simple reason asgard ships are better than lantian ships

[2ndgenerationalteran]

While the ancients did perfect their time dialation tech as you say in epiphany the asgard one seemed far superior since it didn't require a ZPM and extended point something light years as oppsed to a small porthion of a planet

It wasnt light years, since they escaped on sublight. And asgard worlds are abundant in neutronium so possibly there were subterranean ion neutrino generators powering the device. It had a huge radius and worked for at least 300 years i believe, so a power source greater than a ZPM was required being that the Odyssey's time dilation field was small in comparison and would have lasted maybe 75 years or so. So maybe hundreds of ion neutrino generators + geothermal vents working together. On the other hand the ancients made a field that had a radius of several miles and had a ratio of 250 to 1. so for the 10,000 years its been around (latest estimate) it would have been working for atleast 2.5 million years. Indicating not one but possibly thousands of ZPMs or the device works more efficiently than the asgard..

[randy23]

On the other hand the ancients made a field that had a radius of several miles and had a ratio of 250 to 1. so for the 10,000 years its been around (latest estimate) it would have been working for atleast 2.5 million years. Indicating not one but possibly thousands of ZPMs or the device works more efficiently than the asgard..

Sorry to interject but the area created by the Ancients' version of a temporal field doesn't necessarily indicate the actual dilation ratio more so how long the field itself could be sustained. Whether it lasts 5 minutes to 10,000years relies solely on the power source, so making the field bigger just used more energy but it probably didn't change the time ratio. Well, that's just my opinion.

[umopapisdn]

Sorry to interject but the area created by the Ancients' version of a temporal field doesn't necessarily indicate the actual dilation ratio more so how long the field itself could be sustained. Whether it lasts 5 minutes to 10,000years relies solely on the power source, so making the field bigger just used more energy but it probably didn't change the time ratio. Well, that's just my opinion.

I think the slower it goes the more energy is used up, they can control it, along with the size, but the speed would make a difference. Also the powersource might not have just been a single ZPM, there could have been many, or even some sort of generator.

[randy23]

I think the slower it goes the more energy is used up, they can control it, along with the size, but the speed would make a difference. Also the powersource might not have just been a single ZPM, there could have been many, or even some sort of generator.

There's no doubt power requirement plays a factor, I'm merely suggesting that [the field] created by the Ancients' in 'Epiphany' should not denote superiority due to its size. Odyssey's time dilation seemed to be much higher given the fact it was only a fraction of a second that equated to 50 years. So, the Asgard design had to have played a role in fully utilizing the power of the ZPM; one reason why it may have lasted only 50 years as oppose to 10,000 years regardless of whether they had more ZPMs lying in wait. There's no evidence to suggest based on Epiphany that the Ancient time dilation device had the same control.

[An-Alteran]

You don't know they are equivalent because you don't know how many ori beams would destroy Atlantis.

A few thousand.

Three days under the fire of 11 Wraith Hive ships and at least 10 Cruisers.

1 Wraith Hive ship fries the Daedalus' shields in but 1 minute.

3-4 shots from an Orii warship fries a normal Daedalus Class ship.

1 minute of Wraith Hive fire equals about 3-4 shots from an Orii ship.

1 Hive, times 10, increase the fire power to at least 15 and maybe as high as 25 times one Hive (including Cruisers) over at least 3 days...

Thousands of Orii blasts.

[umopapisdn]

There's no doubt power requirement plays a factor, I'm merely suggesting that [the field] created by the Ancients' in 'Epiphany' should not denote superiority due to its size. Odyssey's time dilation seemed to be much higher given the fact it was only a fraction of a second that equated to 50 years. So, the Asgard design had to have played a role in fully utilizing the power of the ZPM; one reason why it may have lasted only 50 years as oppose to 10,000 years regardless of whether they had more ZPMs lying in wait. There's no evidence to suggest based on Epiphany that the Ancient time dilation device had the same control.

Also on the planet they didn't need to create everything to sustain life where they needed to on the oddy. I do agree with what you just said

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Sorry to interject but the area created by the Ancients' version of a temporal field doesn't necessarily indicate the actual dilation ratio more so how long the field itself could be sustained. Whether it lasts 5 minutes to 10,000years relies solely on the power source, so making the field bigger just used more energy but it probably didn't change the time ratio. Well, that's just my opinion.

