Wraith/Rep Spoilers

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

This is probably something the Wraith could do all along but only actually put into motion now.

It doesn't make sense that the Wraith and Asurans lived side by side like that for so many centuries without discovering each other. What likely happened is that some sort of deal was reached. The Wraith had no reason to attack the Asurans because they weren't edible, and the Asurans had no reason to attack the Wraith being that they hated their old masters just as much as the Wraith did.

So basically it looks like both sides decided on some sort of "we won't mess with you if you don't mess with us" deal and now eventually someone broke it, there was a conflict of some kind and the Wraith hit the "off" switch on the reps.

This also explains why the reps have been contained to one planet for so long. Like everything else in pegasus they continue to live at the whim of the Wraith. The "plan" to deal with them Oberoth talked about was likely either, completely non existant like Ronon thought, or represented them finally figuring out some way to defend themselves from the Wraith hacking attacks that would stop them cold if they tried anything agressive.

What doesn't make sense is why the Wraith didn't just use the threat of the offswitch to blackmail the Asurans into building them an intergalactic hyperdrive. Maybe that was the point of conflict that caused the Wraith to shut them off, they asked for the drive and the Asurans refused, enraging them?

My thoughts on this:
*The Wraith don't tolerate rivals that could challenge them so if they had such an ability, they would have done so long ago to defeat the Asurans. Not a definate but something to consider because remember that they destroyed any Human civilization that would rise technologically because they don't want to be threatened by something that could end up like the Lanteans which the Asurans represent in some way.

*The Asurans have no need to expand beyond Asuras. They don't appear to want some form of empire to govern or slaves to rule plus they seem very isolationist so they could perfectly be happy on their little world without any need to leave. I mean they have perfect power requirements, 'food' requirements and everything so there is no reason to leave beyond expansion.

*Every single part of the Asurans are programmed to attack the Wraith so, while not stated, their plan may consist of active deployment of their very own nanites on the Wraith to kill them. We have seen the nanites actively and aggressively target and exterminate Wraith tissue already so it wouldnt be that bad a plan depending on whether they can actually deploy the nano virus on Wraith ships and worlds. Alternatively, they could just kill all Humans and starve the Wraith.

*Its not that inconceivable that the Asurans remained undetected for so long. As we know, Wraith hyperdrives are kind of poor in terms of speed and depending on where Asuras is located, the planet could very well have been too far for a Wraith ship to actively stumble upon it but thats just conjecture at this point.

[Buba uognarf]

I think Wraith hyperdrives are more limited by having to stop between jumps to recover from hyperspace radiation then because they're actually really slow...We know when they pause it's generally about 14 hours (No Mans Land) so that would really build up over long distances.

[Sauron18]

Um, I think I should mention that we already know what the Asuran plan which you are all talking about is.

Their plan is the same plan they had thousands of years ago, and the same plan which the Ancients feared so much that they decided to destroy the Asurans. In fact, the first we ever saw of the Asurans was a part of the plan.

The Asuran plan was to make a nanovirus that would kill all humans, eliminating the Wraith food supply and killing them. This is the virus we saw in "Hot Zone", and it was made by the Asurans to kill humans to kill wraith.

Yes, the Asurans were a nanovirus originally, but they weren't the Hot Zone nanovirus, since the objective of both "strains" is entirely different, and the Asurans have been described on and off the show as the creators of the Hot Zone Virus.


These villains were introduced as the makers of the Hot Zone virus, that's mainly how the writers thought about them before season 3 (before we got more story), and the Hot Zone virus' purpose was already discussed in the episode it appeared in.

So yeah, as far as their plan goes, we already know what it is.

[jenks]

Where exactly is it stated that they were stupid enough to not know that there were other galaxies in the universe that contained life?

Human life?

The Wraith Keeper in 'Rising II' said: "It is not among our stars."

Therefore they had to know that there was other stars out there besides their own.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, that doesn't mean there is any reason for them to think other stars are out there with their food source on them.

Asurans for all intensive purposes are Lanteans, they have the same tech, knowledge etc. So if Wraith got access to their database, then I'm fairly sure other galaxies would be in there somewhere for them to find. As well as the way to modify their hyperdrives to get there.

Doubtful, or they'd have followed them to Earth, wouldn't they?

[marty2006]

Human life?



I'm not sure what you're getting at, that doesn't mean there is any reason for them to think other stars are out there with their food source on them.



Doubtful, or they'd have followed them to Earth, wouldn't they?

Well yea they would have followed them to earth if they had been on good terms with the ancients.

