Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[VampyreWraith]

I think that's a perfect description of the Sparky dynamic! Especially the part about John knowing she wasn't fooled by his 'charming' bit but that she pretended it was working on her. That's a great way to summarize them!

Sorry I'm skipping over the book discussion--but I refuse to let word of those things rain on my parade. I'm having too much fun with real canon and canon-inspired fanon.

How's everyone's homework going?

Thats what I saw and i personally believe thats what was intended. I'm someone who never wanted to see john and elizabeth get together on the show while she was his boss and i also never wanted to see john and teyla together while she was on his team. I could see that john cared for and respected both teyla and elizabeth for who they were, and had a unique relationship with both women. I also saw more natural chemisty and inderstanding between john and elizabeth. John and teyla sometimes seemed awkward around each other which might have had something to do with cultural differences. I can't see teyla leaving kannan for john, she seemed to care for him and a great deal and as a fellow athosian he was a link to her people while living on atlantis, and it was never even hinted that they were having any sort of problems in season 5. That is pretty much all canon. I can't see john going after teyla and breaking up a family. I can't see john persueing teyla even if she wasnt with kannan, to me they had a sam /daniel feel to them, really good friends and co-workers, and even if they were attracted to each other would never want to complicate there friendship (not that i see sam and daniel as attracted to each other) thats not even getting into the danger and the disruption to the team dynamic that sleeping with a team mate would pose.

[VampyreWraith]

Alternatively, there's:

Spoiler:

Teyla, don't deny yourself the pleasure of true love. Now that Kanaan has realised that his affinity with childcare meant he was a raging homosexual and come out of the closet, you are free to get together with John.

I know you resisted the urge when I was alive, and I thank you for that. I'm sure you knew I had a crush on John, but was too frigid to make a move. Thankfully I didn't have the nerve, an age gap of a year or two is so much more inappropriate than one of nearly ten.

But now that I'm dead, there's no reason for you to hold back. John can bury himself in your heaving bosoms and you can make love at all hours of the day. And when you are visiting your people, John can visit Kanaan to take care of his urges. It couldn't work out any better if I planned it myself.

It'll make me so happy to see the two of you together. You've always been like a daughter to me, I know you'll be able to change John from that annoying co-worker I couldn't relate to into a complete human being.

I'll leave you to muse on that, I want to check up on my other son, Rodney. From what I hear, that lovely young Jennifer is pregnant. I'm so excited to be a grandmother in waiting!!! I could never have children, due to my inability to relate to people in general, and my failed attempts to attract men before I got past childbearing age, so it makes me so pleased to see you and Rodney taking that step. I might die for real this time!

LOL , i nearly died laughing reading that.

[parsifal]

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

[Southern Red]

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

I'll say. They changed their tune pretty fast. But they said a lot of things about how great the cast was early on that changed by S5. LOL

[Eri13]

The coffee scene at the beginning of The Intruder is a good example of that. I think he brought up that promotion again just to wind her up. She called him on it just like he knew she would and he let her know he knew she knew and all the rest of it. I think that was his awkward way of thanking her and telling her that he appreciated how she believed in him. I see that scene as a bit of a conclusion to the end scene in 38 Min when he wouldn't tell her what he was going to tell her.

My rambling point is they understood each other and could have a conversation about a completely different subject than the one they both knew was actually going on. LOL I'm in a rush and don't have time to make sense.

*raises hand like a good student* I finished writing it. Now have to edit. Wow it was like 12 pages. So we'll be looking at a page per minute or so. Writers take heed.!

I perfectly understand why you're skipping. I'm having too much fun being the bad kid here.

Um. What's the homework? *hides from Eri*

Yes! That's what I was thinking, about a page per minute, maybe a little more, so we're looking at minimum about 42-44 pages of story to start.

Homework, Anuna, you bad student, was to write the opening sequence of Echoes from the pre-credits start scene (including the 'previously ons') to the first US written-in break, which is the scene where Elizabeth sees the burned man in the elevator for the first time (the next scene is FH's famous Atlantis Angels scene, with Kate, Teyla and Elizabeth walking in the corridor and talking about Elizabeth's vision).

It's about 12 minutes worth of scene time. Include scene breaks as something like (--/--) marks in your paper. Note the minor scene cliffhangers and the major commercial break scene ender (Elizabeth looking WAYYY concerned). You can find script transcripts at gateworld.net or twiztv.com.

