Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Easter Lily]

It is an amazing scene, don't you think Lexa? The first real sign that Elizabeth can be vulnerable. It shows that vast difference between the military and civilian mind when it comes to dealing with those sort of life and death situations. Despite her training and all the things she's seen, there's still that part of her that's a bit lost and she's willing to admit it.
Perfect writing. I hate the way in all other TV/film scripts with that sort of scene someone's asked if they're okay and they say "yeah, great". That's not a normal reaction. Elizabeth's reaction was the real thing. It made her 'one of us', not some 'on a pedestal' leader.

Lots of people have called that a weakness... but I don't know... I think it's a rare honesty to be able to open up to the people that you work with... to acknowledge openly that fear is a reality and that unexpected events do faze you. That to me, takes greater courage. That moment in The Eye is quite lovely because it shows not only her willingness to be vulnerable but Sheppard's unerring optimism that she has the ability to recover from recent events.

[astronomicalchick]

It wasn't even romantic!
and instead of Liz, he apologized to Teyla! wtf?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/LJAtl/capture.jpg
Lizzie: "Apologize, Colonel!"

It's strange, yes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm probably going to p*ss some of you and some of the S/T shippers off as well, but what the heck.

This is about Canon "ship" versus Fandom "ship". The two are somewhat different, as I hope I'll explain.

In canon, I don't think the PTB are doing anything as maturely with S/W as we think they are. When it comes to romantic ship I don't think they have remotely the talent for it. Just look at their record with SG-1, the debacle over Pete, the on-off Sam and Jack stuff, here today, gone tomorrow, here today, gone tomorrow... ad infinitum.

In canon, I think that they are going with a "profound" friendship thing with S/W, despite earlier thoughts about making them "confrontational" like Jack and Daniel. Hence Joe's comments about there being no romantic tension with Weir. Luckily for us, PTB can do friendship it seems. I would challenge anyone to say that S/W are not friends in canon, I think someone would have to have the weirdest relationship patterns in the world to see that they are not. For S/W fandom, I think what we have is a happy accident from the policy that PTB are following. Don't get me wrong I love S/W, I love their scenes together, I love how they spark off each other, the caring that's there (whether you perceive it romantic or not). I think that's lovely, I think that's the basis for a mature, romantic ship. The PTB don't think that way tho.

Look at Ronon and Teyla, canon-wise they're the same, I love them together (and it isn't because I'm a S/W). They smile at each other, lovely gentle smiles, they exchange glances, it's a real connection. I will love to see their friendship develop, for alas if it's working really well, then the PTB won't be seeing romance.

I'm sure we'd all agree that in the real world, both scenarios of caring and friendship would be the basis of any normal romantic relationship, but not if you live in the world of the PTB, in my opinion.

Firstly, the character of Sheppard is the character that the PTB would all love to be. Like all of us, they project onto Sheppard, hence the "kirking" and the Teyla thing, i.e. the hot alien chick. Secondly, he PTB are all men, so they're writing "romance" in a way that they think most female viewers like, bad re-hashing of bad-Harlequin (Mills and Boons for us Ukers). For me as a non S/T fan, it just goes over my head most of the time. I don't see the things S/T fans see, which is fine, shipping is very much in the eye of the beholder and I don't think any less of them for seeing it. But I'm not an S/T fan, so I'm watching their scenes without looking for ship. So what do I see in canon S/T?

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it. Although funnily enough a male friend thought they were doing it because "Sheppard had his head in her breasts". A male point of view.). I also see not very much caring. I don't see the amount of consistent caring that John does for Elizabeth or Teyla for Ronon A lot of their interaction is very confrontational and yes "tense". I'm sure many of you like me will have read bad romances, where the couple "hate" each other before suddenly realising that they "love" each other and that usually includes a forced kiss. It's bad, it's immature. To be clear, I am not talking about how S/T shippers see their ship, because from what I've read in terms of fanfic and what they say, their fandom ship is absolutely what I'd expect from a fandom ship, there's caring in there, there's love and romance.

There's also one more thing that's missing from Canon S/T, and that is consistency.

In the tried and tested manner of S/J (why do something new when you can go back and rehash an old relationship?), the PTB spend episode after episode ignoring S/T and then throw in the old spurious shippy moment. It is not consistent. Again, I'm not talking about fandon S/T, who like us for S/W will see ship in ways we don't see and vica versa, again I'm talking about canon S/T here. In this way, PTB will probably treat S/T in the same way as S/J.

