraid, I almost spilled my breakfast when I read the caption for the necklace. And yeah, even a monkey could see that a John/Teyla ship was what they wanted to happen in the premiere. And it didn't scream "SPARKY!" at the end, but more of mutual respect and the beginnings of a good working relationship. They made it clear where they stood.[/qoute]

I'm surprised that's still there

[quote\
And an unsaid:
: "I have a feeling we're going to be good friends, John."
: "So do I, ma'am. And good friends let good friends sit on her desk."

I never got that either. It was "we're doing it the way we want and it doesn't matter what you think" all the way with them. So, therefore, a bunch of people stopped watching. They seemed to take delight in our anger and disappointment. Yet, they can see by the overwhelming response to SparkyCon and the fact that this thread is still going so strong that this ship would have made that show so much better. *shrugs*

I understand the ethos of not giving fans everything they want, but these guys took it to the extreme. Back when I used to watch ST, one of the clever things (I thought) they did with Crusher & Picard was have them get married in the finale. By doing this they pleased the shippers, but they also pleased the non-shippers when it didn't work out. Genius.

My impression of TPTW is that they probably thought that no matter what they did, people would still watch (what's the expression - if the fans hate it they'll only watch five times, not fifteen?), so they wrote what they wanted to happen and assumed people would tune it. To a point, it worked. I continued to watch as the quality declined. There is no scale for enjoyment in ratings, so as long as people still tune in and advertisers still purchase ad time, then there's no issue.

I just realized I blew right past 10,000 posts and didn't even notice. Too busy having fun with Sparky.

ZOMG! Congratulations on hitting 10,000 posts, Southern Red!

Congratulations And ^ what she said

Word. Rule #1 of running a successful business (and let's face it, TV is a business): Never piss off your loyal customers. If you do, they'll stop being loyal.

TPTW: Let them eat cake

Fans: Get bent

Indeed. Sparky could've been the next coming of Han and Leia, for pity's sake! It could have been a classic! But oh nooooo, can't have that, now can we? *headdesk*

Excellent comparison. Wasn't the plan to go with Luke and Leia originally, but he turned out to be a complete weenie, and Han & Leia actually had some chemistry so they did the ship swaparoo? Or is that an urban myth?

Hey everybody!

Dropping by a new Elizabeth wallpaper that I made.

Spoiler:

oops. GW is apparently cutting off the edge on the right. link to see the whole thing: http://s677.photobucket.com/albums/v...=lizwallie.jpg

Hope everyone's doing well.

Wow. Torri/Elizabeth looks positively angelic in that shot

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

No worries, mon. We understand!

BTW, I like the fic idea you had over on the J/S thread! Bounty hunters -- that'd be epic!

thanks. it will be my first actual stargate fic that i would right. i also got a couple of J/E stories as well. one of them actually takes place during the six weeks that the atlantis expedition is on earth during "The Return."