Teyla found the time ratio to be 250:1. Meaning the time elapsed in the field would have been close to 2.5 million years considering the earliest the field could have been built was 10,000 years ago. if the odyssey's field can make 50 years just about equivalent to .2 seconds they match the ancient time ratio. And if they depleted the ZPM and the core in that much time the epiphany field must have had hundreds of thousands of ZPMs especially considering that its radius was much wider than the odyssey's. Even if they used geothermal energy i dont see how that would make a huge difference, it would constantly make some energy to use but very slowly. That or the ancient's time dilation devices are FAR superior to the asgard in power consumption and efficiency.

[jnadreth]

I second that, power generation appears to be one of the Ancients scientific strongpoints considering the Asgard said they failed to produce ZPM like power sources-or at least that is what I thought I heard.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Continue the argument on time dilation but i wanted to say something on topic.

Simple reason Asgard ships probably are not better than Lantian is because what the Ancient and the Asgard created in their past, with their best technologies put into a ship the Ancients would win without a doubt. If you gave each race to put their best on a ship and battle it out the ships may look like this:

Asgard Oneill
Beam weapons.
Time dilation.
Extra ion neutrino generator

Ancient Aurora
Pulse canons
Drones
Lagrange point satellite beam weapon (possibly two since it can be powered with a small power source)
Atlantis style shields
A ZPM.

Feel free to add as many Asgard only technologies to the Oniell but i highly doubt that it would prevail against what the Ancients could do.

[randy23]

Teyla found the time ratio to be 250:1. Meaning the time elapsed in the field would have been close to 2.5 million years considering the earliest the field could have been built was 10,000 years ago. if the odyssey's field can make 50 years just about equivalent to .2 seconds they match the ancient time ratio. And if they depleted the ZPM and the core in that much time the epiphany field must have had hundreds of thousands of ZPMs especially considering that its radius was much wider than the odyssey's. Even if they used geothermal energy i dont see how that would make a huge difference, it would constantly make some energy to use but very slowly. That or the ancient's time dilation devices are FAR superior to the asgard in power consumption and efficiency.

If what you say is true, it still doesn't answer the question of Sheppard's physical condition, and why he didn't possess the body of a sickly geriatric in "Epiphany" like the SG1 team in "Unending". Just a few seconds in the Ancient field - John should have died of old age even before Rodney could regroup and realize the situation dealing with the dilation. Right?

[2ndgenerationalteran]

huh? For every second we have sheppard has 4 min and 10 sec. for every hour we have he has 250 hours= 10 days and 10 hours. If it took us a day to get him only 250 days would have passed and it took only several hours, and he said he was there for months.

[randy23]

huh? For every second we have sheppard has 4 min and 10 sec. for every hour we have he has 250 hours= 10 days and 10 hours. If it took us a day to get him only 250 days would have passed and it took only several hours, and he said he was there for months.

But my question is, if the time dilation ratio of both the Ancient and Agard devices are all equal, why did John only spend months, why not years like the SG1 in "Unending"? Remember the SG1 team only had a fraction of a second to slow down.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

The ratio is not the same. The Asgard time dilation (in Unending) slowed down time to the point that it almost stopped. Epiphany's time dilation merely slowed it down so that 5 minutes equaled about a day. But that clearly has no bearing on which is better.

But, I would say that the reason the Asgard technology was better was so that the SGA team could win. Though I would argue that the Ancients are capable of that level of technology as well. If the Ancients could make Atlantis millions of years ago, and have it still be the most powerful vessel in Stargate history, powered by 3 ZPMs that is, then they could definitely have made their warships more advanced. Atlantis's shielding, even with one ZPM, is more powerful than that of an Ancient warship. And its hyprdrive technology was mroe advanced than that of the Asgard (at least the Daedalus's hyperdrive technology). Which leads me to believe that it was mere arrogance that kept the Ancients from creating better warships.

[randy23]

Regarding the time dilation, yes, there is no bearing as to whose time dilation technology is better in terms of performance unless if [the situation] demands for it.

Apart from that,personally, I think the Ancients probably fought with what they perceived to be their strongest ship (Aurora-class)given the circumstances which surrounded their conflict with the Wraith, I mean, the Ancients did have settlements numbering in the hundreds, and in a coursse of century lost all of them to the Wraith. That should have been more than enough incentive to build stronger ships. Even then it seems, numbers is what played a bigger factor as to who was the victor.

[!!??]

Regarding the time dilation, yes, there is no bearing as to whose time dilation technology is better in terms of performance unless if [the situation] demands for it.

