Fanfic Pet Peeves

[jz9]

However, several years ago, I read a novel by a new author who had been a professor at a college in Eugene, Oregon, and while the story was good, there were misspellings on every single page of that book, and I was sorely tempted to write a letter to the publisher of the book and complain about their proofreading. (I somehow had the idea a Professor at a college would have better writing skills than to let that happen, but I guess not.) I didn't do it, though. I think of things like that, but rarely follow through. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I did notice his next book had fewer typos, though. So maybe somebody else said something.

Yeah, misspellings can be quite distracting. Maybe the professor got a better Word Processor when writing his second book

[Mousie]

[B][COLOR="Green"]

But I can't condemn crossovers, because I really wanted to write a SG-1/Dragonriders of Pern crossover, but I was afraid McCaffrey's lawyers would come after me, her work being on the restricted list

I could be wrong but I'm sure she was going to relax her restrictions. I know she kept a tight control and no fan fiction was allowed but I'm sure I read on her site a while back that she was going to allow it. There has been talk for years about making the books into tv series/films. The last I heard was that it was gathering steam but they needed to show how popular it would be with the fans, other than book sales, and allowing ff would show that. That could have changed again though.

Just looked on her site and here is the link to her rules. http://www.annemccaffrey.net/index.php?page_id=20

I like xovers, I've read a lot that work and a lot that don't. It always comes down to skill of the author really. If they can explain the xover and how the character from show A is in show B's universe in a logical way it can work, if they have a poor explanation it won't.

On the subject of betas. I think some people don't know what the role of a beta should be. You get a young fan girl/boy who writes a story, show it to a like minded friend and they both go "oh my gosh it's so kewl, post it" They are the ones who can't deal with any helpful comments from readers and launch flames back if you dare say anything more than "oh my gosh I loved it rite more"

I beta'd a while back for someone who from the get go wrote good stories and went on to pretty much beta well for herself and write some even better stories.

When I offered to beta I mainly consentrated on grammar, spelling and structure, rather that polt points. If I'd seen any big probs I would have informed her but I was hesitant to question something when the whole point of ff is that the author writes the story how they want it to be.

Sometimes my corrections would slip through, especially if she had sent me a large file to edit. The correct placement of a comma can easily be missed.

[Alipeeps]

Yeah, when I beta I correct grammar and spelling etc and beyond that will make suggestions on things like style (e.g. if the phrasing of a sentence is a little clunky) or content (if I feel things don't read well/are out of character/aren't realistic etc). But I make it clear they are suggestions cos, as the end of the day, it's not my story and not how I would write it and those choices are down to the author. The only time I would correct content as an actual correction as opposed to suggestion would be where there are critical innaccuracies/mistakes - like if the author forgets themself and in one paragraph has a gunshot wound to the left arm and later on has it in the right arm or (unless the story is clearly an AU) directly contradicts known canon.

Luckily the main writer I beta for is great on content and only needs a bit of tidying up of spelling and grammar.

[pilgrim soul]

^If you're talking about me Ali I think "a bit" is being far too kind.

I have a lot of pet peeves most of which have already been mentioned here but I feel the need to vent. These are my personal opinions so, please, no one take offence besides I'm probably guilty of a whole bunch of things other people hate.

• Fic that obviously hasn't been betaed properly. At least use a spell check and if you're writing fic then you must surely have read fic by other people, or at least have had some minor involvement with the online fandom and if that's the case there is really no excuse for misspelling the names of the main characters.
  
  
• Fic that isn't marked properly. If its ship (het or slash) or features, violence/sex/swearing then be fair to your readers and say so up front. Personally I'm pretty open minded but not everyone is and even I've found myself reaching for the brain soap a few times.
  
  
• OOC behaviour. Bad characterisation can ruin a great idea and just because you personally don't like a character or, alternatively, are completely besotted with them, don't twist them into something they are not.
  
  
• OOC dialogue. Just stop and think, can you really imagine the character saying that line on the show? If not, then maybe you should rethink it.
  
  Also, I think further up the thread someone, Skydiver perhaps, talked about swearing and although I agree its not something that should be over used I would rather read the characters using an occasional curse than them saying things like "gosh" or "golly" which just sounds plain ridiculous (unless they're being sarcastic).
  
  
• Mary Sues - There's this wacky young girl with a quirky name who's related to/is the love interest of one of the main characters, she turns up in Atlantis and gets into all kinds of trouble and hilarious scrapes but its all okay because in the end she saves the day and everyone loves her because she's so great. If that sounds like the story you are writing then just stop, seriously just don't go there.
  
