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    Time dialaton field question (Unending spoilers)

    From what I understood, can't a time dialation field only speed up or slow down time, not reverse it? Or was this a new type of time dialation device that could do it all?

    I am also interested in the actual/theoretical physics involved, is any of this even possible?

    Vala,

    #2
    Basically she found out how to reverse time in general, but only within a localized area. It had nothing to do with the time dialation field other than that it allowed them to go back without creating a paradox. Since she could not reverse time for the whole universe the time dialation field being there allowed her to reverse time for the general area without effecting anything else. Notice though that she went back about a minute before the dialation field was formed and it effected the Ori ship as well which was beyond the bubble otherwise it and the energy beam would've been moving at the same rate as Sg-1 was inside the ship. So, reversing time in a localized field and a time dialation field are not actually connected since either can be done without the other.
    Last edited by Sicktem; 13 March 2007, 09:40 PM.

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      #3
      Well, this could get rather long...

      Having a local observer experiencing time differently than a distant location is standard physics... relativity. Whether accomplished via velocity or gravity, two clocks can indeed tick differently!

      However, there are loads of problems with the ficitional Asgard time dilation devices.

      Examples:
      "Unending":
      Spoiler:
      SG-1 should not have been able to peer outside of the bubble through the windows, and see the Ori weapon trail. Light itself is affected by the logical necessity of the Asgard device... otherwise any light based weapon (e.g., a laser) could easily have been used to destroy the ship even within the dilation bubble.


      Spoiler:
      Doing the time reversal back to the start of the bubble is logically possible (disregarding physics here) as to the outside world it would have seemed as if nothing had happened. There are probably paradoxes contained within Teal'c remaining aged, but not obviously.

      Note that what happened to Teal'c is the exact inverse of what happens in relativity. If Teal'c had been on a spaceship going nearly the speed of light for a right amount of time, then returned to Earth, everybody else would have been 50 years older and he only a few days.

      Comment


        #4
        Makes me wonder if the Lantians were far superior in that field than Asgards. They had an entire region placed in a bubble, which remained under such a field for many millenia, though the ratio was not as high.
        One ZPM was enough on that planet, and it was largely suggested that it would still be enough for a long time more.

        However, we don't know how taxed the Odyssey's ZPM was previous to this plot attempt.
        The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by freetoken View Post
          Well, this could get rather long...

          Having a local observer experiencing time differently than a distant location is standard physics... relativity. Whether accomplished via velocity or gravity, two clocks can indeed tick differently!

          However, there are loads of problems with the ficitional Asgard time dilation devices.

          Examples:
          "Unending":
          Spoiler:
          SG-1 should not have been able to peer outside of the bubble through the windows, and see the Ori weapon trail. Light itself is affected by the logical necessity of the Asgard device... otherwise any light based weapon (e.g., a laser) could easily have been used to destroy the ship even within the dilation bubble.


          Spoiler:
          Doing the time reversal back to the start of the bubble is logically possible (disregarding physics here) as to the outside world it would have seemed as if nothing had happened. There are probably paradoxes contained within Teal'c remaining aged, but not obviously.

          Note that what happened to Teal'c is the exact inverse of what happens in relativity. If Teal'c had been on a spaceship going nearly the speed of light for a right amount of time, then returned to Earth, everybody else would have been 50 years older and he only a few days.
          It's good to see that someone noticed there should be two Tealc's in the final reality, but nobody noticed the "physical displacement" issue. The ship was moving....'Sam' generated a time dialation field around it, but it was still moving....and should have been moving a few zillion times faster because it was carrying the field with it!

          Also, good catch about the light from the Ori weapon being visible across the field boundary. The light outside of the bubble should have been red-shifted below the audio level. The energy inside the bubble should have been so high that if you had "thrown a penny out the door" as you passed the Ori ship, due to conservation laws - the energy the penny would have had to shed would have annihilated the Ori ship....and possibly the solar system they were battling in! But this is sci-fi.

          The real issue is that the ship should have left the immediate area faster than the Ori sensors could track it because it's movements (along with everything else on the ship) were greatly sped up and it was carrying the generator with it.

          But that would have eliminated a terrific story and some great character interaction.

          Comment


            #6
            I don't think she used the Dilation tech to reverse time, she said:

            : I did it.
            : Did what?
            : Figured out how to reverse time in a localized field...

            To me, this implies that she figured out how to reverse time INSIDE a time dilation field. This doesn't neccesarily mean she used the field itself to do it.
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              #7
              Originally posted by s09119 View Post
              I don't think she used the Dilation tech to reverse time, she said:

              : I did it.
              : Did what?
              : Figured out how to reverse time in a localized field...