Apart from that,personally, I think the Ancients probably fought with what they perceived to be their strongest ship (Aurora-class)given the circumstances which surrounded their conflict with the Wraith, I mean, the Ancients did have settlements numbering in the hundreds, and in a coursse of century lost all of them to the Wraith. That should have been more than enough incentive to build stronger ships. Even then it seems, numbers is what played a bigger factor as to who was the victor.

Well the wraith at first didn't have those numbers. If you seen Spoilers of war you would know they were losing. The ancients also had limited resources and a short time to build the ships. They were winning at first so they thought any ship that was easy to build would be ok. After the wraith gained the upper hand they may had even less time and resources. So the ancients were capable of building a better ship. Plus the ancients have about equal numbers to asgard and could make more while the asgard would always have the numbers they started with or dwindle.

[umopapisdn]

Continue the argument on time dilation but i wanted to say something on topic.

Simple reason Asgard ships probably are not better than Lantian is because what the Ancient and the Asgard created in their past, with their best technologies put into a ship the Ancients would win without a doubt. If you gave each race to put their best on a ship and battle it out the ships may look like this:

Asgard Oneill
Beam weapons.
Time dilation.
Extra ion neutrino generator

Ancient Aurora
Pulse canons
Drones
Lagrange point satellite beam weapon (possibly two since it can be powered with a small power source)
Atlantis style shields
A ZPM.

Feel free to add as many Asgard only technologies to the Oniell but i highly doubt that it would prevail against what the Ancients could do.

Also the ancients had a dakara device, if they put one of them on a ship they could kill the inhabitants and take over the ship. The asgard would lose miserably, also all of the other weapons we've seen on SG1 and atlantis, imagine a working arcturus for power generation.

[JSPuddlejumper]

"Asgard Oneill
Beam weapons.
Time dilation.
Extra ion neutrino generator

Ancient Aurora
Pulse canons
Drones
Lagrange point satellite beam weapon (possibly two since it can be powered with a small power source)
Atlantis style shields
A ZPM."

Dakara device did not work against Adria's shield. So there are ways around it. The Ancients were too Nox like to use it. AoT only proved it again...

The Asgard did create a black hole...

LOL. BTW, Ancient NEVER had beam weapons on their warships, not a single one. LOL. Atlantis like shields? Do you think if the Ancients could do that, they would have, the Wraith war lasted many many years.

Beam weapons may not have been feasible on their ships: Drones, pulse cannons, shields being a power hog...And beam weapons being the most advanced ship weapons, they may not have time to create them.

Ancient pulse cannon's do virtually no damage to Asgard shields (as shown). Drones will do damage, but virtually nothing before the Aurora get's blased with the beams.


Lantean satellite took forever to charge.

The Asgard would win the war.

[Buba uognarf]

"Asgard Oneill
Beam weapons.
Time dilation.
Extra ion neutrino generator

Ancient Aurora
Pulse canons
Drones
Lagrange point satellite beam weapon (possibly two since it can be powered with a small power source)
Atlantis style shields
A ZPM."

Dakara device did not work against Adria's shield. So there are ways around it. The Ancients were too Nox like to use it. AoT only proved it again...

The Asgard did create a black hole...

LOL. BTW, Ancient NEVER had beam weapons on their warships, not a single one. LOL. Atlantis like shields? Do you think if the Ancients could do that, they would have, the Wraith war lasted many many years.

Beam weapons may not have been feasible on their ships: Drones, pulse cannons, shields being a power hog...And beam weapons being the most advanced ship weapons, they may not have time to create them.

Ancient pulse cannon's do virtually no damage to Asgard shields (as shown). Drones will do damage, but virtually nothing before the Aurora get's blased with the beams.


Lantean satellite took forever to charge.

The Asgard would win the war.

The Asgard can collapse a sun into a blackhole they can't use that as a weapon.

The dakara weapon went through the replicator enhanced shields which are probably at least as advanced as the Asgard shields as they had Asgard knowledge. So it is quite likely it would go through the Asgard shields.

The satellite beam weapon was the same size as a Goa'uld mothership, it wouldn't be hard for the Ancients to take out all the extra stuff and use just the weapon on their ships. We've never seen the Asgard with anything but pulse weapons on their ships too. With a ZPM powering all the above ancient technologies would be a doddle as ZPMs are vastly superior to anything the Asgard have.