  
• People who write summaries along the lines of "I'm not good at summaries" or "Better than it sounds" - if you can't even write a one sentence summary then how am I supposed to have confidence in you authoring an entire story?
  
  
• Song fic - I have nothing to add to that, its just wrong.
  
  
• AU's - now I don't mean an AU such as those that appear on the show I mean the type where they take the characters and transport them into a completely unrelated universe. Like a western fic where the characters are cowboys or something. I want to read about the characters we see on screen, not characters who just share a name and physical appearance with those in the show.

Okay I've finished venting.

[Alipeeps]

That's it hon, let it all out. Don't you feel better now?

[SamJackShipLover]

^If you're talking about me Ali I think "a bit" is being far too kind.

I have a lot of pet peeves most of which have already been mentioned here but I feel the need to vent. These are my personal opinions so, please, no one take offence besides I'm probably guilty of a whole bunch of things other people hate.

Spoiler:

• Fic that obviously hasn't been betaed properly. At least use a spell check and if you're writing fic then you must surely have read fic by other people, or at least have had some minor involvement with the online fandom and if that's the case there is really no excuse for misspelling the names of the main characters.
  
  
• Fic that isn't marked properly. If its ship (het or slash) or features, violence/sex/swearing then be fair to your readers and say so up front. Personally I'm pretty open minded but not everyone is and even I've found myself reaching for the brain soap a few times.
  
  
• OOC behaviour. Bad characterisation can ruin a great idea and just because you personally don't like a character or, alternatively, are completely besotted with them, don't twist them into something they are not.
  
  
• OOC dialogue. Just stop and think, can you really imagine the character saying that line on the show? If not, then maybe you should rethink it.
  
  Also, I think further up the thread someone, Skydiver perhaps, talked about swearing and although I agree its not something that should be over used I would rather read the characters using an occasional curse than them saying things like "gosh" or "golly" which just sounds plain ridiculous (unless they're being sarcastic).
  
  
• Mary Sues - There's this wacky young girl with a quirky name who's related to/is the love interest of one of the main characters, she turns up in Atlantis and gets into all kinds of trouble and hilarious scrapes but its all okay because in the end she saves the day and everyone loves her because she's so great. If that sounds like the story you are writing then just stop, seriously just don't go there.
  
  
• People who write summaries along the lines of "I'm not good at summaries" or "Better than it sounds" - if you can't even write a one sentence summary then how am I supposed to have confidence in you authoring an entire story?
  
  
• Song fic - I have nothing to add to that, its just wrong.
  
  
• AU's - now I don't mean an AU such as those that appear on the show I mean the type where they take the characters and transport them into a completely unrelated universe. Like a western fic where the characters are cowboys or something. I want to read about the characters we see on screen, not characters who just share a name and physical appearance with those in the show.

Okay I've finished venting.

Haha, I think I've seen fic that have just about everything you mention in them

Good point on the summary thing!

[pilgrim soul]

That's it hon, let it all out. Don't you feel better now?

Yes, I can honestly say that I do.

Haha, I think I've seen fic that have just about everything you mention in them

The scary thing is I think I have too.

[Mousie]

Also, I think further up the thread someone, Skydiver perhaps, talked about swearing and although I agree its not something that should be over used I would rather read the characters using an occasional curse than them saying things like "gosh" or "golly" which just sounds plain ridiculous (unless they're being sarcastic).

I've read fics where the author want's the character to swear, because it's in context, but won't actually write the words. So they asterisk it out - f***, d*** and the like. That looks silly, if you aren't prepared to type it don't use it!

[Alipeeps]

^If you're talking about me Ali I think "a bit" is being far too kind.

Not at all. You just have a bit of a blind spot where apostrophes are concerned!

OOC dialogue. Just stop and think, can you really imagine the character saying that line on the show? If not, then maybe you should rethink it.

See now that is actually really good advice that many writers could do with stopping and thinking about. I do actually try to envision scenes in my head as I write them and imagine the characters saying those lines. In the first Doctor Who fic I wrote, I had to really think hard about what the 10th Doctor would say and how he would say it - he is so mercurial and exuberant and trying to accurately convey his speech went a heck of a long way towards getting his characterisation right.

People who write summaries along the lines of "I'm not good at summaries" or "Better than it sounds" - if you can't even write a one sentence summary then how am I supposed to have confidence in you authoring an entire story?

