Sanctuary (114)

[Major Tyler]

it seems to me people are confused about how they take human form, some people seem to think that everytime the ancients look human they are desending? they arn't! they are just changing the way they look. they dont lose powers or change anything but the way they look. to truly desend means to lose all powers and go back to your original form. the only reason orlin still knew all the ancient knowladge when he desended was because he was an ancient before hand.

When an Ancient takes the appearance of a human, they are not solid, as Athar was. In "Ascension" Orlin had no physical form until he became entirely human and lost his powers. In "Abyss" Daniel appeared to Jack as a human, but Jack was able to throw a shoe through him, so he obviously was not fully human.

Athar, though, seemed to be able to alternate between forms at will. I believe the other Ancients gave her this unique ability so she could better defend Proculous. It is clear from everything we know about Ancients, that, with the obvious exception of Athar, once they retake human form, they cannot re-ascend without the others.

[Mio]

When an Ancient takes the appearance of a human, they are not solid, as Athar was. In "Ascension" Orlin had no physical form until he became entirely human and lost his powers. In "Abyss" Daniel appeared to Jack as a human, but Jack was able to throw a shoe through him, so he obviously was not fully human.

Athar, though, seemed to be able to alternate between forms at will. I believe the other Ancients gave her this unique ability so she could better defend Proculous. It is clear from everything we know about Ancients, that, with the obvious exception of Athar, once they retake human form, they cannot re-ascend without the others.

Or that Orlin just wasn't as good as Athar was at manipulating solid matter. Might be an ability that took a great deal of time to master.... or their ascended abilities can vary from ascended being to ascended being for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about the ascended ancients to come up with a real explanation. Hopefully we'll learn at some point next season.

[kodamawu]

Or that Orlin just wasn't as good as Athar was at manipulating solid matter. Might be an ability that took a great deal of time to master.... or their ascended abilities can vary from ascended being to ascended being for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about the ascended ancients to come up with a real explanation. Hopefully we'll learn at some point next season.

maybe orlin was ascended but not an ancient? or maybe athar is just an older more powerful ancient or something... and i hope they bring her back

[Gothann]

Although you all have intersting points, it's quite possible that most Ascended Ancients are all around the same age (give or take the lifespan of an Ancient). It may have been that Orlin was completely banished from the realm of the other Ancients, making any attempt to regain a human form a permanent one, or that Athar and the others of her cursed kind have been granted access to go to and fro ascencion, yet are bound to the protection of their own planet, forever.

[AsgardCarnage]

opp's i forgot orlin couldn't touch anything.

i guess we will have to wait for the show to actully say what powers ancients have. maybe in season 8 of sg-1 "threads" i think it is will tell us for sure, or atleast give more detail

[KayMan2k]

I was also glad that this episode confirms the Ancients did not refer to themselves as Ancients. Athar always made a point to say something like "those who you call the Ancients". My guess is that they are called Atlanteans (that is what the Wraith call them) and their capital city,their home, was Atlantis.

I had a feeling the whole time that Athar was an Atlantean. The way she walked around Atlantis felt like she has been there before.. and knows how every system works.. exactly. It must be funny to see us try to explain how some stuff works and what machines did what, etc...

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Firstly, this was another fine episode with solid performances by all - even poor Lt Lightly Used got to say a very dramatic "Yes, Sir!" (will this become his "Indeed?")

I wonder if we'll see Chaya Sar again in Before I sleep?

As to the Daniel/Orlin/Chaya Sar thing: Different punishments for different crimes is my guess.

This is how I imagine Ancient politics to be:

Daniel was enlisted into a cult that operates just at the threshold of what the Ancients tolerate. When Daniel even tried to interfere in "matters mortal," Oma had to act quickly to "discipline" her disciple in order to avoid the wrath of the big brass. It was the newbie, or her whole operation. Daniel got the boot - all of it - 100% return to mortal status, "let's not file any paperwork 'cause none of this happened, okay?" type stuff.

Orlin the Ancient-who-figured-out-how-to-ascend, disobeyed the (arrogant, IMO) Prime Directive of the Ancients, but, he being a short-sighted, soft-hearted right wing liberal or some such political leaning, he got a really severe punishment for his crime from the politically left-leaning Ancients in power( arbitrary labels given for the sake of example): Orlin was given the sentence of living the rest of eternity as a genie in a bottle - a being of light with PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER - in a itty bitty living space devoid of people, or he could retake mortal form and eventually die.

Chaya Sar probably killed as many Wraith as the Velonans killed Jaffa/Goa'uld, but she did the killing, whereas Orlin taught the mortal Velonans how to do the dirty work and then these mortals tried to conquor other worlds. Therefore it stands to reason that Chaya Sar's punishment, though severe, would not be as severe as Orlin's.