Tell you what, canon wise, I'd go with S/W being really good friends, because that can be built on in lots of lovely ways in fandom. The same goes for R/T. We are not going to get S/W (and R/T) riding off into the sunset, this PTB do not do that. We'll get lots of great friendship moments (with sub-textual flirting that perhaps only certain people will see) and the odd canon-S/T shippy moment thrown in.

Have to say, this is only just my opinion, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong by the PTB. But I doubt it, unless they get some writers in (preferably women who know ship)

[gooner_diva]

I think it is both a reaction and a protective layer... For many people S/J was a debacle of the highest kind so they don't want TPTB to go down that road again. Also, I think people don't want to get hurt by the whole ship issue yet again... they invested a great deal of their emotions into S/J and it turned out to be a dead end. Stargate doesn't have a great history writing ship so for many people it's all or nothing.

So true. S/J is such a looming debacle over this fandom that anytime someone mentions ship on Atlantis outside shipper threads there's an allergic reaction. With a good reason, to be honest. I came into this show as an anti-shipper and then these two took me over not because they were "meant to be" like S/T (no thanks TPTB, I prefer to decide for myself, I don't need you to tell me who to ship for), but because of the friendship and trust that spontaneously developed between two people who would have absolutely nothing in common in a normal situation on Earth. However, these are abnormal circumstances and things like a pilot with a diplomat can happen.

Critical Mass was great... it had the whole team thing happening and also had nice S/W moments... Huzzah for Carl Binder!

Carl Binder is the best thing that happened to this show. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record when it comes to him. Worse, a fangirl. Could it be that TPTB realised they couldn't write women and ships if their lives depended on it and got him to write for Atlantis where we have two main female characters and the so-called canonised ship?

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it.

Ohh, brilliantly put. It was Binder who killed that ship for me in Letters From Pegasus: a young woman severely disappointed because the man she had idolised stopped being her hero and became a fellow leader who can and must look at the bigger picture at the expense of leaving people behind. The twilight of an idol, not a married couple's squabble as I've seen that scene interpreted. So in that spirit I consider that scene in TLG an unnecessary attempt to revive a ship that doesn't exist anymore. It can't exist because it was built on the wrong foundation from its very beginning. And in light of the recent trend of having to put disclaimers in every post that could potentially be misunderstood by another group, I do so. This isn't aimed in any way against S/T shippers but rather the show itself.

[Erised]

brilliant post astronomicalchick. green splat.
I wish that TPTB showed John apologizing to Elizabeth. Honestly, if I had to choose who to apologize to, whom I kissed or whom I almost killed, I would choose the second one. I know he did do it, but TPTB didn't show it to us. Elizabeth is one of the main characters and also someone who did not leave him alone while he was transforming into a monster, who trusted him completely when she came into his room. He almost kills her and we get to see is an apology for a kiss?
At least one good thing came from it - a closure to S/T

So true. S/J is such a looming debacle over this fandom that anytime someone mentions ship on Atlantis outside shipper threads there's an allergic reaction. With a good reason, to be honest. I came into this show as an anti-shipper and then these two took me over not because they were "meant to be" like S/T (no thanks TPTB, I prefer to decide for myself, I don't need you to tell me who to ship for), but because of the friendship and trust that spontaneously developed between two people who would have absolutely nothing in common in a normal situation on Earth. However, these are abnormal circumstances and things like a pilot with a diplomat can happen.

Ooh yes, some people hate mentioning S/J. I don't love doing it either, but all the time can't help but hope that TPTB have learned something from it, and that our sparky will not end up like S/J. I want to remember this ship after the show ends, remember it in years to come, as the most successful and anticipated ship within my favorite shows. I don't want S/J to repeat. No one does, right? It hit a dead end, we get an alternate reality kiss, we see them fishing. That's it. We don't get to see them kiss in real life (real for them). And now Jack is gone and all the shippers are going crazy over one line said in Ex Deus Machina.
Judging by the events that took in season 1 and 2 of Atlantis, I expect nothing less than a romantic end as a part of a subplot when this show ends. I want to see John and Elizabeth talking about their feelings, about everything, and sharing that long kiss that they dreamed of for years. I want to see this as clear as daylight, because doing something like that, or something similar, will ensure that John and Elizabeth will be remembered and associated with "aaaww" or "one of my favorite TV-couples" or just a positive light instead of "I don't want to think about that show and that ship," "mention it again and I will red you to death"
This is all IMO

[smallgirl]

It's strange, yes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm probably going to p*ss some of you and some of the S/T shippers off as well, but what the heck.