[jenks]

Good point, I forgot that they weren't able to harm them at that point. Even so, I still aren't convinced that they had all of the knowledge that the Ancients had.

[Ouroboros]

My thoughts on this:
*The Wraith don't tolerate rivals that could challenge them so if they had such an ability, they would have done so long ago to defeat the Asurans. Not a definate but something to consider because remember that they destroyed any Human civilization that would rise technologically because they don't want to be threatened by something that could end up like the Lanteans which the Asurans represent in some way.

I'm wondering if it's possible that the Wraith don't even look at the Asurans as a people/rival so much as another piece of technology. They've certainly left plenty of other dangerous ancient tech lying around.

*Every single part of the Asurans are programmed to attack the Wraith so, while not stated, their plan may consist of active deployment of their very own nanites on the Wraith to kill them. We have seen the nanites actively and aggressively target and exterminate Wraith tissue already so it wouldnt be that bad a plan depending on whether they can actually deploy the nano virus on Wraith ships and worlds. Alternatively, they could just kill all Humans and starve the Wraith.

The Asurans can't even kill Weir with the nanobots. As far as I'm concerned it's because the ancients never finished them or they were a failure in this sense. Until i actually see them kill a Wraith with nanobots I'm not buying it. And if I do I'm going to ***** to high heaven about how stupid it is given that they couldn't kill Weir, who as you may have noticed, hasn't spontaniously regenerated many otherwise fatal gunshot wounds lately.

All attacking nanobots would do would be damage cells, likely 1 or a few at a time. We already know that Wraith cells can multiply/regenerate so fast that they can seal up macroscopic holes in seconds. Attacking them with nanomachines would probably represent the single stupidest most ineffectual way you could ever possibly go about attacking them.

*Its not that inconceivable that the Asurans remained undetected for so long. As we know, Wraith hyperdrives are kind of poor in terms of speed and depending on where Asuras is located, the planet could very well have been too far for a Wraith ship to actively stumble upon it but thats just conjecture at this point.

The thing about the Wraith having slow drives is largely a myth. They're slow in the sense that they're not Asguard or intergalactic level but they're still more than fast enough to explore their own small galaxy over the course of 10,000 years.

As human predators they would scour every possible corner of their domain in search of humans to eat. It simply doesn't make sense that they didn't know about the Asurans.

[sparkygate]

Find the wraith and our allies have something in common.
(Refers to a season four episode and a revelation to come)

Seems like will we be pairing up with the wraith again BUT THIS time to fight probably against the asurans

One of our own the enemy courts.
(Refers a season four episode - maybe a little harder to figure out).

Maybe refering to the travellers where they end up battling the wraith/asurans??

Isolation imposed and a grand battle looms,
(Refers to an early season four episode).

Probably referring to adrift but maybe micheal comes around and help out with the power requirements and gives us a warning of what is to come??

While an alien contact this player dooms.
(Refers to another early season four episode).

Againa maybe something to do with the travellers helping or not helping out with the battle against the wraith and asurans??

BTW: POEM is From Joe's Blog

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

I'm wondering if it's possible that the Wraith don't even look at the Asurans as a people/rival so much as another piece of technology. They've certainly left plenty of other dangerous ancient tech lying around.

True but none that could actively go and attack them like the Asurans could. The other pieces of Ancient technology left behind were practically relics that could do nothing without an operator while the Asurans are an intelligent foe that could be a very dangerous menace to them. Its the difference between leaving a gun behind in an empty room and leaving a gun behind with something that could pick it up and turn it against you. Would be very foolish of the Wraith to have ignored the Asurans if they met them long ago unless of course a more valid explanation was given.

The Asurans can't even kill Weir with the nanobots. As far as I'm concerned it's because the ancients never finished them or they were a failure in this sense. Until i actually see them kill a Wraith with nanobots I'm not buying it. And if I do I'm going to ***** to high heaven about how stupid it is given that they couldn't kill Weir, who as you may have noticed, hasn't spontaniously regenerated many otherwise fatal gunshot wounds lately.

All attacking nanobots would do would be damage cells, likely 1 or a few at a time. We already know that Wraith cells can multiply/regenerate so fast that they can seal up macroscopic holes in seconds. Attacking them with nanomachines would probably represent the single stupidest most ineffectual way you could ever possibly go about attacking them.

Remember that the nanites were created to kill Wraith. Not Human. The fact that it works easily against Humans might be an interesting 'side effect'. We do know that the Wraith share some qualities similar to Humans so its possible that those qualities that relate them to Humans allow the nano virus to do what it does on when it infected people in the Hotzone episode and when Weir was infected.