Man, that bugs the heck out of me - as do horrendously badly spelt summaries. If you can't write a 15 word summary without 6 bad spelling mistakes, what the HECK is your fic going to be like?!! "Crap at summaries, please just read"? No thanks. If the summary's bad, I won't even bother taking a look at the fic.

[Katkin]

In no particular order...

Jack, Sam and Daniel all meet at university while in their teens.

Jack and Sam have been secretly married all along. Even tho I am a shipper I HATE THIS.

Jack, Sam, and their adorable twins Grace and Jacob, plot immaterial.

Sam/Daniel pairings.

AnYthing that starts by describing who the characters are and what they look like. WE KNOW THIS.

Any mention of sunkissed golden hair and wide blue eyes.

[Womble]

I've read fics where the author want's the character to swear, because it's in context, but won't actually write the words. So they asterisk it out - f***, d*** and the like. That looks silly, if you aren't prepared to type it don't use it!

Actually, this is a matter of forum censorship. It is sometimes necessary, for characterization reasons, to occasionally use swear words that are banned on "family" boards. In which case you have no choice but to do the asterisk thing- the mods and/or censoring software leaves you no other choice.

[Mousie]

That's understandable, but I seem to remember it was on ff.net or somewhere similar. Somewhere that they wheren't banned or filtered. Maybe it was just the authors sensibilities.

[iamdragonrider]

I would *love* to read a Star Trek TNG/SG-1 crossover!!! Fascinating idea.

And swapping O'Neill with Carter sounds fun!

Unfortunately you are only "wanting" to write, which means when? I'd better not hold my breath.

I've only found a few ST:TNG/SG crossovers, but none of them stood out particularly to me in as much as I added them to my favorites, which is why I want to write one someday, but the delay is in brushing up on my ST knowledge, and settling on a series, either TNG, DS9 or Voyager.

I'm sorry to say I most likely won't write Sam/O'Neill in a body swap... Body swaps are all very much done in my opinion, and that swap the most. I'm still not sure if I will write my own, again, being quite done... but I said the same thing about writing my own kidfic... there were already so many, but I finally let myself be persuaded that the SG Universe was big enough for another kidfic, and Growing Pains was recieved so well that I'm writing a sequel. As for the body swap, I've seen several, genearlly poorly done, S/J, that were really just an excuse for ship, and didn't spend much time exploring the characters, just thier sudden need for one another. And doing Sam/Jack swap, people would expect ship, and I know I wouldn't be able to deliver. I suck at ship because of that little nagging voice that tells me it will never work out as a happily ever after.

I've seen two Sam/Daniel swaps. One is incomplete as of 2 or so years ago, though it was very promising. Another was written by a Jack/Daniel slasher, and though the fic was "gen" you could definitely see the slash leanings, also had a bit of language and sexual content. However, it was absolutely one of the most hilarious fics I've ever read. Unfortunately, the site is gone and I don't know the author. Info posted bellow in the small hope someone might know where it is now.

Spoiler:

the story was called The Other side of the Coin, and it's definitely rated mature/R for language and sexual content.

hedwig: Thanks, hope you enjoy the stuff that's "new" to you as well.

I have to say regarding typos.... many of us posting here on this board for fanfiction seem to also be authors of said fanfic ourselves, and I just have to give thanks for spelling checkers.... because looking at our message posts, it definitely looks like we need them!

Mousie: Thanks for the link, I ill have to look more closely. It doesn't mention crossovers, and I remeber when I had joined the forum there years ago, crossovers were strictly forbidden. (as well as not being allowed to use any of her characters etc....) But perhaps, that Pern/SG-1 crossover might someday occur. I know I saw one recently, but was afraid to look at it, because I have in my mind what I would want to happen. The story also didn't have very many reviews to chapter ratio, which is part of my criteria to see if i want to bother reading. If they've posted 30 chapters and have like 2 reviews... I probably am not interested (yeah, they might have posted all 30 chapters in one night... but in my opinion, why bother like that.. just post it all in one chunk and be done)

My betas and beta'ing came from striking up dialog between authors. Either I left comments on thier fic and they responded, or vice versa, but we came to discover a passion for SG fanfic in each other and continued to write to one another even after the story completed, and those conversations eventually led to "hey, can you take a look at this for me?"

and I think that's why as beta for each other, we feel comfortable in doing more than just grammar, but pointing out flaws as we see them in characterization, and still be able to speak to one another afterwards.

Spoiler:

^If you're talking about me Ali I think "a bit" is being far too kind.