This is about Canon "ship" versus Fandom "ship". The two are somewhat different, as I hope I'll explain.

In canon, I don't think the PTB are doing anything as maturely with S/W as we think they are. When it comes to romantic ship I don't think they have remotely the talent for it. Just look at their record with SG-1, the debacle over Pete, the on-off Sam and Jack stuff, here today, gone tomorrow, here today, gone tomorrow... ad infinitum.

In canon, I think that they are going with a "profound" friendship thing with S/W, despite earlier thoughts about making them "confrontational" like Jack and Daniel. Hence Joe's comments about there being no romantic tension with Weir. Luckily for us, PTB can do friendship it seems. I would challenge anyone to say that S/W are not friends in canon, I think someone would have to have the weirdest relationship patterns in the world to see that they are not. For S/W fandom, I think what we have is a happy accident from the policy that PTB are following. Don't get me wrong I love S/W, I love their scenes together, I love how they spark off each other, the caring that's there (whether you perceive it romantic or not). I think that's lovely, I think that's the basis for a mature, romantic ship. The PTB don't think that way tho.

Look at Ronon and Teyla, canon-wise they're the same, I love them together (and it isn't because I'm a S/W). They smile at each other, lovely gentle smiles, they exchange glances, it's a real connection. I will love to see their friendship develop, for alas if it's working really well, then the PTB won't be seeing romance.

I'm sure we'd all agree that in the real world, both scenarios of caring and friendship would be the basis of any normal romantic relationship, but not if you live in the world of the PTB, in my opinion.

Firstly, the character of Sheppard is the character that the PTB would all love to be. Like all of us, they project onto Sheppard, hence the "kirking" and the Teyla thing, i.e. the hot alien chick. Secondly, he PTB are all men, so they're writing "romance" in a way that they think most female viewers like, bad re-hashing of bad-Harlequin (Mills and Boons for us Ukers). For me as a non S/T fan, it just goes over my head most of the time. I don't see the things S/T fans see, which is fine, shipping is very much in the eye of the beholder and I don't think any less of them for seeing it. But I'm not an S/T fan, so I'm watching their scenes without looking for ship. So what do I see in canon S/T?

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it. Although funnily enough a male friend thought they were doing it because "Sheppard had his head in her breasts". A male point of view.). I also see not very much caring. I don't see the amount of consistent caring that John does for Elizabeth or Teyla for Ronon A lot of their interaction is very confrontational and yes "tense". I'm sure many of you like me will have read bad romances, where the couple "hate" each other before suddenly realising that they "love" each other and that usually includes a forced kiss. It's bad, it's immature. To be clear, I am not talking about how S/T shippers see their ship, because from what I've read in terms of fanfic and what they say, their fandom ship is absolutely what I'd expect from a fandom ship, there's caring in there, there's love and romance.

There's also one more thing that's missing from Canon S/T, and that is consistency.

In the tried and tested manner of S/J (why do something new when you can go back and rehash an old relationship?), the PTB spend episode after episode ignoring S/T and then throw in the old spurious shippy moment. It is not consistent. Again, I'm not talking about fandon S/T, who like us for S/W will see ship in ways we don't see and vica versa, again I'm talking about canon S/T here. In this way, PTB will probably treat S/T in the same way as S/J.

Tell you what, canon wise, I'd go with S/W being really good friends, because that can be built on in lots of lovely ways in fandom. The same goes for R/T. We are not going to get S/W (and R/T) riding off into the sunset, this PTB do not do that. We'll get lots of great friendship moments (with sub-textual flirting that perhaps only certain people will see) and the odd canon-S/T shippy moment thrown in.

Have to say, this is only just my opinion, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong by the PTB. But I doubt it, unless they get some writers in (preferably women who know ship)

YES! To everything. You certainly haven't p*ssed me off. Quite the opposite.

