The Doppelganger Pre-Airing Discussion and Speculation Thread (Spoilers)

[Mitchell82]

I'll agree that this does sound alittle like Cold Lazarus but it also sounds completly different. I am fine with them using a similar plot as long as it's done well.

[PG15]

They really need a computer program that goes "Uh! You used htat plot before!" whenever they begin retreading scripts, because I think that's the only way to prevent them. THey may think the audience doesn't remember, or that the SGA audience hasn't seen SG1, but fans are a lot smarter than the writers give them credit. Yes, there are so many stories out there, but I hate watching an SGA and going "Geez, I saw the SG1 epsiode already," which has happened.

Uh, I seriously doubt that, especially when Rob Cooper says so right in the article that it's inspired by Cold Lazarus. Really, this attitude of "the writers must think we are dumb, so we should think less of them" is highly annoying.

And don't worry, it's not just you.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you'll be hard pressed to find an original story idea in Atlantis that's not a "retread" of SG1 stories simply because SG1 had more than 200 of them; it's done pretty much everything out there.

[parisindy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you'll be hard pressed to find an original story idea in Atlantis that's not a "retread" of SG1 stories simply because SG1 had more than 200 of them; it's done pretty much everything out there.

i respect your opinion but i refuse to believe sg-1 is the be all and end all of all sci fi shows

different characters, different shows, different stories... you wouldn't think its so hard.. gads if fanfic writers can be more original ... why can't tptb?

[Lorr]

Of the spoilers that I have seen so far for DG, the ONLY thing that is similar with Lazarus is the fact that the entity comes from a crystal. That's it. As was mentioned, in Lazarus, Jack was REPLACED by the entity. In DG, the entity INVADES Sheppard and uses him to infect the team and others. In Lazarus, the entity was a sole survivor of a species just trying to protect itself that discovers that his "host" is in pain and doesn't know how to heal. In DG the entity is evil and wants to cause pain, probably just for the fun of it.

Pick any episode of any TV show and I'll bet that we can find it is similar to a dozen others made before it. There have been over 100 years of film and 50 years of TV, in how many countries and languages. It's kinda hard to have a unique story in any genre. The art for the film maker is in how they take the basic premise and present it. The art for the viewer is in how well they suspend disbelieve and set aside preconceived expectations and enjoy the moment.

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

BTW, I loved Phantoms.

[parisindy]

Of the spoilers that I have seen so far for DG, the ONLY thing that is similar with Lazarus is the fact that the entity comes from a crystal. That's it. As was mentioned, in Lazarus, Jack was REPLACED by the entity. In DG, the entity INVADES Sheppard and uses him to infect the team and others. In Lazarus, the entity was a sole survivor of a species just trying to protect itself that discovers that his "host" is in pain and doesn't know how to heal. In DG the entity is evil and wants to cause pain, probably just for the fun of it.

Pick any episode of any TV show and I'll bet that we can find it is similar to a dozen others made before it. There have been over 100 years of film and 50 years of TV, in how many countries and languages. It's kinda hard to have a unique story in any genre. The art for the film maker is in how they take the basic premise and present it. The art for the viewer is in how well they suspend disbelieve and set aside preconceived expectations and enjoy the moment.

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

BTW, I loved Phantoms.

but i'm not talking about all sci fi ..just atlanits/sg-1 and really they should more unique from each other, becuase if they aren't its just the same old thing. once again different characters, different shows, different stories... you wouldn't think its so hard.. gads if fanfic writers can be more original ... why can't tptb? i don't want atlantis to be season 11 of sg-1 or worse rehashed sg-1 reruns... but hey if thats what you like thats cool. Who am i to say? I'm just wanted something more, but obviously thats not going to happen.



phantoms was cool

[sherryw]

Of the spoilers that I have seen so far for DG, the ONLY thing that is similar with Lazarus is the fact that the entity comes from a crystal. That's it. As was mentioned, in Lazarus, Jack was REPLACED by the entity. In DG, the entity INVADES Sheppard and uses him to infect the team and others. In Lazarus, the entity was a sole survivor of a species just trying to protect itself that discovers that his "host" is in pain and doesn't know how to heal. In DG the entity is evil and wants to cause pain, probably just for the fun of it.

Pick any episode of any TV show and I'll bet that we can find it is similar to a dozen others made before it. There have been over 100 years of film and 50 years of TV, in how many countries and languages. It's kinda hard to have a unique story in any genre. The art for the film maker is in how they take the basic premise and present it. The art for the viewer is in how well they suspend disbelieve and set aside preconceived expectations and enjoy the moment.