              To me, this implies that she figured out how to reverse time INSIDE a time dilation field. This doesn't neccesarily mean she used the field itself to do it.
              I don't get how she maneged to reverse it beyond the moment when she implemented the field even with a couple of seconds to spare...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
                Makes me wonder if the Lantians were far superior in that field than Asgards. They had an entire region placed in a bubble, which remained under such a field for many millenia, though the ratio was not as high.
                One ZPM was enough on that planet, and it was largely suggested that it would still be enough for a long time more.

                However, we don't know how taxed the Odyssey's ZPM was previous to this plot attempt.
                Not even close.
                50 years passed on the inside of the Ody while less than a second passed on the outside.

                The Lantian Ascendomatic Village was waaaaaaaay slower. Months passed on the inside while hours passed on the outside.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Konrad9 View Post
                  Not even close.
                  50 years passed on the inside of the Ody while less than a second passed on the outside.

                  The Lantian Ascendomatic Village was waaaaaaaay slower. Months passed on the inside while hours passed on the outside.
                  I think you have that backwards. Odyssey's time dilation field had a slower rate of time than the sanctuary in Epiphany.

                  The ratio in Epiphany was 250:1
                  The ratio in Unending was ~1,577,880,000:1
                  Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                  1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Castolan View Post
                    It's good to see that someone noticed there should be two Tealc's in the final reality, but nobody noticed the "physical displacement" issue. The ship was moving....'Sam' generated a time dialation field around it, but it was still moving....and should have been moving a few zillion times faster because it was carrying the field with it!

                    Also, good catch about the light from the Ori weapon being visible across the field boundary. The light outside of the bubble should have been red-shifted below the audio level. The energy inside the bubble should have been so high that if you had "thrown a penny out the door" as you passed the Ori ship, due to conservation laws - the energy the penny would have had to shed would have annihilated the Ori ship....and possibly the solar system they were battling in! But this is sci-fi.

                    The real issue is that the ship should have left the immediate area faster than the Ori sensors could track it because it's movements (along with everything else on the ship) were greatly sped up and it was carrying the generator with it.

                    But that would have eliminated a terrific story and some great character interaction.

                    I kind of understand this but dang I need to have a person present so I can break it down so I can understand it more easily. Headache and all.
                    I just need to figure out a way to use 99% of my brain like Merlin..

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                      I just need to figure out a way to use 99% of my brain like Merlin..
                      If you could use 99% of your brain, you'd be in a constant state of epileptic seizure.
                      Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                      1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jarnin View Post
                        If you could use 99% of your brain, you'd be in a constant state of epileptic seizure.
                        Why is that?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                          Why is that?
                          Because every neuron in your brain would be firing at the same time.
                          Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                          1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jarnin View Post
                            Because every neuron in your brain would be firing at the same time.
                            being able to use 99% of your brain doesnt mean you use it all at the same time, besides since no one can use 99% of their brain we really dont know what would happen if a person could.
                            A seizure is a short circuit of the brain, even if a person used all 99% of their brain at the same time doesnt mean that the brain would short circuit. Most likely it would function properly with the brains pathways defined to avoid a short circuit. Then again there is no basis for camparison. maybe in a few milliion years? If we dont blow ourselves up that is.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              being able to use 99% of your brain doesnt mean you use it all at the same time
                              Yes, that's exactly what it means. You use 100% of your brain right now, just not at the same time.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              besides since no one can use 99% of their brain we really dont know what would happen if a person could.
                              Yes we do. Like I said, you'd be in a constant state of epileptic seizure.

                              Read this for more information.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              A seizure is a short circuit of the brain
                              No, a seizure is the physical representation of "abnormal, excessive or synchronous neuronal activity in the brain."
                              Synchronous neuronal activity means that all of the neurons in a portion of your brain are firing and receiving signals at the same time. So, if you're using 99% of your brain, you would be in a state of constant seizure, or more likely you'd be dead.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              even if a person used all 99% of their brain at the same time doesnt mean that the brain would short circuit.
                              That's exactly what it means. It would be like having a lightning storm inside your head. You wouldn't be able to function at all.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              Most likely it would function properly with the brains pathways defined to avoid a short circuit.
                              If you're using 99% of your brain, those pathways would also be in use.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              Then again there is no basis for camparison.
                              Sure there is. Google it and follow the links.

                              Originally posted by Darkdreams View Post
                              maybe in a few milliion years? If we dont blow ourselves up that is.
                              In a few million years our brains will evolve into something different, but it still won't be operating at 99% because it would have the same result.
                              Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                              1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                              Comment

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