Why are the writers so afraid of romantic relationships between the characters?

[Linda06]

Yeah i liked the Buffy/Angel scenario but wasn't he not only in 2 season's,i never really took to the Buffy/Spike ship...That just didn't do it for me!

I mean it's not fair,i never get to have my favourite ships together....X-Files with Scully and Mulder,man i had to wait like what was it,about 10 years before anything happened,SG-1 was 10 years too and nothing,Star Trek DS9 with Kira and Odo it was 6 years,Bones with Brennan and Booth yea still waiting.
I have to wait that long for something to happen that in the end i lose interest and just don't care either way cause it's taken so long

[Jeyla4ever]

Again, Atlantis is the only show I've ever being obsessed with...Thank God. But I did watch maybe 20 episodes of Buffy in its entirety, and I have to say I loved Spike and Buffy. Never cared for Angel/Buffy. To me it was like they were attracted because they both knew it could never be. Spike and Buffy was different. But that was killed too.

Mulder and Scully, that was interesting...the tension was there but the show never really delved deeply into the sexual tension between them rather it concentrated on their friendship and loyalty to one another.

They didn't feed off each other, in my opinion, sexually like others do in the show. But, yes...I too wanted them together. But the show was so well written that it almost made it okay!

SG-1 didn't do that...for me, one minute Sam acted like she was in love with Jack and the next minute she didn't. There wasn't any consistency.

I guess I'm in agreement that if they are going to show sexual tension, that they follow it through in a timely manner because it does get tiredsome and it does become boring and not belieable because in real life you either do it and get it over with or you move on.

[Frostfox]

The thing is, the writers started to insinuate a Sam/Jack sexual relationship, but never went anywhere with it. As I said before, develope it, or leave it altogether.

'Ship or get off the plot.

ie. give us a mature, real relationship a la Firefly's Zoe and Wash or Farscape's Aeryn and John or B5's Delenn and Sheridan or don't bother.

FF

[SpyDude]

'Ship or get off the plot.

ie. give us a mature, real relationship a la Firefly's Zoe and Wash or Farscape's Aeryn and John or B5's Delenn and Sheridan or don't bother.

FF

"'Ship or get off the plot!" A great way to summarise the whole point.

[Killdeer]

Frost...I actually think this is what has attracted me to Shep/Teyla more so than any other ship in my entire life where I"ve even started writing because of it...Their connection and bond was not simply physical, it was emotional. They trusted each other unconditionally from day one and it had nothing to do with it being a sexual thing. Clearly, John ruled that aside the minute he chosed her as part of his team. I think more than anything John realized that for him it would be best to develop something stronger and lifelong than make it a one night fling and never see her again. He saw in her something much more and if they ever do become more than friends, this friendship that they've formed is more special and will last longer.

See, Jack didn't choose Sam. He actually didn't want her. John had a choice. He could have developed something more with Teyla and he could have easily swayed her, whether she'd accepted or not is a different story, but the point is that John saw more in Teyla than a sexual attraction and she in him as well.

And that's what I love about the possibility of these two, they began with more than simply an attraction, and yet you know that it is there as well.

I think the difference here Camy is that you see romance as adding to John and Teyla's relationship, and I see it as taking away. I don't know that that's a viewpoint that can be resolved. I feel that the relationship between John and Teyla is richer for not having romantic/sexual overtones, and I can't see my opinion on that changing, I'm sorry. While I'm not against all ships (although there've been very few if any in Stargate I could get behind), I find friendship, family, and team to be much more compelling.

I'm not against romance or ship, if it's done right, nor am I saying its a lesser thing than platonic friendships. But unfortunately as Frostfox said, in our sex focused culture, ship is all over the place, and strong platonic relationships between men and women are pretty rare. I'd like to see John and Teyla stay as one of those rare treasures.

[Killdeer]

'Ship or get off the plot.

ie. give us a mature, real relationship a la Firefly's Zoe and Wash or Farscape's Aeryn and John or B5's Delenn and Sheridan or don't bother.

FF

Unfortunately Stargate hasn't done that yet IMO, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[Jeyla4ever]

'Ship or get off the plot.

ie. give us a mature, real relationship a la Firefly's Zoe and Wash or Farscape's Aeryn and John or B5's Delenn and Sheridan or don't bother.

FF

I have to agree with this one....but I highly doubt that this will be the motto for Stargate writers! they like the dancing back and forth bit!

[Jeyla4ever]

I think the difference here Camy is that you see romance as adding to John and Teyla's relationship, and I see it as taking away. I don't know that that's a viewpoint that can be resolved. I feel that the relationship between John and Teyla is richer for not having romantic/sexual overtones, and I can't see my opinion on that changing, I'm sorry. While I'm not against all ships (although there've been very few if any in Stargate I could get behind), I find friendship, family, and team to be much more compelling.