I have a lot of pet peeves most of which have already been mentioned here but I feel the need to vent. These are my personal opinions so, please, no one take offence besides I'm probably guilty of a whole bunch of things other people hate.

• Fic that obviously hasn't been betaed properly. At least use a spell check and if you're writing fic then you must surely have read fic by other people, or at least have had some minor involvement with the online fandom and if that's the case there is really no excuse for misspelling the names of the main characters.
  
  
• Fic that isn't marked properly. If its ship (het or slash) or features, violence/sex/swearing then be fair to your readers and say so up front. Personally I'm pretty open minded but not everyone is and even I've found myself reaching for the brain soap a few times.
  
  
• OOC behaviour. Bad characterisation can ruin a great idea and just because you personally don't like a character or, alternatively, are completely besotted with them, don't twist them into something they are not.
  
  
• OOC dialogue. Just stop and think, can you really imagine the character saying that line on the show? If not, then maybe you should rethink it.
  
  Also, I think further up the thread someone, Skydiver perhaps, talked about swearing and although I agree its not something that should be over used I would rather read the characters using an occasional curse than them saying things like "gosh" or "golly" which just sounds plain ridiculous (unless they're being sarcastic).
  
  
• Mary Sues - There's this wacky young girl with a quirky name who's related to/is the love interest of one of the main characters, she turns up in Atlantis and gets into all kinds of trouble and hilarious scrapes but its all okay because in the end she saves the day and everyone loves her because she's so great. If that sounds like the story you are writing then just stop, seriously just don't go there.
  
  
• People who write summaries along the lines of "I'm not good at summaries" or "Better than it sounds" - if you can't even write a one sentence summary then how am I supposed to have confidence in you authoring an entire story?
  
  
• Song fic - I have nothing to add to that, its just wrong.
  
  
• AU's - now I don't mean an AU such as those that appear on the show I mean the type where they take the characters and transport them into a completely unrelated universe. Like a western fic where the characters are cowboys or something. I want to read about the characters we see on screen, not characters who just share a name and physical appearance with those in the show.

Okay I've finished venting.

Pilgrim Soul, have to agree with a lot of your pet peeves. Spell checks, bad characterizations, and substituting cutesy curse words for real ones. I'm generally not afraid to write in a few mild swears, because I think they are in character, you can't be a soldier or around soldiers without absorbing at least some minor language. Hopefully, I'm not guilty of **** out my swears, but I will, if it's a phrase, leave it trailing ie, Jack says "son of a ..." or perhaps I may write that the character (or another character hears) cursed, but leave it up to the reader's imagination about what that curse was...

In no particular order...

Jack, Sam and Daniel all meet at university while in their teens.

Jack and Sam have been secretly married all along. Even tho I am a shipper I HATE THIS.

Jack, Sam, and their adorable twins Grace and Jacob, plot immaterial.

Sam/Daniel pairings.

AnYthing that starts by describing who the characters are and what they look like. WE KNOW THIS.

Any mention of sunkissed golden hair and wide blue eyes.

Katkin: I agree more or less with your pet peeves (especially secret marriages and why are their kids ALWAYS named Grace and Jacob??) I do disagree on describing the characters... after all, in real bonified published works, where the book is a sequel, so therefore it's unlikely you are reading it without having first read the preceding story in the series, the author always recaps the previous story and describes the characters (which usually makes me skim the first few bits of the story to get down to the meat of the story, unless it's been some time since the release of the first novel, which I suppose is more the point of the recap/description than making someone who picked up the 2nd book first feel less lost)

But aside from that, yes, we know what they look like, but I think a (brief) description of the characters helps to "place" the story. Ie, Carter's rank, the length of her hair, Daniel's hair, Teal'c as to whether or not he has hair, Jack had dyed brown hair in the first two seasons, so describing the amount of gray in it will also help place the season. I'm not saying the author should go into long paragraphs of description, but a sentence or two for each character in the opening segment of a story I believe helps set the time frame. And not limiting to hair/face etc, but work it in with titles and such, recent missions/events. The books published by fandemonium also work in this mild description. Personally, i think it a bit of a requirement.

Of course, descriptions like "limpid blue eyes" are a bit OTT IMHO, and should be sorely reserved for crack!fic

[Alipeeps]

Pilgrim Soul, have to agree with a lot of your pet peeves. Spell checks, bad characterizations, and substituting cutesy curse words for real ones. I'm generally not afraid to write in a few mild swears, because I think they are in character, you can't be a soldier or around soldiers without absorbing at least some minor language. Hopefully, I'm not guilty of **** out my swears, but I will, if it's a phrase, leave it trailing ie, Jack says "son of a ..." or perhaps I may write that the character (or another character hears) cursed, but leave it up to the reader's imagination about what that curse was...

