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    Ancient tech and stargates

    there are so many threads on these subject I decided to start my own thread to coalesce all my views instead of responding to each thread separately.

    First, why does this planet seem to have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to stargates . there's the antartica gate - which was placed on earth by the ancients- then there's Ra's gate - then Apophis gate. I read that people think that the gate of the Ancients and the Apophis gate were destroyed but if you ask me they're all in orbit around earth and Sol

    Also we know that wormholes can't work in hyperspace (think the episodes where Apophis lost 2 ships attacking earth) so the one we flew away on piggy back on a death glider would've be deactivated after entering hyperspace right? so ship glider probably exploded and the gates floating in orbit out there

    also why must the ancients be 100 milllions old? we know the ancients left earth on atlantis several million years ago (max 7). we know we saw the ayanna watching them depart and later she was frozen in a snowdrift. we know that the hologram of the sol system on proklarush showed earth continent configuration 30 million years ago according to jackson.

    and that's it. 30 mil is the oldest date spoken. this fits in with the ayanna episode where sam speculated the antartica DHD COULD be as old as 50 million.

    no mention of ancients evolving on earth and no fossil record proof. no mention of any seeding of their species that implies would later become the tauri. actually jackson mentions parallel evolution several times thruout the series concerning cultures and architecture. and anyone in school who studied evolution and archaelogy is familiar with convergent and parallel evolution. think marine life and egyptian and mayan/teotihucan pyramids. and human and ancient bilogical similarity. it's quite clear that goa'ulds spread humans thruout the milky way.

    no big deal.

    so my theory is that ancients evolved on some unknown world or galaxy, developed hyperdrive and colonized many worlds and galaxies, including terra atlantis the milky way, ida (othalla?) and pegasus.

    also has anyone noticed that Atlantis survived from 7 million years ago to the present it must be REALLY well built! maybe it's meant to be a generational ship? also it was mentioned in an ep with daniel/sara/osiris that the lost city was the "origin of doorways" so presumably the stargates were invented (and manufactured?) at atlantis and the tech was shared with other ancients everywhere

    maybe that was atlantis primary function? to build stargates? it is a city after all they must have repair and manufacturing places.

    also we know that stargates are excluded as time travel devices from the ground hog day episdo where they have a separate time machine and I doubt the extension theory (dial more than one gate on a planet specifically) because 'the busy signal' we saw in the antartica ep would not be needed then.....no flashing lights and ground shaking like we saw......it would not be necessary the 7th chevron would simply not engage as we saw during several episodes.....i have a great idea for an episode for the 9th chevron which i'm writing as a script ......maybe i'll post it here

    next - there seems to be confusion about the DHD's and stargates.....
    I believe the point of origin glyph is present on ALL DHD's because we saw sam point it out to jack on the episode where they were sent to antartica. the only reason i can think that the SGC stargate was dominant was because the sam mentioned that after a few uses the antartica DHD depleted its' unknown power source(which i like to think is naquadria! ) and mcka y mentioned on a recent SGA episode that both sending and receiving stargates require some power for a wormhole to connect-hopefully not peculiar to pegasus gates. The big red button is the ENTER button as another poster mentioned......this allows the DHD to know when to dial a 7 or 8 or 9 symbol address. push six, seven or eight and point of origin and then hit big red button to open gate.

    i wonder about the pegasus gates tho - it seems each ring 'box' has enough little lights in it accomadate as many are needed to illuminate any configuration constellation or maximum number for that galaxy. so how can u manually dial? perhaps from what i've seen on the show the 'boxes' on the ring remember the last know constellation they represented - so when you provide enough power they all display the constellation last present on them - so you then rotate the ring to the chevron you want.

    but manual dialing seems by physically moving the ring seems to auto open wormholes after seven symbols are entered unless you have a big red button to hit enter or a cobbled together dialing device like Earth that signals the gate with an ENTER code........

    regarding the torment of tantulus episode of the four races........i think jackson was only speculating that the four races were an alliance against the goa'uld or the wraith as some posters suggest. it was never stated that there allied and the meeting place was for this purpose. the 'meaning of life stuff' device indicates that this was a place where these species met to exchange knowledge not plot strategy...........as for the time frame who knows because the ancients had gate networks in many galaxies they might've chosen those 3 species because they felt they had the most potential just as the asgard felt about humans of earth..........


    concerning ancient hologram lady saying the atlanteans returned to earth after fleeing pegasus there's no time frame determined yet tho I heard there's an new ep saying 10000 years. not sure what to say yet...........