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

BTW, I loved Phantoms.

Well said Lorr. I have to agree with you especially with the art for the film maker is in how they take the basic premise and present it. In CL the entity was almost innocent in a way discovering that maybe these people weren't so bad, but in DG this entity is evil and wants to hurt. It doesn't matter if it's been done or not. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'm sure RCC and JM will put there own spin on it.

[parisindy]

Well said Lorr. I have to agree with you especially with the art for the film maker is in how they take the basic premise and present it.

i'm a filmmaker i totally get that, but if they keep rehashing stuff from its sister show, i can't say its easy to suspend my belief

but hey its cool you guys like it... i've said my bit

i don't gotta watch it so its cool

[Lorr]

i'm a filmmaker i totally get that, but if they keep rehashing stuff from its sister show, i can't say its easy to suspend my belief

but hey its cool you guys like it... i've said my bit

i don't gotta watch it so its cool

I don't get what is really being rehashed.

[cshawzye]

You know, in the end I'd rather have the writer's say "Yeah, I was inspired by this other piece that we did." Instead of trying to say that it's a completely different piece of television and the connection to the other is simply a coincidence. That, I believe would be more insulting to my intelligence as a viewer. I'm sure they've thought about the product they're producing and have tried to make entertaining television that wasn't simply repeating itself.

That said, they do run the risk of just copy catting that other piece of television. Though, it seems like there are enough differences between the crystal life in CL and what we're going to see in this episode. It doesn't seem like it will be just the same rehashed stuff. And if it develops the characters the way it has the potential to than that'll make it even better.

Actually, I'm rather interested in this episode. It sounds good and to be honest I'm kinda glad they're going back to the crystal life forms. Gives the Stargate universe a bit of continuity, IMO.

[sherryw]

You know, in the end I'd rather have the writer's say "Yeah, I was inspired by this other piece that we did." Instead of trying to say that it's a completely different piece of television and the connection to the other is simply a coincidence. That, I believe would be more insulting to my intelligence as a viewer. I'm sure they've thought about the product they're producing and have tried to make entertaining television that wasn't simply repeating itself.

That said, they do run the risk of just copy catting that other piece of television. Though, it seems like there are enough differences between the crystal life in CL and what we're going to see in this episode. It doesn't seem like it will be just the same rehashed stuff. And if it develops the characters the way it has the potential to than that'll make it even better.

Actually, I'm rather interested in this episode. It sounds good and to be honest I'm kinda glad they're going back to the crystal life forms. Gives the Stargate universe a bit of continuity, IMO.

That's true too. I would rather have them acknowledge that they got the idea from another story than say it was an original idea. Plus they do in some instances make mention of the other eps on the show. I think it was intruder that McKay mentioned something happened at the SGC.

Anyway back on topic. I wonder how they are going to defeat this entity? Any ideas?

[parisindy]

like is said if thats what you guys like good on you.. i had just hoped for something more from atlantis.

It seemed like it was going to be special, but season 4 certain is lacking the shineyness of the other three seasons. From everything i've heard, this episode just stood out as a prime example of what the show has lost as it becomes ever more reliant on SG-1 to survive.

But hey you guys like it so cool.

i just bugger off now, continue on

[Lorr]

Cooper does acknowledge the SG1 episode. From the home page article.

Spoiler:

I've always been fascinated by nightmares and dreams," Cooper said. "So that's what this is about. It's about an alien entity that lives in crystal form. I've kind of paid a little homage to 'Cold Lazarus' and said, 'Well, OK -- there's something that we've established in the Stargate universe that we've never really dealt with before. And that is, again, lifeforms can exist in that state.'"

In the first season episode of Stargate SG-1, Jack O'Neill and SG-1 encountered a race of crystal-based beings who had been decimated by the Jaffa. When O'Neill touched one of the crystals he was knocked unconscious and duplicated by one of the beings -- who proceeded to return to Earth with SG-1 in an attempt to heal the colonel's 'pain.'"

"O'Neill went out, touched a crystal and all this stuff happened," Cooper said of the episode. "We've never done that again. And I thought, 'Well, wouldn't it be interesting if we found another crystalline life-form like that.' But in that case we were kind of lucky that it had reasonably good intentions. There was a sinister aspect to it in that we didn't know what was going on, but at the end of the day it was kind of just curious.

