Before I Sleep (115)

[Mio]

Oh. And we know that Stargate can do MUCH better old people than most other Series can

[AscendedAncient]

I basically agree with Teal'c's idea. I'm betting the Milky Way Ancients died off from the plague after having tried several different ways to stop it (including the "Window of Opportunity" time machine). Sometime after the failed experiment a group of un-infected Ancients left in Atlantis, and started to look down on time travel because of the failure before. Either the remaining Ancients in Milky Way started the All Mighty Alliance in their waning years, or the Atlantians started it when they returned from Pegasus, for whatever time they had before their relatively miniscule population died out.

but if that were so, wouldnt janus and co use their shiny new timeship to go back in time when the ancients were NOT dead and teach them timetravel, and help them in other ways?

[ShadowMaat]

but if that were so, wouldnt janus and co use their shiny new timeship to go back in time when the ancients were NOT dead and teach them timetravel, and help them in other ways?

It depends on how much time passed between the move back to Earth and the introduction of the plague. It also depends on whether or not Janus was alive (if he'd died of the plague, for example...). Another factor is how much control did he or anyone have over how far back they go. If the Ancients used it and traveled back a further 10,000 years, well, they could have tried leaving a message for themselves, but it's iffy on how well that would have worked. And of course that's assuming that anyone even allows the timeship to exist. If Janus built it in secret and ten kept it hidden (or it was ordered destroyed and he saved it) and then he died without telling anyone where it is (or left clues behind that no one followed), that wouldn't do folks much good, either.

As I said, the time device on P4X-639 might have been cobbled together from imperfectly understood notes left by Janus.

[Lexx]

but if that were so, wouldnt janus and co use their shiny new timeship to go back in time when the ancients were NOT dead and teach them timetravel, and help them in other ways?

No, because as we saw in "Before I Sleep", the Ancients looked down on time travel. The episode is evidence in itself since the Ancients did have a working time machine, but they had it destroyed. Building another one would probably just piss the Council off more, not somehow change their mind.

[Wass]

As I said, the time device on P4X-639 might have been cobbled together from imperfectly understood notes left by Janus.

But the method of time travel and tech was completely different from what Janus used in Before I sleep.

[ShadowMaat]

But the method of time travel and tech was completely different from what Janus used in Before I sleep.

But the purpose for traveling back was different, too, so maybe they just took his theories and applied them in a different manner. And like I said, maybe they didn't have the supplies necessary to do it the way Janus did, so they had to use the stargate as an alternate.

Or maybe Janus went off and had a kid and his son/daughter followed in his footsteps, but wasn't necessarily as good as Dad.

Or it was someone else entirely unconnected. *shrug* I'm just tossing theories into the mix.

[Wass]

Well that may be true it all demands on when the plague appeared before the ancients war with wraith or after the war.

[ShadowMaat]

If the plague affected the Ancients in the Milky Way galaxy, how did they catch it? Did they bring it with them from Pegasus? Did the Wraith visit Earth? The Keeper didn't seem to know about the planet, bur ya never know. Or maybe they sent it through the gate?

[UnknownJ]

If the plague affected the Ancients in the Milky Way galaxy, how did they catch it? Did they bring it with them from Pegasus? Did the Wraith visit Earth? The Keeper didn't seem to know about the planet, bur ya never know. Or maybe they sent it through the gate?

No, they were suffering from it before they left for Pegasus (see Frozen and Rising pt1)

[ShadowMaat]

No, they were suffering from it before they left for Pegasus (see Frozen and Rising pt1)

Hmm... I'd wondered about that, but they looked awfully healthy in BIS. Granted, the plague wasn't part of that storyline, but it might have been nice to see them moving out their sick or something or see one of them look less than perfectly healthy. Or just a throwaway comment about the disease...

Or was there one and I missed it?

[Wass]

If the plague affected the Ancients in the Milky Way galaxy, how did they catch it? Did they bring it with them from Pegasus? Did the Wraith visit Earth? The Keeper didn't seem to know about the planet, bur ya never know. Or maybe they sent it through the gate?

I have been think about that for while if the ancient discovered an out break of plague they must have sealed the place off to stop the spread of the plague now what if the plague was spread through out the MW or where ever the ancients were through the stargate network it would make it impossible to stop the spread of the plague.

[UnknownJ]

Hmm... I'd wondered about that, but they looked awfully healthy in BIS. Granted, the plague wasn't part of that storyline, but it might have been nice to see them moving out their sick or something or see one of them look less than perfectly healthy. Or just a throwaway comment about the disease...

Or was there one and I missed it?

It has been suggested that they didn't take anyone suffering from the plague with them to Pegasus (like Aiyana)

[AscendedAncient]

No, because as we saw in "Before I Sleep", the Ancients looked down on time travel. The episode is evidence in itself since the Ancients did have a working time machine, but they had it destroyed. Building another one would probably just piss the Council off more, not somehow change their mind.

yes.. but why?
why do they look down upon their one opportunity to set things right?
what could be so horrible about it that they prefer to have their race wiped out than use this one thing (time travel) to save themselves?