I am tired of male PTB writing what they assume female viewers want and completely getting it wrong. I know they have trouble understanding 'us' like we do them but couldn't they, as you say, hire some people who do. Anyway never mind. You are right with S/W we have consistent friendship which makes us think there is a foundation for more but TPTB don't bother with foundations when it comes to creating canon romantic relationships.The only foundation they bother with is sexual attraction. They hinted at that with Shep/Teyla and think that is enough for everyone to be satisfied. I do agree that there doesn't seem the 'level of caring' you speak of with Shep/Teyla as there is with Shep/Weir. Partly this is simply because Shep spends more time with Weir than he does Teyla, in non action driven situations. Also it is purely because of the dynamics of the two relationships. Weir and Shep need to work together and reach important decisions in conjunction so they have had to learn to understand and support each other. This has built up a caring friendship. With Shep/Teyla, he trusts and respects her, or he wouldn't want her as part of his team. She equally trusts and respects him, or she wouldn't be able to follow his orders. However, like with Ford and now Ronon, Shep expects Teyla to stand on her own two feet because that's her job. He'll fuss over McKay more than her, because McKay hasn't got the training she has in order to protect himself. It's not that Weir is weak, in anyway but her 'role' is different to Teyla's and in order for her to perform it, Sheppard needs to be sure she is safe.

I don't think it is a case of a 'bad romance' as you say in regard to Shep/Teyla. It's not hate that will turn into love. I actually like conflict in a pairing, I am slightly a sucker for that type of romance. What I saw between Shep and Teyla, in the past, was a lack of understanding. In complete contrast to Ronon and Teyla's almost instant understanding of each other. I don't see Teyla interested in 'Sheppard' as a person or vice versa. They care about each other's well being but they are content with their friendship at the level it is at. For a relationship, you need to have a desire to know more about the other person. I see that interest in Ronon from Teyla. Teyla strikes me as having hit a bit of a brick wall with Sheppard. She was interested in the being (not romantically) but just because she is a people orientated person but she got nowhere so she accepted him as he is. As tough as Ronon is, he has opened up to her and I think that will increasingly draw her to him. With Ronon/Teyla we may end up with canon, purely because they are not the leads so maybe TPTB will be less freaked out about trying something. Their relationship wouldn't potentially cause ripples in the power structure of Atlantis. Also the hot alien + hot alien is something the male PTB could get their heads around.

[smallgirl]

It wasn't even romantic!
and instead of Liz, he apologized to Teyla! wtf?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/LJAtl/capture.jpg
Lizzie: "Apologize, Colonel!"

I am glad he apologised to Teyla, precisely because it was so unpleasant and she looked uncomfortable and somewhat shaken. If he hadn't, or just let it pass as a joke then it would have sent the message that that kind of thing is okay.

[Erised]

I am glad he apologised to Teyla, precisely because it was so unpleasant and she looked uncomfortable and somewhat shaken. If he hadn't, or just let it pass as a joke then it would have sent the message that that kind of thing is okay.

both! He should have apologozed to both

[Suzotchka]

both! He should have apologozed to both

Yes! Exactly!

[Erised]

very quiet here today

[k8tbug1]

very quiet here today

Thanks for the wonderful balcony scene pic Erised!!! Since I've been sick w/ the stomach flu for the past 24 hours it really helped cheer-up my day!!!!

[Melyanna]

Erised, I think the bigger issue on the apology in Conversion is that John was more himself when he kissed Teyla than when he nearly killed Elizabeth. Sure, Teyla knew it was out of character for him and that it wasn't really him, but it's got to be difficult to really accept and internalize that, when he still looked like John Sheppard. And from an audience member's standpoint, we didn't need to hear him say that wanting to kill Elizabeth was out of character. We knew that already. And as you said, the audience needed that scene because it closed the door.

I guess the reason I'm such a proponent of an actual relationship is that if the show goes on for several years and there's no resolution... well, at least one of the characters ends up looking pathetic. Think of it this way: you have two coworkers, one of whom works for the other, and they have a thing for each other but can't do anything about it because of company rules. And this goes on for years. Tell me you and your buddies wouldn't be laughing your butts off at them around the water cooler. It's just not what people do, and in a situation like this where it would be plausible, when considering various rules and regulations, it makes more sense to just go for it, difficulties and all. It'd make for good drama every once in a while, and wouldn't overwhelm the show, because really? The show has more than enough other stuff going on to keep things really interesting.

[Jenova Synthesis]

Hope you feel better soon, k8!





These faces say everything, don't they?