"So I took the flip side of that and said, 'What if it's a psychopath? What if it's truly evil?' And it enduces some pretty freaky nightmares."

[cshawzye]

Anyway back on topic. I wonder how they are going to defeat this entity? Any ideas?

I was wondering that while I was reading the article on the mainpage earlier. But I can't come up with much. If all of this happens in their nightmares what happens in between times they're dreaming ... They'd have to realize it was the crystal. I'm assuming that McKay would end up figuring out the crystal was alive ... I don't know *shrugs*

I'm actually just excited to see the nightmares that each of the characters end up having.

Cooper does acknowledge the SG1 episode. From the home page article.

Spoiler:

I've always been fascinated by nightmares and dreams," Cooper said. "So that's what this is about. It's about an alien entity that lives in crystal form. I've kind of paid a little homage to 'Cold Lazarus' and said, 'Well, OK -- there's something that we've established in the Stargate universe that we've never really dealt with before. And that is, again, lifeforms can exist in that state.'"

In the first season episode of Stargate SG-1, Jack O'Neill and SG-1 encountered a race of crystal-based beings who had been decimated by the Jaffa. When O'Neill touched one of the crystals he was knocked unconscious and duplicated by one of the beings -- who proceeded to return to Earth with SG-1 in an attempt to heal the colonel's 'pain.'"

"O'Neill went out, touched a crystal and all this stuff happened," Cooper said of the episode. "We've never done that again. And I thought, 'Well, wouldn't it be interesting if we found another crystalline life-form like that.' But in that case we were kind of lucky that it had reasonably good intentions. There was a sinister aspect to it in that we didn't know what was going on, but at the end of the day it was kind of just curious.

"So I took the flip side of that and said, 'What if it's a psychopath? What if it's truly evil?' And it enduces some pretty freaky nightmares."

Yeah, I know. And I'm glad he did. I appreciate that he did that.

[PG15]

like is said if thats what you guys like good on you.. i had just hoped for something more from atlantis.

It seemed like it was going to be special, but season 4 certain is lacking the shineyness of the other three seasons. From everything i've heard, this episode just stood out as a prime example of what the show has lost as it becomes ever more reliant on SG-1 to survive.

But hey you guys like it so cool.

i just bugger off now, continue on

I really don't know what you're getting at; it's not like Atlantis has ever been truly original. I mean, once in a while you get little gems of an old idea dressed in new garbs, but they're the same old scifi staples.

[Linzi]

Agreed. It's how things are presented, and executed and how the characters react to situations that make the show entertaining for me. Nothing is truly original anymore. Goodness, most of our early literature harks back to Greek tragedy! Nothing is original after thousands of years of fiction!!!!

[ShepsGem]

Well so far I'm quite excited about this episode along with Travellers! Bring on the Shep whumpage!!

[Sheppard's Delight]

Well so far I'm quite excited about this episode along with Travellers! Bring on the Shep whumpage!!

You have good taste!!

[ToasterOnFire]

like is said if thats what you guys like good on you.. i had just hoped for something more from atlantis.

Atlantis is entertaining popcorn fodder that tends to borrow, recycle, and pay homage to other stories instead of being unique and inventive SF. The Stargate franchise has always leaned in the former direction and I don't see anything drastic happening to change that now. It's a shame, but there it is.

[Rootortoise]

Well so far I'm quite excited about this episode along with Travellers! Bring on the Shep whumpage!!

Same here!! Roll on season 4, im so excited!!!!!!!!!

oh and in regards to whats been said, i really couldnt care less if sga was recycling old plots...i watch this show to be entertained, and if its executed properly then im sure it will be just as great as any predecessor.
anyway this ep sure as hell looks different already to cold laz..(omg but they both have crystal like creatures!!)...if anyone wants to be negative about it before its aired, its your prerogative...im looking forward to this ep and the whole of season 4!!

[Mitchell82]

Same here!! Roll on season 4, im so excited!!!!!!!!!

oh and in regards to whats been said, i really couldnt care less if sga was recycling old plots...i watch this show to be entertained, and if its executed properly then im sure it will be just as great as any predecessor.
anyway this ep sure as hell looks different already to cold laz..(omg but they both have crystal like creatures!!)...if anyone wants to be negative about it before its aired, its your prerogative...im looking forward to this ep and the whole of season 4!!

Me too Come on season 4 and 5 and 6.......