    #2


    forgot stargates and alternate universes - i bet anything the naquadah mirror form season 1-3 was Ancient built - remember they found it in a 'museum' collection of a planet of humans whose culture was from earth so presumably they found it on some Ancient colonized world............. so that excludes another possiblity for chevron 9

    Comment


      #3
      wouldn't it make sense for atlantis to have a facility for making and launching the glowing calamari of doom? it is a ship after all. it might need defences while in space.

      also where do you think these glowing jellyfish of doom come from? are they synthetic? do they live inside a planet? are they transdimensional like that episode with Jonas seeing them thru the help of the Ancient pseudo bug zapper?
      they seem to survive contact after more than one strike - if you watch the lost city epi carefully they attack several ships while flying to space and then return to the main swarm

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by glowingjellyfish


        forgot stargates and alternate universes - i bet anything the naquadah mirror form season 1-3 was Ancient built - remember they found it in a 'museum' collection of a planet of humans whose culture was from earth so presumably they found it on some Ancient colonized world............. so that excludes another possiblity for chevron 9
        I think a great deal of your theory is pure speculation. Also, why is it that everyone seems to think the Ancients evolved on another planet? They evolved here. The facts point to them evolving here, not elsewhere.

        Comment


          #5
          which part is speculation? and i saw every episode except the first half of the epi when anubis destroys the ra pyramid. there is absolutely no mention, heck even implication, that the ancients evolved on earth, that's earth centrism

          as i mentioned jackson puts the earliest date based on continental drift and the sol system hologram at 30 million years. the ayiana epi only says that probably we evolved to look like the ancients - i.e. convergent evolution.

          aren't u that dismissive poster?

          Comment


            #6
            I'm still wondering where people get the idea that the Ancients built the Quantum Mirror. Unless there's an episode that I missed somewhere, I mean. I pulled a TPTB and missed Season 6.
            Forum insight in 1 click!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TheHomegaMan
              I'm still wondering where people get the idea that the Ancients built the Quantum Mirror. Unless there's an episode that I missed somewhere, I mean. I pulled a TPTB and missed Season 6.

              okay, i admit that part is speculation. but the style of the design seems very Ancient. nox, furling, asgard, tollan and the other advanced tho extinct races mentioned seem to use a distinctive different style for their tek

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by glowingjelyfish
                which part is speculation? and i saw every episode except the first half of the epi when anubis destroys the ra pyramid. there is absolutely no mention, heck even implication, that the ancients evolved on earth, that's earth centrism

                as i mentioned jackson puts the earliest date based on continental drift and the sol system hologram at 30 million years. the ayiana epi only says that probably we evolved to look like the ancients - i.e. convergent evolution.

                aren't u that dismissive poster?
                Some points to consider:
                SPOILERS




                In "Solitudes", Carter and O'Neill get stuck in Antarctica because of some gate gltch. I forgot what happened exactly, but later, during study of that gate, Carter told SGC that Earth's Antarctica gate was about 50-55 million years old, which made it the oldest gate they had encountered up that point. It's possible there are older gates out there, but Carter speculated that Earth's gate might have been the first gate built; however, she did not know for sure.

                In "Frozen", where they found Ayiana, I think something was once again mentioned about the Gate being really old, plus Dr. Frazier clearly said that Ayiana was human, just like us, except for a few biochemical differences. There was comment in another episode, by Dr. Frasier and Dr. Jackson, about the Ancient humans and modern humans having similar body structures, biochemicals, hormones, and anatomical structural similarities in common, denoting a common evolution on Earth; or, the Ancients, humans, and all Earth animals evolved on an alien planet and were transported here and allowed to evolve further, which is unlikely.