Also, the regenerative abilities of the Wraith are proportional to their feeding so technically speaking if the nanites worked to damage the cells which the Wraith was forced to heal then eventually it would die because it would need to regenerate more then feeding. Besides, we have no idea about the limits of Wraith healing ability since, if the above was the case, then the gunshots they faced dozens of times in the show shouldnt have managed to kill them. Its perfectly possible that a tiny machine can circumvent a Wraiths healing ability since it is working to destroy an enemy from the inside. Not something I would consider ineffectual personally.

The thing about the Wraith having slow drives is largely a myth. They're slow in the sense that they're not Asguard or intergalactic level but they're still more than fast enough to explore their own small galaxy over the course of 10,000 years.

As human predators they would scour every possible corner of their domain in search of humans to eat. It simply doesn't make sense that they didn't know about the Asurans.

I can't really say more on this really beyond the possibility that Asuras is located in an insignicant corner of the Pegasus galaxy but nothing confirms that so meh. Since, if the Wraith did discover the Asurans, then I think they would have fought straight away with no deals being made. The Goa'uld tended to shy away from things that were much more advanced then them while the Wraith don't appear to give up as such and tend to crush whatever resistance they find. So either the Wraith and Asurans don't know each other yet or have met one another and been fighting for hundreds of years already but this doesnt make sense since the Asurans have shown to have no ships or anything so their world would have been bombarded by Wraith Hiveships for ages while their shield protected them. Simply put, the Wraith would have done to the Asurans what they did to Atlantis and constantly attack it until it was destroyed.

[Sauron18]

The plan they have and had was to use the virus they made, the one from "Hot Zone", to kill the Wraith food supply.

A popular misconception in the fandom is that the Asurans and the Hot Zone virus were one and the same or part of the same experiment, but that's not so, the episode and the comments of TPTB tell us otherwise, the Asurans made the virus, who's purpose was already explained in the episode it appeared in.

[GateMan2000]

I think that they both didn't know of each other and somehow to come find out. I guess we will learn in the first half of the season.

[Ouroboros]

True but none that could actively go and attack them like the Asurans could. The other pieces of Ancient technology left behind were practically relics that could do nothing without an operator while the Asurans are an intelligent foe that could be a very dangerous menace to them. Its the difference between leaving a gun behind in an empty room and leaving a gun behind with something that could pick it up and turn it against you. Would be very foolish of the Wraith to have ignored the Asurans if they met them long ago unless of course a more valid explanation was given.

I still think my original explanation is probably the best one. They both know about each other but they leave each other alone because there's no reason for them to fight. The Wraith can't eat the Asurans and the last thing the Asurans would want to do now is fight the Wraith like their hated masters wanted them to.

Remember that the nanites were created to kill Wraith. Not Human. The fact that it works easily against Humans might be an interesting 'side effect'. We do know that the Wraith share some qualities similar to Humans so its possible that those qualities that relate them to Humans allow the nano virus to do what it does on when it infected people in the Hotzone episode and when Weir was infected.

The nanites being designed to kill Wraith is largely irrelevant. It might be important in the case of something like a poison that relied on chemical reactions with Wraith biology or a virus but nanites attack by causing microscopic physical damage. If they were up to destroying a regenerative Wraith body in this manner then they should absolutely devestate a normal human one which can't repair itself even a fraction as fast.

Also, the regenerative abilities of the Wraith are proportional to their feeding so technically speaking if the nanites worked to damage the cells which the Wraith was forced to heal then eventually it would die because it would need to regenerate more then feeding. Besides, we have no idea about the limits of Wraith healing ability since, if the above was the case, then the gunshots they faced dozens of times in the show shouldnt have managed to kill them. Its perfectly possible that a tiny machine can circumvent a Wraiths healing ability since it is working to destroy an enemy from the inside. Not something I would consider ineffectual personally.

The only thing that seems to put a Wraith down conclusively is massive head or chest trauma sustained in a short span of time. IE you dump a whole clip into them and ruin their biological functions so badly and so quickly that the body can't repair itself before the wraith expires. I'll reinterate that if the nanomachines were actually capable of causing this level of damage in this sort of timeframe they would have killed Weir in seconds. However what actually happened was they got owned by white blood cells. That means that they're so pathetic they can't even destroy attacking white blood cells to defend themselves. They need to rely on masking their pressence so that the meger immune system of an ordinary human woman does not destroy them wholesale. One wonders how they cause any damage at all if destroying cells is something they find so challenging.