Write it as you see it, in your style. Then we'll compare. I think deadline was supposed to be tomorrow, but we can extend it for everyone else.

It would be really nice if all our writers did this, so they could both get the feel of what it is like to summarize/novelize TV scenes and so they could know how to interweave scenes for that TV feel. All writers need to know what we're aiming for here.

Thats what I saw and i personally believe thats what was intended. I'm someone who never wanted to see john and elizabeth get together on the show while she was his boss and i also never wanted to see john and teyla together while she was on his team. I could see that john cared for and respected both teyla and elizabeth for who they were, and had a unique relationship with both women. I also saw more natural chemisty and inderstanding between john and elizabeth. John and teyla sometimes seemed awkward around each other which might have had something to do with cultural differences. I can't see teyla leaving kannan for john, she seemed to care for him and a great deal and as a fellow athosian he was a link to her people while living on atlantis, and it was never even hinted that they were having any sort of problems in season 5. That is pretty much all canon. I can't see john going after teyla and breaking up a family. I can't see john persueing teyla even if she wasnt with kannan, to me they had a sam /daniel feel to them, really good friends and co-workers, and even if they were attracted to each other would never want to complicate there friendship (not that i see sam and daniel as attracted to each other) thats not even getting into the danger and the disruption to the team dynamic that sleeping with a team mate would pose.

ITA TOTALLY with everything you said. I felt that way too, about the Elizabeth/John relationship and how John would be with Teyla. I just saw more chemistry and connection with J/E, which is why I'm a Sparky. But everything was groundwork and I never expected them to be together onscreen, at least not as how it was first written.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

Interestingly, it seems that Joe F agrees with you on the bad fanfic note - didn't someone at J/T say he wasn't impressedby the new books coming out? LOL. Irony at its best.

Also, I am THISCLOSE to tell JG what I think of her sudden idea to include Elizabeth. She says all three authors like her? Pfffft. If she writers her like she does in her fic, that will be a real proof of liking her. Good grief.

If the authors really liked her, they'd bring her back permanently instead of doing yet another retread of TPTW's habit of dangling her in front of our faces and then taking her away again by the end of the episode. We got tired of it after the first time.

How's everyone's homework going?

Slowly.

*raises hand like a good student* I finished writing it. Now have to edit. Wow it was like 12 pages. So we'll be looking at a page per minute or so. Writers take heed.!

12 pages?!? Good grief!

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

That... that's just sad. They 'loved' her so much at the beginning, and then three years later, they couldn't wait to throw her to the wolves.

I'll say. They changed their tune pretty fast. But they said a lot of things about how great the cast was early on that changed by S5. LOL

Yeah, like how Sheppard's ATA gene was sooo important, for one.

[Scary Kitty]

Yes! That's what I was thinking, about a page per minute, maybe a little more, so we're looking at minimum about 42-44 pages of story to start.

Homework, Anuna, you bad student, was to write the opening sequence of Echoes from the pre-credits start scene (including the 'previously ons') to the first US written-in break, which is the scene where Elizabeth sees the burned man in the elevator for the first time (the next scene is FH's famous Atlantis Angels scene, with Kate, Teyla and Elizabeth walking in the corridor and talking about Elizabeth's vision).

It's about 12 minutes worth of scene time. Include scene breaks as something like (--/--) marks in your paper. Note the minor scene cliffhangers and the major commercial break scene ender (Elizabeth looking WAYYY concerned). You can find script transcripts at gateworld.net or twiztv.com.

Write it as you see it, in your style. Then we'll compare. I think deadline was supposed to be tomorrow, but we can extend it for everyone else.

It would be really nice if all our writers did this, so they could both get the feel of what it is like to summarize/novelize TV scenes and so they could know how to interweave scenes for that TV feel. All writers need to know what we're aiming for here.

I copy-and-pasted the post, and the deadline is June 11. We've still got a week.

So, don't describe the opening credits, just note that they're there? Cool.

[VampyreWraith]

That's a feasible plan and would make a great fic. Check out our comm in my sig for all the details on SS6.

I created an account and posted some thoughts in the comments for ep 1+ 2

[Eri13]

I copy-and-pasted the post, and the deadline is June 11. We've still got a week.

So, don't describe the opening credits, just note that they're there? Cool.

Thanks! I couldn't remember and was too lazy busy to go find my original post.