[k8tbug1]

Hope you feel better soon, k8!





These faces say everything, don't they?

Thanks and yes you know what they say about a picture, it can say a thousand words!!! / = forever!!!

[Vicky]

Oh yeah! She so wanted to jump in his arms!

btw Jenova Synthesis, I love your sig!

[Jenova Synthesis]

An oldie but always great!



PS: Vicky, wonder why? Love yours too!

[Erised]

Erised, I think the bigger issue on the apology in Conversion is that John was more himself when he kissed Teyla than when he nearly killed Elizabeth. Sure, Teyla knew it was out of character for him and that it wasn't really him, but it's got to be difficult to really accept and internalize that, when he still looked like John Sheppard. And from an audience member's standpoint, we didn't need to hear him say that wanting to kill Elizabeth was out of character. We knew that already. And as you said, the audience needed that scene because it closed the door.

I guess the reason I'm such a proponent of an actual relationship is that if the show goes on for several years and there's no resolution... well, at least one of the characters ends up looking pathetic. Think of it this way: you have two coworkers, one of whom works for the other, and they have a thing for each other but can't do anything about it because of company rules. And this goes on for years. Tell me you and your buddies wouldn't be laughing your butts off at them around the water cooler. It's just not what people do, and in a situation like this where it would be plausible, when considering various rules and regulations, it makes more sense to just go for it, difficulties and all. It'd make for good drama every once in a while, and wouldn't overwhelm the show, because really? The show has more than enough other stuff going on to keep things really interesting.

True, true! "Go for it!" - Yep! In my opinion, TPTB are a lot braver with John/Elizabeth relationship than they used to in *cough* SG-1 *cough*. We got 38 Minutes, the Eye and Hot Zone and the Siege II, III, Conversion, TLG, all in the first two seasons. We get sparky moments in almost every episode. These moments don't dissappear for half the season at a time. Sparky is developing behind the main story, and it keeps shippers and non-shippers happy. Uh, except for the sheylas maybe.


Jenova, love the pics! Sparky Hive
p.s. Lizzie looks better with wavy hair

[Flowerbud]

It's strange, yes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm probably going to p*ss some of you and some of the S/T shippers off as well, but what the heck.

This is about Canon "ship" versus Fandom "ship". The two are somewhat different, as I hope I'll explain.

In canon, I don't think the PTB are doing anything as maturely with S/W as we think they are. When it comes to romantic ship I don't think they have remotely the talent for it. Just look at their record with SG-1, the debacle over Pete, the on-off Sam and Jack stuff, here today, gone tomorrow, here today, gone tomorrow... ad infinitum.

In canon, I think that they are going with a "profound" friendship thing with S/W, despite earlier thoughts about making them "confrontational" like Jack and Daniel. Hence Joe's comments about there being no romantic tension with Weir. Luckily for us, PTB can do friendship it seems. I would challenge anyone to say that S/W are not friends in canon, I think someone would have to have the weirdest relationship patterns in the world to see that they are not. For S/W fandom, I think what we have is a happy accident from the policy that PTB are following. Don't get me wrong I love S/W, I love their scenes together, I love how they spark off each other, the caring that's there (whether you perceive it romantic or not). I think that's lovely, I think that's the basis for a mature, romantic ship. The PTB don't think that way tho.

Look at Ronon and Teyla, canon-wise they're the same, I love them together (and it isn't because I'm a S/W). They smile at each other, lovely gentle smiles, they exchange glances, it's a real connection. I will love to see their friendship develop, for alas if it's working really well, then the PTB won't be seeing romance.

I'm sure we'd all agree that in the real world, both scenarios of caring and friendship would be the basis of any normal romantic relationship, but not if you live in the world of the PTB, in my opinion.

Firstly, the character of Sheppard is the character that the PTB would all love to be. Like all of us, they project onto Sheppard, hence the "kirking" and the Teyla thing, i.e. the hot alien chick. Secondly, he PTB are all men, so they're writing "romance" in a way that they think most female viewers like, bad re-hashing of bad-Harlequin (Mills and Boons for us Ukers). For me as a non S/T fan, it just goes over my head most of the time. I don't see the things S/T fans see, which is fine, shipping is very much in the eye of the beholder and I don't think any less of them for seeing it. But I'm not an S/T fan, so I'm watching their scenes without looking for ship. So what do I see in canon S/T?