I can't really say more on this really beyond the possibility that Asuras is located in an insignicant corner of the Pegasus galaxy but nothing confirms that so meh. Since, if the Wraith did discover the Asurans, then I think they would have fought straight away with no deals being made. The Goa'uld tended to shy away from things that were much more advanced then them while the Wraith don't appear to give up as such and tend to crush whatever resistance they find. So either the Wraith and Asurans don't know each other yet or have met one another and been fighting for hundreds of years already but this doesnt make sense since the Asurans have shown to have no ships or anything so their world would have been bombarded by Wraith Hiveships for ages while their shield protected them. Simply put, the Wraith would have done to the Asurans what they did to Atlantis and constantly attack it until it was destroyed.

Like I say above I think the only reasonable conclusion is that they do know about each other but don't fight because neither of them really has a motive to.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

The nanites being designed to kill Wraith is largely irrelevant. It might be important in the case of something like a poison that relied on chemical reactions with Wraith biology or a virus but nanites attack by causing microscopic physical damage. If they were up to destroying a regenerative Wraith body in this manner then they should absolutely devestate a normal human one which can't repair itself even a fraction as fast.

The only thing that seems to put a Wraith down conclusively is massive head or chest trauma sustained in a short span of time. IE you dump a whole clip into them and ruin their biological functions so badly and so quickly that the body can't repair itself before the wraith expires. I'll reinterate that if the nanomachines were actually capable of causing this level of damage in this sort of timeframe they would have killed Weir in seconds. However what actually happened was they got owned by white blood cells. That means that they're so pathetic they can't even destroy attacking white blood cells to defend themselves. They need to rely on masking their pressence so that the meger immune system of an ordinary human woman does not destroy them wholesale. One wonders how they cause any damage at all if destroying cells is something they find so challenging.

The point being that perhaps its Asuran programming that makes them less effective against Humans then the Wraith. I mean the ATA gene prevented them from going against the Ancients so perhaps, similarly, their programming did not include to harm Humans so they go about it a different way.

Also, we have no idea on how the nanites work against the Wraith either beyond that one tissue sample they introduced into Weir which they reacted violently to. Perhaps, they work on a slower pace which would allow the Wraith to walk back into its Hive and unknowingly which would make sense when introducing such a weapon into the enemy.

Anyway, this is all speculation really until the episode airs.

[Sauron18]

I think that they both didn't know of each other and somehow to come find out. I guess we will learn in the first half of the season.

The Asurans certainly knew about the Wraith, they were made to kill the Wraith, and they formed a plan to kill the Wraith. The Ancients thought it was a bit bloodthirsty and that's why it wasn't fullfilled, but the plan could certainly be completed if they wanted to.

As for the Wraith knowing about the Asurans.....they might, but I think the Wraith don't want the Asurans to suddenly want to kill them again, especially since they can take steps the Ancients couldn't, steps that would assure the destruction of the Wraith.

[fallenexile452]

i'm having thoughts of an asuran jumping into a wraith matrix style to kill it.

[sparkygate]

My Theroy
You know i think the hot zone virus back fired...

like the anicents sent it out to kill the wraith which it probably did but the wraith were smart enough to get around it or get rid of it in which it caused the creation of the asurans and when the anicents found out they destoryed the asurans because there experiment went out of control...

Also remember the wraith were a formable race in which they actually ended up defeating the anicents/ pusshing them back to the MW galaxy


Just a theroy

[Sauron18]

The Hot Zone Virus wasn't created by the Ancients, it was created by the Asurans to eliminate the humans in the pegasus galaxy (and therefore kill the wraith), and is the reason why the ancients decided the Asurans were dangerous.

[GateMan2000]

The Hot Zone Virus wasn't created by the Ancients, it was created by the Asurans to eliminate the humans in the pegasus galaxy (and therefore kill the wraith), and is the reason why the ancients decided the Asurans were dangerous.

It makes a lot of sense if they did want to kill the Wraith by killing all of the humans. No food no Wraith. I think this storyline might be a decent one if done right.

[Sauron18]

It makes a lot of sense if they did want to kill the Wraith by killing all of the humans. No food no Wraith. I think this storyline might be a decent one if done right.

Well, the show tells us this was basically their original plan, because that's the explanation given for the "Hot Zone" virus in the episode.

However, the rest we didn't learn until "Progeny"

[jenks]

I'm still not entirely sure why they want to destroy the Wraith at all.