                Also, Atlantis was built and housed on Earth, so it seems, and Earth played a major role in the Ancients' Empire. It's logical to conclude that they did evolve here and that this was their home. They also came back here from Pegasus to escape the Wraith onslaught. If this was not their homeworld, why come back here of all places? Especially if it had gone "primitive"? If this weren't their homeworld, they wouldn't come back to a planet that had become primitive with no more advancements, unless this was truly their place of origin.

                If they evolved here, how do we account for the lack of ruins and ancient findings? Here's some thoughts:

                1) It was millions of years ago when they left and only about 11,000 when they returned. We know the Antarctic base was left in tact, but we haven't found much else of the Ancients on Earth. Over the millions of years since they originally left and moved on, Earth has undergone major climatic and geological changes, which might have eroded and destroyed cities, buried cities and ruins under lava/magma/ash or pushed the ruins/cities/buildings underwater after flooding and land movement. Some of the cities and ruins might have been lost in desert and jungle.

                Also, since that time, the Goa'uld and Asgard came to Earth. It's possible that since Earth was the homeworld of the Ancients, the Asgard and Goa'uld, and possibly even Nem's peeps, the Oannes, who were also here at the time of the Goa'uld, picked the leftover Ancient tech and modified it for themselves. We know the Goa'uld are scavengers, and once they came to Earth, would have found lots of Ancient tech and structures. they would have either made them into their own temples to be worshipped by the primitive humans, destroyed them so humans won't be confused by advanced objects that were created by someone other than their gods, or the Asgard took some of the Ancient tech too; don't forget they were on Earth off and on for a long time too. Thor never said why they were on Earth exactly, other than some "genetic investigation" as described in "Fragile Balance", but we know they have been messin' around on Earth for thousands of years (see "Red Sky" and "Thor's Hammer"). If they knew this was the homeworld of the Ancients, with whom they once were allied, then once the Ancients disappeared, they may have come here looking for them, and once they discovered they were gone and had reverted to primitive humans, picked off the good tech for themselves...I mean, why not? Nem's people seemed pretty advcanced and some of that tech in "Fire and Water" seemed to be ancient or goa'uld-like, so maybe when the Oammes came to Earth to fight the Goa'uld, they took some tech too.

                Time and garbage picking could explain for the lack of ruins on Earth.

                2) Also, we have discovered a lot of alien objects on Earth so far. Most of it has been Goa'uld, but a few things have proven to be Asgard, Furling (see "Paradise Lost"), and of course, Ancient. Ancient objects have been found in Egypt, Central America, and even Europe I think. A lot of the alien artifacts found might be categorized as Goa'uld without knwoing for sure it was actually Ancient or Asgard or whatever. Hard to say for sure.

                3) Like Major Fischer said: you have to suspend your disbelief and just enjoy the show wihtout thinking of technicalities like archaeological evidence of the Ancients on Earth.

                4) In the movie, Abydos was in a different galaxy, but in the series, in "COTG", Carter said Abydos was the closest planet to Earth. She never mentioned how old the gate was, but I think I remember another Abydos episode when either Carter or Daniel said something about the Abydos gate being quite old too -- older than other gates in the galaxy. I don't remember specifics, but if it is closest to Earth, then it might have been the second gate seeded off Earth.

                I think the hardest part for most of us to swallow is the millions of years thing; if it was hundreds of thousands, we would accept it better, but 50+ million years? I guess the writers wanted to justify the name "Ancients".

                There are plenty of inferences and direct evidence to support the fact that they evolved on Earth. Of course, we don't know anything for sure, and I'm also speculating, but I think my points make more sense to some degree. Also, I'm not an Earth-centrist. I'm a biology major and know that if Ancients evolved on another planet, we could still be related to them by some master genetic plan, but that would not explain how we are biologically linked to life on Earth. We have related morophological, biochemical, embryological, and genetic structures/patterns to other terrestrial animals. If we evolved on Planet X, we would have very little in common with other Earth life, which isn't true.


                signed, the dismissive poster

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LordAnubis




                  In "Solitudes", Carter and O'Neill get stuck in Antarctica because of some gate gltch. I forgot what happened exactly, but later, during study of that gate, Carter told SGC that Earth's Antarctica gate was about 50-55 million years old, which made it the oldest gate they had encountered up that point. It's possible there are older gates out there, but Carter speculated that Earth's gate might have been the first gate built; however, she did not know for sure.
                  see my first post- i don't dispute that' the antartica gate is the first - remember atlantis is probably the orgin of doorways, the first built