The pulse weapons were doing large damage to our ships in BAMSR e.g. our shields can't take much more So the pulse weapons are effective. Assuming all the best tech from both races was present the Asgard would be owned, the beams wouldn't be able to penetrate ZPM power shields before thousands of drones ripped it apart.

How did the satellite take ages to charge? And even if it did with a far superior power source the charge time would drop dramatically. Hell the Asurans could build a beam able to fire non stop and that could fire through a stargate.

[JSPuddlejumper]

I am batting a 100% so far about what the Asgard tech would to the Aurora's far before BAMSR'd. As I said previously many times: The Asgard upgraded Daedalus class battleships OWN'd Aurora's, and they will again and again. This is without Asgard generator or ZPM to max out their shields!

Beams on Auora's, Atlantis like shields? LOL. Techno possibilities (both very highly unlikely for the Ancients). The Asgard already have the beams, and in AoT, it showed that the Asgard were far closer to Atlantis like city shields on their regular ships than the Ancients ever were.

BAMSR'd proved to most that the Asgard would have owned the Ancients in war.

The Ancient's were good at one thing: RETREAT, hide, do nothing. AoT proved it again. Ancients are closer to Nox in that sense.

Creating a black holes cannot be used as a weapon? LOL. Can you imagine the insane damage and destruction a black hole would do to a solar system and surrending systems??? Complete devastating in a short amount of time.

The Asgard could make any sun become a black hole.

Lantean satellite did take forever to charge (like the Ori satellite). I do not think a 'proper' powersource would make that much of a difference, it is how the weapon was constructed. Asuran's had nearly infinite ZPM's, and could create things far far faster than the Ancients or any biological being could ever do...and they were taken out pretty easily as well (like the Ancients).

[Buba uognarf]

I am batting a 100% so far about what the Asgard tech would to the Aurora's far before BAMSR'd. As I said previously many times: The Asgard upgraded Daedalus class battleships OWN'd Aurora's, and they will again and again. This is without Asgard generator or ZPM to max out their shields!

Well the Aurora's didn't have ZPMs either so that's a moot point. They can own Asuran aurora's who aren't firing bucket loads of drones. And the Ancients could build better ships. You have so far done nothing to prove the technical marvels of the Ancients that own the Asgard in every respect couldn't be put on a ship.

Beams on Auora's, Atlantis like shields? LOL. Techno possibilities (both very highly unlikely for the Ancients). The Asgard already have the beams, and in AoT, it showed that the Asgard were far closer to Atlantis like city shields on their regular ships than the Ancients ever were.

We've never seen Aurora shields powered with a ZPM so you have no leg to stand on. And we have no idea that the Aurora is even their most powerful ship. Hell the Asurans made an impenetrable satellite which was also relatively tiny. Atlantis like shields are unlikely, beams are not. They could fit on the ships.

BAMSR'd proved to most that the Asgard would have owned the Ancients in war.

The Ancient's were good at one thing: RETREAT, hide, do nothing. AoT proved it again. Ancients are closer to Nox in that sense.

How did it prove the Asgard would have owned the Ancients? The Ancients at their peak would have ripped the Asgard apart. They were originally beating the Wraith after they started losing they through bigger and better ships at the Wraith but couldn't overcome the overwhelming numbers. You have such a bias opinion. Try to be more open instead of chatting crap about the Asgard all day.

Creating a black holes cannot be used as a weapon? LOL. Can you imagine the insane damage and destruction a black hole would do to a solar system and surrending systems??? Complete devastating in a short amount of time.

That can't be used directly against a ship though can it? Use your head. So yes the Asgards ability to collapse stars into black holes won't help them in a fight with the Ancients.

The Asgard could make any sun become a black hole.

So? The Ancients probably could as well.

Lantean satellite did take forever to charge (like the Ori satellite). I do not think a 'proper' powersource would make that much of a difference, it is how the weapon was constructed. Asuran's had nearly infinite ZPM's, and could create things far far faster than the Ancients or any biological being could ever do...and they were taken out pretty easily as well (like the Ancients).

It didn't take forever to charge. Almost straight after the first hive was destroyed, Mckay was asking why Grodin hadn't fire again. A better powersource would obviously help! It would be able to supply more energy faster so the buffer could fill faster. Why would they design a slow firing weapon? They weren't taken out easily. All ships involved in the battle were taking heavy damage another minute and we probably would have been wiped out.