[HellBound]

What happend to Sheppard in the end? What did Chaya Sar share with him?
If you look at pictures for the siege part 1 sheppard is useing the atlantis defence/attack chair.. Did he maybe get som more info\understanding of the atlantis? Maybe he find the chair..? Must say it one more time, this episode was so great, a magic episode..you can se to hive ships in this episode to

Hope we will see more of Chaya Sar, she was so great to be an "ancient" in the episode!

[kodamawu]

ok this is kinda off the whole "ascended descended" thing (which personally i think its proposterous that we're just going to say that she descends temporarily, but whatever)
uhm for the images from the ep, was i not paying attention or did that scene with her touching the child's face not happen?

[Hatcheter]

I can't believe everybody's overlooking the awesome vfx. The Wraith fleet at the end was amazing. Dozens of Darts buzzing around in every direction, and a pair of hive ships in the distance. We still haven't seen a close up of one of those things yet. They're (cruelly) wetting our appetites for 'The Seige", I think.

[AsgardCarnage]

are we sure them things at the back were hive ships? sure i only saw them for a second but they seemed a bit small to me maybe a diffrent type of ship like a command ship or something?

[kodamawu]

are we sure them things at the back were hive ships? sure i only saw them for a second but they seemed a bit small to me maybe a diffrent type of ship like a command ship or something?

thats a good point...

[Wass]

I alway's thought the Ancients were called the Atlanteans as the wraith refer to them. A;so I think Chaya Sar left some clues in shappered brain which will later help him.

[Ancient-Jaron]

I was also glad that this episode confirms the Ancients did not refer to themselves as Ancients. Athar always made a point to say something like "those who you call the Ancients". My guess is that they are called Atlanteans (that is what the Wraith call them) and their capital city,their home, was Atlantis.

I've thought about this a bit, and always came to the conclusion that they called themselves The Ancients, although I don't know why a race would call themselves that. For instance, all other races referred to them in this way, even races that were seemingly on the same level (Asgard, for instance). Why would the Asgard call them anything but what they called themselves? Surely the Asgard looked up to the Ancients, but even so, I would think they would refer to the Ancients as they knew them, which is probably how the Ancients referred to themselevs.

The other thing is "Nou ani Anquitas". They did write that, although I suppose we could have botched the translation. Although, a person with the Ancient's knowledge did aid in the translation (Jack, The Fifth Race)

AJ

[Wass]

Maybe the changed there name when they came back from Pegasus

[Gothann]

As for the "Sharing", Chaya Sar is an ancient, so was Orlin. Orlin shared with (at the time) Major Carter and they were able to share emotions and some experiences. I'm guessing the same thing happened to Sheppard, but just like Carter he doesn't have any Ancient knowledge.

[Merlin7]

As for the "Sharing", Chaya Sar is an ancient, so was Orlin. Orlin shared with (at the time) Major Carter and they were able to share emotions and some experiences. I'm guessing the same thing happened to Sheppard, but just like Carter he doesn't have any Ancient knowledge.

Carter doesn't have the ancient gene though. My impression is that Chaya wasn't attracted to Sheppard in the same way he was with her. That maybe she sensed his GENE so to speak. So maybe she was able to SHARE more with him because of it. Which I hope is the case. The whole point of Sheppard going to Atlantis was his ability to use the Gene beyond anyone else. SGA needs to make that MEAN Something. That they point out his unique ability to manipulate his fabricated reality in HOME led me to believe it was the show's way of saying that Sheppard is special too. Being that he's the only one with no knowledge of anything STARGATE related before the trip...it would make for very interesting story telling.

[Gothann]

Carter doesn't have the ancient gene though. My impression is that Chaya wasn't attracted to Sheppard in the same way he was with her. That maybe she sensed his GENE so to speak. So maybe she was able to SHARE more with him because of it. Which I hope is the case. The whole point of Sheppard going to Atlantis was his ability to use the Gene beyond anyone else. SGA needs to make that MEAN Something. That they point out his unique ability to manipulate his fabricated reality in HOME led me to believe it was the show's way of saying that Sheppard is special too. Being that he's the only one with no knowledge of anything STARGATE related before the trip...it would make for very interesting story telling.

Although your reasoning is sound, it's also flawed. McKay is on the Gene therapy, yet he couldn't manipulate his own reality in Home. He also didn't attract Chaya, either (of course, it might be because of his annoying rants at her "beliefs").

Though, I'm quite sure that Sheppard having the gene has nothing to do with the sharing. The gene seems to only be an ID marker which is recognizable by ATA machines, with the mind-control being part of the technology tapping into the minds of the user.

Here's the last part. Chaya seems overjoyed to be in the presence of Sheppard, it almost seems purely emotional...

[TechnoBoY]

Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face? In another board I go to their talking like he did. Did he? Huh Huh?

I thought the ep was okay. Not that great but pretty good. Atlantis is living beyond my expectations so far.

[keppiezbt]

Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face? In another board I go to their talking like he did. Did he? Huh Huh?

I thought the ep was okay. Not that great but pretty good. Atlantis is living beyond my expectations so far.

they banged like jackrabbits..i mean they were doing full graphic porn. wow