                  Originally posted by LordAnubis
                  Also, Atlantis was built and housed on Earth, so it seems, and Earth played a major role in the Ancients' Empire. It's logical to conclude that they did evolve here and that this was their home. They also came back here from Pegasus to escape the Wraith onslaught. If this was not their homeworld, why come back here of all places? Especially if it had gone "primitive"? If this weren't their homeworld, they wouldn't come back to a planet that had become primitive with no more advancements, unless this was truly their place of origin.
                  i agree it was housed here obviously but there's no proof it was built here especially because there's no naquadah in the Sol system- a flying city could certainly fly to earth. the colonists of this world would naturally feel attached to it and so would there descendants of the pegasus galaxy. your argument is not convincing proof they evolved here.

                  If they evolved here, how do we account for the lack of ruins and ancient findings? Here's some thoughts:
                  Originally posted by LordAnubis

                  Also, since that time, the Goa'uld and Asgard came to Earth. It's possible that since Earth was the homeworld of the Ancients, the Asgard and Goa'uld, and possibly even Nem's peeps, the Oannes, who were also here at the time of the Goa'uld, picked the leftover Ancient tech and modified it for themselves. We know the Goa'uld are scavengers, and once they came to Earth, would have found lots of Ancient tech and structures. they would have either made them into their own temples to be worshipped by the primitive humans, destroyed them so humans won't be confused by advanced objects that were created by someone other than their gods, or the Asgard took some of the Ancient tech too; don't forget they were on Earth off and on for a long time too. Thor never said why they were on Earth exactly, other than some "genetic investigation" as described in "Fragile Balance", but we know they have been messin' around on Earth for thousands of years (see "Red Sky" and "Thor's Hammer"). If they knew this was the homeworld of the Ancients, with whom they once were allied, then once the Ancients disappeared, they may have come here looking for them, and once they discovered they were gone and had reverted to primitive humans, picked off the good tech for themselves...I mean, why not? Nem's people seemed pretty advcanced and some of that tech in "Fire and Water" seemed to be ancient or goa'uld-like, so maybe when the Oammes came to Earth to fight the Goa'uld, they took some tech too.
                  no evidence/show background/wild speculation

                  Originally posted by LordAnubis
                  Time and garbage picking could explain for the lack of ruins on Earth.

                  2) Also, we have discovered a lot of alien objects on Earth so far. Most of it has been Goa'uld, but a few things have proven to be Asgard, Furling (see "Paradise Lost"), and of course, Ancient. Ancient objects have been found in Egypt, Central America, and even Europe I think. A lot of the alien artifacts found might be categorized as Goa'uld without knwoing for sure it was actually Ancient or Asgard or whatever. Hard to say for sure.
                  the goauld could easily bring any Ancient tek with them. example being stargate






                  Originally posted by LordAnubis
                  There are plenty of inferences and direct evidence to support the fact that they evolved on Earth. Of course, we don't know anything for sure, and I'm also speculating, but I think my points make more sense to some degree. Also, I'm not an Earth-centrist. I'm a biology major and know that if Ancients evolved on another planet, we could still be related to them by some master genetic plan, but that would not explain how we are biologically linked to life on Earth. We have related morophological, biochemical, embryological, and genetic structures/patterns to other terrestrial animals. If we evolved on Planet X, we would have very little in common with other Earth life, which isn't true.
                  name your inferences. i know biology also and you should know from your evolution course that nature is a great conserver and will reuse adaptive designs to solve similar problems facing diverse species. hence the biological similiarities. as the Ancients are human like they might have evolved on a similar world

                  finally - i can suspend my belief too i just think we should suspend the writers from their underwear when they can't keep their storylines consistent and logical

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by glowingjelyfish
                    see my first post- i don't dispute that' the antartica gate is the first - remember atlantis is probably the orgin of doorways, the first built




                    i agree it was housed here obviously but there's no proof it was built here especially because there's no naquadah in the Sol system- a flying city could certainly fly to earth. the colonists of this world would naturally feel attached to it and so would there descendants of the pegasus galaxy. your argument is not convincing proof they evolved here.