I'm not against romance or ship, if it's done right, nor am I saying its a lesser thing than platonic friendships. But unfortunately as Frostfox said, in our sex focused culture, ship is all over the place, and strong platonic relationships between men and women are pretty rare. I'd like to see John and Teyla stay as one of those rare treasures.

Nah, that's boring! I"ve had the platonic for three years..and yet, I think that if Teyla and John were ever to actually become a couple, we'd probably see their romance better through a glance, a smile, a night amidst the stars in the balcony as oppose to a bed scene...which is what I think would make this unique as well. I don't want soap, I want drama. For me the writers killed anything that could be there for Sam and Jack by season 5 and they killed anything for me for Daniel and Vala in Unending.

I saw more in that episode for Sam/Tealc than anything else. LOL

And that's okay Kill. I like John and Teyla's friendship as well. It's what has atrracted me to them as individual characters and as possible relationship.

[Frostfox]

I have to agree with this one....but I highly doubt that this will be the motto for Stargate writers! they like the dancing back and forth bit!

It's not that I don't think they are capable of writing a mature relationship, I just haven't seen it yet, so I'd rather they left it alone.
And because they do write relationships so badly, they don't make anyone happy, the fans of the relationship or those like me who don't like them. So why bother? Just let it be, fans will still see what they want to see, leave it flexible, don't offend anyone, don't set it in stone, let the fans write and 'ship who they want.

FF

[Linda06]

'Ship or get off the plot.

ie. give us a mature, real relationship a la Firefly's Zoe and Wash or Farscape's Aeryn and John or B5's Delenn and Sheridan or don't bother.

FF

hmm,nice way to sum it up They should either do one or the other,not both!

I think the difference here Camy is that you see romance as adding to John and Teyla's relationship, and I see it as taking away. I don't know that that's a viewpoint that can be resolved. I feel that the relationship between John and Teyla is richer for not having romantic/sexual overtones, and I can't see my opinion on that changing, I'm sorry. While I'm not against all ships (although there've been very few if any in Stargate I could get behind), I find friendship, family, and team to be much more compelling.

I'm not against romance or ship, if it's done right, nor am I saying its a lesser thing than platonic friendships. But unfortunately as Frostfox said, in our sex focused culture, ship is all over the place, and strong platonic relationships between men and women are pretty rare. I'd like to see John and Teyla stay as one of those rare treasures.

mmhmm,me think's you and Camy are never gonna agree on this subject....Am i right or am i right

[Killdeer]

Nah, that's boring! I"ve had the platonic for three years..and yet, I think that if Teyla and John were ever to actually become a couple, we'd probably see their romance better through a glance, a smile, a night amidst the stars in the balcony as oppose to a bed scene...which is what I think would make this unique as well. I don't want soap, I want drama.

You know, I think if they'd built a relationship from the beginning, like they did with John & Aeryn on Farscape, I might possibly be more inclined to accept it. Although there would still be the team/command issue. But having it just be close platonic friendship for three years and then suddenly I'm supposed to believe a romance? I know the shippers have seen stuff all along, but I swear, before I started posting here at GW I would never have guessed from the show that John & Teyla were even an option! So anything between them would really feel out of the blue, even more than what happened with Jack and Sam.

For me the writers killed anything that could be there for Sam and Jack by season 5 and they killed anything for me for Daniel and Vala in Unending. I saw more in that episode for Sam/Tealc than anything else. LOL

Yes, same here - on this we can agree! I was on the fence about Daniel/Vala before Unending, since I do like both characters. I could have gone either way, but Unending pretty much killed it dead for me. And yeah, Sam/Teal'c. It had never occurred to me, but I'm not sure it's such a bad idea. *hides from shippers *

And that's okay Kill. I like John and Teyla's friendship as well. It's what has atrracted me to them as individual characters and as possible relationship.

Yes, we can agree on that also. Well, except the relationship part. ((((hugs Camy))))

[Frostfox]

mmhmm,me think's you and Camy are never gonna agree on this subject....Am i right or am i right

Yeah, but isn't it nice that you can agree to disagree like adults, rather than sinking into insults and mud slinging?
There is no right or wrong answer, just differing opinions, it's nice to be amongst people who can discuss this in a mature and sensible way.

FF

[Killdeer]

It's not that I don't think they are capable of writing a mature relationship, I just haven't seen it yet, so I'd rather they left it alone.
And because they do write relationships so badly, they don't make anyone happy, the fans of the relationship or those like me who don't like them. So why bother? Just let it be, fans will still see what they want to see, leave it flexible, don't offend anyone, don't set it in stone, let the fans write and 'ship who they want.