Yes, don't describe the credits, just note the break where the credits are (we can hyperlink credits in our real stories there). But do describe the 'previously ons' because I think we need to include those.

[Fionnait]

You have been so busy!

On Weir looking old - I find she looked better as seasons progressed. She was so think in the beginning and to me it seemed that - whoever is in charge of that - they didn't know what to do with her looks. I think they went for strict, hard liner leader in S1, but as the season progressed Torri shaped her character into something completely different and there was no way back. They did her hair betterm she had softer makeup, and she gained some weight which looked great on her - just check her out in S3. She was so GORGEOUS then. *sigh

I agree 100%!

Everybody knows that Teyla and Kate were lo... wait, that's not canon either. Nevermind.

I'd actually prefer that

The thing is, I used to be a big tie-in reader. Emphasis on that 'used to be.' What I want to see in a tie-in is adherence to canon and not screwing around pushing agendas that fly in the face of canon and what the fans want to see. It's become very clear over the past several months that these books are not going to adhere to canon, and will be pushing an unpopular agenda. Even more than that, the fact that MGM approved these books, despite the existence of a movie script that's supposed to cover the same ground of resolving the story at the end of the series, really has me disappointed in MGM's handling of the franchise. I may not like everything that TPTW has done with Atlantis, but they are still the arbiters of all things Stargate, and MGM Consumer Products should have deferred to them and waited for the situation with the movie to be resolved before moving forward with any post-series tie-in books, comics, audio dramas, etc. Confusing the fans with two (or more) conflicting stories is not in MGM's best interest, so why are they even doing it? The questionable nature of this project has soured me to tie-ins in general.

Why would anyone pay to read fanfiction, anyways?

Is it sad that I completely get that?

So do I!

thats what i thought, thats y i never got the shes too old for him arguement. As for the characters , sheppard kinda has to be about the same age as joe just based on his military rank , the most you could go is 2 or three yrs younger. And since they used DH's real age for rodney i dont see why they wouldnt do it for the other characters/actors

Well, if you take Elizabeth's carrier into account, in real life she would have to be around 50. But so would a lot of other super-human characters on TV...

[VampyreWraith]

Well, if you take Elizabeth's carrier into account, in real life she would have to be around 50. But so would a lot of other super-human characters on TV...

military rank is a bit different than a diplomatic career though, theres a certain amount of time you have to be at each rank to be eligible for promotion and i think anything after captain has to go through an approval board as well.

[Southern Red]

military rank is a bit different than a diplomatic career though, theres a certain amount of time you have to be at each rank to be eligible for promotion and i think anything after captain has to go through an approval board as well.

That's true and John is just about right for Lt.Col. The way he got the promotion wouldn't have happened either. You have to take a test and get approved by the board. Technically, I guess his is a field promotion.

And Elizabeth is way too young for her position even if she had been on the fast track since college. But then there's Keller, so I guess age doesn't matter in the Pegasus Galaxy. LOL

[nephtys59]

All this talking about Elizabeth being old, Elizabeth harassing John, Elizabeth being written really bad in the next books is getting me depressed.
I really need a hot passion fic, something like The Long Hot Summer, with John saying something like:

"All right then, run, Elizabeth, and you keep on running. Go through the Stargate and disappear. Change your name, dye your hair, get lost - and then maybe, just maybe, you're gonna be safe from me."

and then

"Put the things down, Elizabeth, 'cause I'm gonna kiss you. I'm gonna show you how simple it is. You please me, and I'll please you."

and hear "If You're Not The One" by D. Bedingfield as soundtrack.

Forgive me, I'm going crazy

[Anuna]

From an interview with Wright & Cooper in 2004:

Considered much more of a sure thing is the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, and both Brad and Robert speak in glowing terms of Torri Higginson, who will be taking the role originated by Jessica Steen. “She became the bar, and no one got near it,” Brad says of Torri during the casting process. Robert adds, “We found Torri right away, and fell in love with her. Actually, it was, like, five seconds into her audition, it was halfway through the speech, and Brad said, ‘O.T.W.!’ which just means ‘On To Wardrobe!’” he laughs.

What they both saw in her performance was an ability to play a strong leader without approaching the role as a man would. “What I love about her,” Brad says, “is she’s just strong. Torri is just strong. She doesn’t have to put on any airs.” “And yet she is able to appear vulnerable, and feminine, and all those things,” Robert interjects as Brad continues, “But when she takes command, like when she says to Sheppard in the pilot, ‘Look, just shut up for a minute!’, you don’t feel like it’s…” “…*****y,” Robert finishes.