                    If they evolved here, how do we account for the lack of ruins and ancient findings? Here's some thoughts:


                    no evidence/show background/wild speculation



                    the goauld could easily bring any Ancient tek with them. example being stargate








                    name your inferences. i know biology also and you should know from your evolution course that nature is a great conserver and will reuse adaptive designs to solve similar problems facing diverse species. hence the biological similiarities. as the Ancients are human like they might have evolved on a similar world

                    finally - i can suspend my belief too i just think we should suspend the writers from their underwear when they can't keep their storylines consistent and logical
                    They found naqadah when they started exploring the galaxy via ships. Then they brought it back here and experimened. I dunno...I'm just a stupid college student, not a writer. I wish I had the answers, but anyway. Also, you're wrong about the biological part, but that's okay. You can't evolve on one planet yet have compatible biological patterns with the life on another planet. If you took any biology courses, especially comparative evolution, you would know that dude.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by LordAnubis
                      They found naqadah when they started exploring the galaxy via ships. Then they brought it back here and experimened. I dunno...I'm just a stupid college student, not a writer. I wish I had the answers, but anyway. Also, you're wrong about the biological part, but that's okay. You can't evolve on one planet yet have compatible biological patterns with the life on another planet. If you took any biology courses, especially comparative evolution, you would know that dude.

                      it's possible they brought naquadah back, but there're still no references to their evolution on earth. as there are no actual samples of alien life you can't know - unless you know something we don't and i do know that biology does demonstrate that to solve similar problems evolution will craft similar molecules, similar tissue/organ structures, similar chemistries and similar anatomies. i'm not sure who taught *you* comparative anatomy but apparently they skipped a few chapters -dude

                      Comment


                        #12
                        scuse me I meant comparative evolution but the other is relevant too. also what do u mean by biological patterns?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by glowingjelyfish
                          it's possible they brought naquadah back, but there're still no references to their evolution on earth. as there are no actual samples of alien life you can't know - unless you know something we don't and i do know that biology does demonstrate that to solve similar problems evolution will craft similar molecules, similar tissue/organ structures, similar chemistries and similar anatomies. i'm not sure who taught *you* comparative anatomy but apparently they skipped a few chapters -dude
                          Well, first off, you make the statement "there are no references to..." in several places. Hmm, ya know, the thing with Stargate, and many other sci-fi series, is that there are often no references to things we would like to know to fill in the blanks. If you read my detailed post about why I think they did evolve here on Earth, you can see the inferences that they are making: the Ancients and Earth are inextricably linked, possibly meaning they evolved here.

                          Do we know that for a fact? Nope, we don't because it wasn't said, however, what has been said leads more to the conclusion that they did evolve here rather than on some other planet. If you saw "Frozen" and "Solitudes" and "Lost City 1-2" and "Rising" (SGA), and understood what you saw, you might be making the right inferences instead of waiting for written/spoken canon, which you probably won't get until the very end of the show.

                          It's just like the Asgard question: Are they originally from Ida or Milky Way? It's never said, but they've given us clues supporting both Ida and Milky Way. What do we believe? We can just make educated guesses like we are about where the Ancients evolved.

                          Parallel evolution is different from convergent or divergent evolution.

                          Convergent: From several reptilian species, Repto-birds evolved and finally converged into the different forms of modern aves (birds).

                          Divergent: Cyonidictis (an Oligiocene carnivore) evolved into both CATS and DOGS.

                          You're right about nature/evolution making accomodations and adjustments in the evolutionary process. This often happens with natural selection, mutation, and parallel evolution in the form of homologues and analogues.

                          With homologous evolution, we see a particular organ or appendage have the same or different functions in different animals. For example, bats evolved from small rodent-like pseudo-primate-like animals that eventually took to the air; their wings are modified arms (forelimbs) with taut skin comprising the wing material. Birds evolved from theraspid reptiles; their scales became lightweight feathers and their forearms also evolved into wings, however, with feathers instead of tight stretched skin. Both are homologous: same embryological origin and same function with mild differences.