FF

I completely agree.

mmhmm,me think's you and Camy are never gonna agree on this subject....Am i right or am i right

*grins sheepishly* ummm. Probably not.

[Jeyla4ever]

hmm,nice way to sum it up They should either do one or the other,not both!



mmhmm,me think's you and Camy are never gonna agree on this subject....Am i right or am i right

shhhh...I almost have her! I can feel it!

[Killdeer]

shhhh...I almost have her! I can feel it!

It's not really stealth if they see you coming.

[bluealien]

For 2 characters to have a romance doesn't mean we are going to see them smooching every five minutes or witnessing anything remotely sexual. Having a relationship doesn't have to change the friendship between characters. It just means that they admit that they care about each other more than friends. I don't see anything wrong with that and if it is handled consistantly I don't see why it shouldn't work. If John and Teyla were to admit to each other that they had feelings for one another... why should this take away anything from their friendship or weaken either one of them. Caring about someone is not a weakness.
Both John and Teyla would always put Atlantis before themselves or any relationship. I would never doubt either of their abilites to do this.... Teyla was going to shoot John in TLG to save lives... even though Shep/Thalen had told her that he cared for her more than she knew. John and Teyla are close to all their team mates and consider them family and have already proved that they would give their lives for each other... so again how would things change if they were having a relationship.

Neither one would be skipping through the halls of Atlantis holding hands or showing probably any overt signs of affection in public as they are both very private people. All we need to have are odd moments here and there where they say a few words to each other or hold each other in private after a difficult mission. Having a relationship could open up many ways to give us more insight into both characters and I don't think any of us want any sappy, mushy relationship.. but again John and Teyla are not that kind of person...

The writers should be capable of doing this and making it work.. we have already seen from the scene in Sateda that both characters shine when they are baring their souls and letting us see what is behind the barriers they erect. Subtle little moments are all that are needed to bring us a relationship and we have certaintly had the groundwork laid already for John and Teyla and taking the next step seems to be the only logical thing to do... but will the writers go the full mile or will they veer off in countless directions and end up achieving nothing. Throwing in various love interests as they did to Sam don't really achieve anything except annoy fans. They are usually boring to both shippers and non shippers... shippers because they don't want to see one of their ship being paired off with some random love interest that they couldn't care less about, and non shippers pretty much for the same reason... meaningless time wasted with a character that no one really cares about.

[Linda06]

Yeah, but isn't it nice that you can agree to disagree like adults, rather than sinking into insults and mud slinging?
There is no right or wrong answer, just differing opinions, it's nice to be amongst people who can discuss this in a mature and sensible way.

FF

Yes it is nice,it'a a breath of fresh air discussing something and it not turning into an argument,everyone has there own different opinion and it's nice to discuss these difference of opinions in a nice mature fashion....After all everyone's entitled to they're own opinion and the world would be a very boring place if we all liked the same thing........Even though i'm right,, jk!

Ooh you go Camy,i think you got Killdeer

Well maybe not!

[Jeyla4ever]

Neither one would be skipping through the halls of Atlantis holding hands or showing probably any overt signs of affection in public as they are both very private people.

Crap, there goes that idea! LOL

[Jeyla4ever]

Ooh you go Camy,i think you got Killdeer

Well maybe not!

She's a little stubborn, but that's okay! I've bombarded her with only half of the stuff that I got....she has no idea the back up plan that I have! LOL

Blue, beautifully written...that's what I was trying to say in all my other postings!

[Killdeer]

Maybe guiding this thread away from J/T specifically, I think TV in general is moving away from the old model of Male lead/Female lead, and forcing the two together. Or maybe it's just the shows I watch - I don't know. There's still a lot of shows like that out there, but more and more you're seeing team-based shows where the romantic interests for the characters are off-screen or recurring characters. Or, if they're both main characters, they're supporting, not leads. Take CSI:NY for example. There's a romance between Danny & Lindsey, but they're both supporting characters, not leads. Romances for Mac and Stella, the two leads, have been with recurring characters, not other main characters, and definitely not each other. I think maybe there's also a move to focus on family relationships as well - I can think of three different shows with a strong focus on brother/family relationships. Possibly people are getting tired of the old model of male lead/female lead must be paired up. There's some shows it still does work for (Farscape), but I think it's moving away from that.

Possibly part of that could be said to originate with Joss Whedon himself. Joss loved to play with pairings, put them together, and take them apart. But he had a core group, Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles, who always stuck together in the end, regardless of their romantic relationships with other people. I don't know. I'm just kind of thinking out loud here. Or in text, as the case may be.

I guess my thinking here is...if Atlantis just stays with recurring characters for romantic interests, they wouldn't necessarily be unusual. It would be following the current trend in team-based shows. Although it would be a little atypical for Stargate itself, which tends to annoy shippers and non-shippers alike.