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe they've had a bad experience with it before.

Or maybe they just have different fundamentals. Why do some people object to testing on animals? Why is stem cell research such a big issue? So what if athletes use steroids? Why shouldn't we mess around with the timeline?

[Liv]

Yes, I'm stepping in a bit late here with my thoughts on the episode, but better late than never. Or something like that.

Let me just start off by saying that we are officially back on track, after the slippery slope that was the Sanctuary episode. Thankfully.

Going into this, I didn't really know what to expect, seeing as how time travel is a tricky thing and not that easy to pull off. But IMO, they did. Very much so. A lot of that I credit to Torri Higginson, who did a remarkable job as Old!Weir. Btw, if anyone's keeping track of my previous ramblings, Weir has indeed moved up on the ladder. She might just be my third favorite character on the show now. Not bad, considering I didn't have high hopes for her in the beginning. I do now.

The Sheppard/McKay banter was in fine form this episode. As always, I might add. Them teasing each other about dying was just hysterical.

McKay: "Hah! Ah, the bitter taste of ultimate failure, huh?"
Sheppard: "Well, if you had just figured out how to fix the damn shield in the first place, none of us would have died."
McKay: "I did everything I could, including valiantly attempting to save your sorry --"



Interesting also to note that McKay died, trying to save all of their lives. I wondered at first if this might be leading up to something. But then, Rodney was willing to take a big risk at the end of Hide and Seek too - albeit one with slightly better odds - turtle broach and all. He was also willing (more or less, anyway) to stay behind in the Jumper with Ford, in 38 Minutes, when things were looking not so bright. I'd say his doom and gloom attitude sometimes overshadows the fact that he's really quite brave in his own way. But I think his willingness to put himself at risk for others is there and I think it has been there from the very beginning. So to sum up: I was surprised at what happened to him, but not all that surprised that he chose to stay behind.

My only complaint, and one I know I'm not alone in, is the fact that Ford is still very much a background character, and that's just not acceptable for someone who is in the main credits of the show. I have a much, much better grasp of Beckett - and for that matter even Zelenka - than I have of Ford. It feels as though the writers don't know what to do with him. I'd even go so far as to say that both Bates and Grodin are, if not more developed, then certainly more interesting than poor Ford. This better change or they may as well put Bates on the team instead. At least then we'd get some good conflict out of it.

Thumbs up for the episode, though.

[ShadowMaat]

My only complaint, and one I know I'm not alone in, is the fact that Ford is still very much a background character, and that's just not acceptable for someone who is in the main credits of the show. I have a much, much better grasp of Beckett - and for that matter even Zelenka - than I have of Ford. It feels as though the writers don't know what to do with him. I'd even go so far as to say that both Bates and Grodin are, if not more developed, then certainly more interesting than poor Ford. This better change or they may as well put Bates on the team instead. At least then we'd get some good conflict out of it.

Amen to this. Why have Ford there at all? They never do anything with him. Even Bates evokes a stronger emotional reaction from me than Ford does (granted, it's an intense dislike of the man, but at least it's an emotion). I want to like Aidan, I do, but there's just... nothing there. He's a tabula rasa. Sure, there have been a few hasty sketches added here and there, but they SEEM like hasty sketches and they don't really add up to much. TPTB have had multiple opportunities to develop Ford's character and thus far he's gotten screwed every time as the story hares off along some other line of thought that doesn't involve him at all... or only in the periphery.

He's a MAIN CHARCTER, for pity's sake! They should TREAT him like one!

[Blueicus]

Very true, Ford still needs a lot of development in my opinion... it's somewhat true that even Zelenka's had more development than Ford (and I like Zelenka). At least we know Ford absolutely sucks at the prime numbers game, even when randomly guessing an answer .

[ShadowMaat]

Beckett, Zelenka and even Bates all have more distinct personalities, quirks and character development than Ford and they're all secondary/recurring characters.

If Beckett is going to be main cast next season, maybe they should drop Ford back or write the poor b***ard off the show. It isn't really fair to anyone to keep him around if they aren't going to do anything with him. Even Teal'c had a few central eps in S1.

[Blend]

Beckett on SGA-1 would be great lol.

[Fox McCloud]

The Ancients were around for a long time before leaving for pegasus. Perhaps they created the Repository as a last ditch effort to keep around their history/knowledge in the face of certain d00m.

So Atlantis left 5 mil years ago, and the inhabitants returned 10,000 years ago, but there were only what...200 Ancients by then. This owuld go well with creating an Alliance with Nox/Asgard/Furlings against the Go'ould. It is also possible that the Furlings were wiped out by Go'ould.

Hell, maybe the Returning Ancients had a part to play with the Tok'ra.

The Plague ridden Ancients left in MW during the 4.990mil year gap of Atlantis most likely Ascended. The ones that went to Pegasus probs Ascended aswell but not all of them.

wibble.