Precisely. There's lots of ways to get around actually using a swear word if you feel it's inappropriate or not permitted on the site where you archive. In fact, I think it can often work better left to the imagination a little. E.g. in a fic I'm working on I wanted Ronon to swear and I wrote it as, "He uttered one of the more colourful Earth curses he’d picked up from the marines." As well as avoiding using a strong curse word, writing it like this also adds that bit more colour to the character - that Ronon, the alien amongst the Earth expedition, picks up Earth swear words from the soldiers. That adds a lot more depth to the story, to me, than simply, ""****!" said Ronon."

[iamdragonrider]

Precisely. There's lots of ways to get around actually using a swear word if you feel it's inappropriate or not permitted on the site where you archive. In fact, I think it can often work better left to the imagination a little. E.g. in a fic I'm working on I wanted Ronon to swear and I wrote it as, "He uttered one of the more colourful Earth curses he’d picked up from the marines." As well as avoiding using a strong curse word, writing it like this also adds that bit more colour to the character - that Ronon, the alien amongst the Earth expedition, picks up Earth swear words from the soldiers. That adds a lot more depth to the story, to me, than simply, ""****!" said Ronon."

And it's certainly more appropriate for Ronan to utter something colorful, perhaps insuuating something anatomically improbable, or questioning the parentage of the person he's cursing at, whether he picked it up, or utters it in his native language with an inflection that needed no translation, than for him to say, "Well, golly gosh, darn gee wilikers! I'll be hog-swaddled!"

[jasminaGo]

And it's certainly more appropriate for Ronan to utter something colorful, perhaps insuuating something anatomically improbable, or questioning the parentage of the person he's cursing at, whether he picked it up, or utters it in his native language with an inflection that needed no translation, than for him to say, "Well, golly gosh, darn gee wilikers! I'll be hog-swaddled!"

You mean Ronon doesn't really talk like that? AUsam_cry2.gif My world just came crushing down on me.

[jz9]

Loved the Ronon bit. Also enjoyed reading all the ranting. LOL!

Dragonrider, please do write a ST/SG crossover, preferably with TNG or Voyager.

[Skydiver]

there's a couple sam/jack body swaps...i'd look on the sam and jack site, cause i think the two i read both end up with them having sex with each other.

[SamJackShipLover]

there's a couple sam/jack body swaps...i'd look on the sam and jack site, cause i think the two i read both end up with them having sex with each other.

Or themselves

I read one, definitely somewhere on the SJ site.

EDIT: I gave a link to the site, but I guess that's not allowed?? It's kind of confusing what you can and can't link.

[Krisz]

I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying reading this thread. I've been reading SG-1 Fan Fiction for years, cringing and shuddering or becoming totally absorbed in stories I've read. It's interesting to break down elements of writing into its parts, and whilst it seems easy to do on the surface, it's not, as the 'Peeves' of the thread title testify.

It seems such a basic thing to create rounded characters and a believable world to place them in, but it's not easy. I absolutely adore the world of Anne McCaffrey's Pern, to me this is a wonderfully successful example of what I mean. I have to admit to trying and failing miserably over the years myself. It is sad that many authors of Fan fic don't accept or even see their faults and this is why a thread like this is born! Those that can't take constructive criticism shouldn't publish in my opinion.

Thankfully there is Fan Fiction out there that successfully keep our SG-1 characters intact and create believable worlds and scenarios for them. These are the Fan fics I like. Being a Jack fic fan, H/C mainly, it's finding the stories that have a good balance of everything. This is not to say that I haven't enjoyed some of the 'super' Jack heroism stories, where he still saves the day when he should have been dead! No harm in some off the wall heroic feats sometimes, when it's written well. A good example of Fan Fic like this and my favourite story is 'Find Trust in the Darkness' by Badgergater.

I've written a SG-1/Star Trek DS9 crossover. It was my first ever Fan fic, unfortunately it is a Marty Stu at his most heroic and wonderful! I wrote it for self therapy after an illness and would never inflict this toe curling work on my fellow Fan fic loving bretheren. I have branched out in other more humourous ways but I still don't think I would ever publish anything of mine.

Having said this, on reading more about the pitfalls of writing being brought up on this thread, it may help me improve. Who knows?....one day! Meanwhile, I will continue to enjoy well written stories by fans like yourselves who care about all the elements that make for good writing.