Turn Left (3011/411)

[ShadowMaat]

Quick question...
Why and how on Earth [or whatever planet in whatever time that was] did 'Bad Wolf' show up everywhere at the end if Rose wasn't manipulating reality?

I assumed it was a leftover from TARDISRose. She/they spread that message across the whole of time and space and just because the plot has technically passed doesn't mean that we won't still bump into it from time to time. Or so I've always thought.

[Pitry]

When she was SupeRose she could see all of time and space, she could probably see Turn Left as well and the need to warn the Doctor so she arranged it then. Methinks?

[nx01a]

The dramatic way in which everything that previously didn't say Bad Wolf suddenly did isn't consistent with how Rose did it. Her references were subtle yet obvious. This was BAM! Bad Wolf everywhere out of nowhere. Rose's references were meant to bring herself to where she needed to be to be... the Bad Wolf.

Spoiler:

I prefer the Dalek Caan explanation. He did it.
It was Dalek Caan. Besides, I guess Caan was doing the same thing to get Donna to where he needed her to be.

[Pitry]

The repeated mentions during series 1 were there in order to draw attention to the phrase - look. Doctor and Rose, Bad Wolf is important! - without disrupting the timeline by beating over their head with a bad-wolf shaped hammer.
there was nothing to disrupt the time line at the end of Turn |Left because the warning was delivered in its proper time, anmd it was urgent enough to use a sledgehammer of the Doctor's head with it.
Methinks

[aboleyn24]

Quick question...
Why and how on Earth [or whatever planet in whatever time that was] did 'Bad Wolf' show up everywhere at the end if Rose wasn't manipulating reality?

This is a big question for me as well. I too assumed it was Rose when she was Bad Wolf, but I am still unsure if that is accurate.

I discussed this elsewhere and they seem to believe it was the tardis itself who did it. Showed examples of the tardis making these types of overt decisions and actions. I am not really on board for this theory either. I suppose its possible since Rose and the tardis do have a special connection that it did it on her bidding as she had contact with it in that alternative reality of Donna's.

[Gate-builder]

When Rose absorbed the vortex, she could see "all is that is, all that was and all that ever could be" IMO she saw what the Daleks would go on to do and put measures in place to make sure the Doctor got there so he could help.

[nx01a]

It's a good explanation, but a better one if offered in the finale. I'd hate to think that Rose's effects as the Bad Wolf are still stretching out across space and time; if that's the case, everthing that happens could easily be explained as her influencing it.

I prefer to think of Bad Wolf as a specific set of incidents that led to the S1 finale. Anything beyond is due to other influence.

[Pitry]

It's a good explanation, but a better one if offered in the finale. I'd hate to think that Rose's effects as the Bad Wolf are still stretching out across space and time; if that's the case, everthing that happens could easily be explained as her influencing it.

I prefer to think of Bad Wolf as a specific set of incidents that led to the S1 finale. Anything beyond is due to other influence.

Spoiler:

But the finale does not say this. The reference to Dalek Caan's manipulation in the finale is strictly about Donna - making sure Donna and the Doctor meet.

[nx01a]

Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or... [ominous music] something else?

Spoiler:

Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.

[Pitry]

Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!

Spoiler:

Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or manipulation by the current manipulator of the time stream du jour?

Eeek. You're absolutely right. Edited my original post.

Re the parts that are relevant to Turn Left and do not include spoilers.
I don't think Rose knew/remembered she made the "Bad Wolf" warning at the end of Turn Left. She did know, however, that "Bad Wolf" are two words that would mean nothing to everyone else but the two of them - thus avoiding the "change of a causal nexus" or whatever it was she gave as a reason to not giving her name - but at the same time would alert the Doctor - because she knows something bad is happening in the universe, she knows the Doctor said the realities are forever closed, and so if he knows she can pass through dimensions, he knows something is very very wrong. Rose herself at the time doesn't know what is going on, just that the Doctor should be alerted. Bad Wolf is the best way without spelling it out.
The rest of hte Bad Wolf bits are a Super!Rose who knows everything and in a bit of Tardis-like humour decided to drop a sledgehammer over the Doctor's head.

[nx01a]

The 'secret code' bit I can buy, but as for more Bad Rose manipulation... If she had all this power and foresaw these events, then

Spoiler:

why didn't she also 'divide the atoms' of the Dalek fleet in the finale?

It could go either way, I suppose. But I prefer my way.

[aboleyn24]

Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or... [ominous music] something else?

Spoiler:

Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.

But Rose herself told the daleks in Doomsday that it was she who destroyed the dalek fleet (in the season 1 finale). I never quite figured out if Rose finally remembered parts or all of what happened or if The Doctor gave her the cliff notes version.

[nx01a]

I'm guessing he gave her the highlights.

[Coco Pops]

In the alternate timeline Donna experiences all the stuff we've seen happens more or less..

So in thie alternate timeline was there The Master? He was the one who ordered the Racknoss ship shot down remember.

[nx01a]

Since the Doctor never went to the future, the Master was never 'revived'. We didn't see the Valiant in the alt. reality since the Master would have helped build it. We didn't hear the soldiers say that their action was authorized by Mr. Saxon since there was no Mr. Saxon. Someone else gave the order to blow the thing out of the sky.

[Coco Pops]

Since the Doctor never went to the future, the Master was never 'revived'. We didn't see the Valiant in the alt. reality since the Master would have helped build it. We didn't hear the soldiers say that their action was authorized by Mr. Saxon since there was no Mr. Saxon. Someone else gave the order to blow the thing out of the sky.

OK that cleared that up thanks........


"ooh stolen Earth is loaded with cheese"

[gateship15]

this is a great episode i love the donna different dementioned thing. i agree that the master wouldn't be revived if he was there.but i belive that like the doctor there may only be one of him since he is a time lord and the time lords use to be able to travel from dememtion to demention with out the risk of meeting themselves. but i don't know if since the time lords shut the rifts that a ultinate master can be made

[Coco Pops]

When Rose absorbed the vortex, she could see "all is that is, all that was and all that ever could be" IMO she saw what the Daleks would go on to do and put measures in place to make sure the Doctor got there so he could help.

If Rose could see all that. then why is it unreasonable for her to have wiped out every single dalek in existence everywhere? The void excuse is just a neat reseet button.... Surely if she sees "all that ever was and all that could be" that also includes alternate realities

Ok I admit maybe I'm being a bit too picky.

[Madeleine]

Seeing =/= noticing

[Coco Pops]

Seeing =/= noticing

Pardon my ignorance but huh?