I see two people who actually seem to be miserable in each other's company a lot. They argue. They fight with sticks. (I know that was supposed to be about UST, but I never saw it. Although funnily enough a male friend thought they were doing it because "Sheppard had his head in her breasts". A male point of view.). I also see not very much caring. I don't see the amount of consistent caring that John does for Elizabeth or Teyla for Ronon A lot of their interaction is very confrontational and yes "tense". I'm sure many of you like me will have read bad romances, where the couple "hate" each other before suddenly realising that they "love" each other and that usually includes a forced kiss. It's bad, it's immature. To be clear, I am not talking about how S/T shippers see their ship, because from what I've read in terms of fanfic and what they say, their fandom ship is absolutely what I'd expect from a fandom ship, there's caring in there, there's love and romance.

There's also one more thing that's missing from Canon S/T, and that is consistency.

In the tried and tested manner of S/J (why do something new when you can go back and rehash an old relationship?), the PTB spend episode after episode ignoring S/T and then throw in the old spurious shippy moment. It is not consistent. Again, I'm not talking about fandon S/T, who like us for S/W will see ship in ways we don't see and vica versa, again I'm talking about canon S/T here. In this way, PTB will probably treat S/T in the same way as S/J.

Tell you what, canon wise, I'd go with S/W being really good friends, because that can be built on in lots of lovely ways in fandom. The same goes for R/T. We are not going to get S/W (and R/T) riding off into the sunset, this PTB do not do that. We'll get lots of great friendship moments (with sub-textual flirting that perhaps only certain people will see) and the odd canon-S/T shippy moment thrown in.

Have to say, this is only just my opinion, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong by the PTB. But I doubt it, unless they get some writers in (preferably women who know ship)

What a great post! You hit the nail on the head. This is what is making both shipper communities so jumpy and insecure, expecting a romance that is consistent, raelistic, and rings true, but knowing all along that the PTB can't do it. Even now, the PTB are unable to resolve the Sam-Jack ship. What is so hard about throwing in a couple of lines that they are dating or they broke up and Sam is recovering from heartbreak. I'm not even a S/J shipper. I just started watching Stargate for the first time a couple of years ago and that was in reruns that were usually all out of order. So, I usually didn't understand their relationship most of the time, but I guess a lot of it was writing after all.

I think I'm going to resign my self to enjoying the strong S/W friendship for canon and enjoy the romance from fanon.

[smallgirl]

I guess the reason I'm such a proponent of an actual relationship is that if the show goes on for several years and there's no resolution... well, at least one of the characters ends up looking pathetic.

Quite. Also more than likely it would be Weir who would end up looking pathetic because it usually does seem to be the female who suffers the most. Sam's character has suffered more than Jack's over the ship thing. It's the usual double standard. Shep will have his 'kirking' and Weir will end up looking lonely and needy.

[FoolishPleasure]

After watching, "The Hive", just a quick observation John/Teyla-wise:

Spoiler:

John is hauled off to face the Wraith queen and is then brought back to the cell. No one knows what happened to John while he was gone. The guard throws John on the ground. What does Teyla do? Nothing. Zip. Nada. It is Ronon who goes to John and helps him up. Teyla acts as if nothing has happened and doesn't seem the least bit concerned about him - in fact, she doesn't even move. Something is said like, "Are you all right?" (might even have been Ronon who said that line.)

She cares about him? No emotion was shown in any way. Elizabeth would have run to his side worried as heck. In fact, more than once Teyla expressed extreme concern about who? FORD!

Just my take on the eppy.

[SoulSpinder]

Meep! *pokes her head in.* Hewo, guys! Sorry I went away again. x.x Finals crept up on me.

My appologies, I haven't been able to read the last couple pages yet as Im in a bit of a rush, but I promise to come back and reply with a more ontopic and informed post.

But, seeing as this is the forum I am/was most active in and it's rather large, I thought this would be my best bet. I was wondering if there were any loverly Canadian viewers here who could tell me what station SGA is aired on and at what time. You see, it occured to me (stupidly I might add) that I have a Canadian friend just 15 mins away who would be more than willing to record for me. Sooo, being behind over here, you can imagine my excitement when she said she would.

Thankies! Lesse, to keep this slightly on ,I AM working on a Shep/Weir video as we speak. (Finally got the song I needed. ^.^) I can't wait to share it.