“She’s just strong,” Brad repeats, “and she’s a great balance for Joe [Flanigan, who plays Major John Sheppard], and smart! In the ‘SG-1’ two parter, we get to see her in her natural element, too, being a diplomat. She’s negotiating with Goa’ulds, and she shows off just how good she can be.” Robert notes, “And I think you see in the two-hour of ‘SG-1’ as well, that the other actors obviously developed an immediate respect for her, and that that came across in the way that the characters saw her now in command of the SGC.”

http://rdanderson.com/stargate/lexic...bradrobert.htm

How things change...

Wow - now that is something way before my SGA fandom days. i never read that. And I agree, she is amazing and smart and did a perfect job of balancing out Joe/John. I can't believe how these guys turned another page and decided she was expendable.

[Falcon Horus]

I can see that more that the other ship, and in all honesty wouldve perfered that

Frak, I can't green you... need to spread it around more.

...the next scene is FH's famous Atlantis Angels scene, with Kate, Teyla and Elizabeth walking in the corridor and talking about Elizabeth's vision....

MY ANGELS!!!

[Probie]

OT

Spoiler:

We are cursed. Yesterday, no electricity in the house and now the line of my phone outside is broken. Can you believe it? Tomorrow, problem with water.lol

Kris: I heard your voice and I heard Joe when he said "putain de merde". Nice french voice.

[pkprd869]

I've got a bit to catch up on, so here goes. Glad ya'll liked the stories. gateraid and VW dig the snark. With the age thing, I'm in my mid 20's. Miss Torri... definitely NOT too old for me. (Thanks for the pic homie) Lizzie's appeal isn't being a stunner (she's no slouch, don't get me wrong). It's more the way she conducts herself: confident, intelligent, and strong. I think she'd stop a clock playing an old school noir type role.

I never read the tie-in books. But I have the attention span of a gerbil, so 200-500 pages is something I can rarely finish. (Dang shiny objects ) The old tbtb excerpt, all I can say is management can pat you on the back with one hand, and shank you in the belly with the other.

[Southern Red]

Wow - now that is something way before my SGA fandom days. i never read that. And I agree, she is amazing and smart and did a perfect job of balancing out Joe/John. I can't believe how these guys turned another page and decided she was expendable.

They said similar things about Joe. He was charming and a great actor and yadda yadda. And then he turned out to have a mind of his own. Dang. LOL

[Anuna]

They said similar things about Joe. He was charming and a great actor and yadda yadda. And then he turned out to have a mind of his own. Dang. LOL

For which I love him,a nd I think we all do. So I still call it a win.

[Scary Kitty]

That's true and John is just about right for Lt.Col. The way he got the promotion wouldn't have happened either. You have to take a test and get approved by the board. Technically, I guess his is a field promotion.

And Elizabeth is way too young for her position even if she had been on the fast track since college. But then there's Keller, so I guess age doesn't matter in the Pegasus Galaxy. LOL

Based on my calculations, John should be about due for his next promotion zone in 2010, too.

*snerks* Yeah, age doesn't seem to matter.

Wow - now that is something way before my SGA fandom days. i never read that. And I agree, she is amazing and smart and did a perfect job of balancing out Joe/John. I can't believe how these guys turned another page and decided she was expendable.

They decided she was expendable because she balanced out Joe/John. Can't have her being the most realistic candidate for the hero's love interest, don'tcha know.

I've got a bit to catch up on, so here goes. Glad ya'll liked the stories. gateraid and VW dig the snark. With the age thing, I'm in my mid 20's. Miss Torri... definitely NOT too old for me. (Thanks for the pic homie) Lizzie's appeal isn't being a stunner (she's no slouch, don't get me wrong). It's more the way she conducts herself: confident, intelligent, and strong. I think she'd stop a clock playing an old school noir type role.

I never read the tie-in books. But I have the attention span of a gerbil, so 200-500 pages is something I can rarely finish. (Dang shiny objects ) The old tbtb excerpt, all I can say is management can pat you on the back with one hand, and shank you in the belly with the other.

And that's just what happened, figuratively speaking.

They said similar things about Joe. He was charming and a great actor and yadda yadda. And then he turned out to have a mind of his own. Dang. LOL

*snerks* Drat those pesky, uppity actors!