                          However, a fly or dragonfly's wings are analogous to a bird's or bat's wings. The fly has six limbs; it's wings evolved as separate appendages/organs unrelated to it's limbs. They are not modified arms, but separate organs altogether. Evolution on Earth can create two creatures that do the same thing (fly), but with different biological origins.

                          Nevertheless, there are biological markers and patterns that clearly link all terrestrial vertebrate life together (forget the insects and invertebrates, cuz they are vastly different from us and other animals). If you focus on the vertebrates, there are clear evolutionary consistencies: jaw structures, joint articulations, spacing of sense organs, type/function of ball-and-socket hip and shoulder joints, and other morphological and anatomical points in common.

                          Simply put, if humans evolved on another world, we would have very little in common with the native vertebrate animals found on Earth. Especially animals like chimps, orangs, and gorillas. We know that this is not true, so it shows we evolved on Earth, as did the Ancients, as noted in "Frozen", since Ayiana was just like us with the exception of a few superficial differences and millions of years of knowledge and tech

                          So, I've shown why I have to be right and you're wrong. Next?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by LordAnubis
                            Well, first off, you make the statement "there are no references to..." in several places. Hmm, ya know, the thing with Stargate, and many other sci-fi series, is that there are often no references to things we would like to know to fill in the blanks. If you read my detailed post about why I think they did evolve here on Earth, you can see the inferences that they are making: the Ancients and Earth are inextricably linked, possibly meaning they evolved here.
                            those 'inferences' are tenuous at best. the closest would be the tests that frasier and the other doc said they did on ayiana's blood. but depending on what they tested for, the Ancients could simply have similar cell structure and chemistry


                            Originally posted by LordAnubis
                            It's just like the Asgard question: Are they originally from Ida or Milky Way? It's never said, but they've given us clues supporting both Ida and Milky Way. What do we believe? We can just make educated guesses like we are about where the Ancients evolved.
                            several times ida/othalla is mentioned as the homeworld or colony of the asgard. only the protected planets and the research facility of the ancient asgard indicate any presence in the MW

                            Originally posted by LordAnubis
                            Parallel evolution is different from convergent or divergent evolution.

                            Convergent: From several reptilian species, Repto-birds evolved and finally converged into the different forms of modern aves (birds).

                            Divergent: Cyonidictis (an Oligiocene carnivore) evolved into both CATS and DOGS.

                            You're right about nature/evolution making accomodations and adjustments in the evolutionary process. This often happens with natural selection, mutation, and parallel evolution in the form of homologues and analogues.

                            With homologous evolution, we see a particular organ or appendage have the same or different functions in different animals. For example, bats evolved from small rodent-like pseudo-primate-like animals that eventually took to the air; their wings are modified arms (forelimbs) with taut skin comprising the wing material. Birds evolved from theraspid reptiles; their scales became lightweight feathers and their forearms also evolved into wings, however, with feathers instead of tight stretched skin. Both are homologous: same embryological origin and same function with mild differences.

                            However, a fly or dragonfly's wings are analogous to a bird's or bat's wings. The fly has six limbs; it's wings evolved as separate appendages/organs unrelated to it's limbs. They are not modified arms, but separate organs altogether. Evolution on Earth can create two creatures that do the same thing (fly), but with different biological origins.
                            just consider the evolution of humanity. there are several different subspecies that looked similar to modern humans and if their subspecies survived might've approached our appearance more closely - there's a good artistic rendition of these from the discovery channel hosted by that actor from red october

                            Originally posted by LordAnubis
                            Nevertheless, there are biological markers and patterns that clearly link all terrestrial vertebrate life together (forget the insects and invertebrates, cuz they are vastly different from us and other animals). If you focus on the vertebrates, there are clear evolutionary consistencies: jaw structures, joint articulations, spacing of sense organs, type/function of ball-and-socket hip and shoulder joints, and other morphological and anatomical points in common.

                            Simply put, if humans evolved on another world, we would have very little in common with the native vertebrate animals found on Earth. Especially animals like chimps, orangs, and gorillas. We know that this is not true, so it shows we evolved on Earth, as did the Ancients, as noted in "Frozen", since Ayiana was just like us with the exception of a few superficial differences and millions of years of knowledge and tech
                            nothing was mentioned in the show that ayiana had any such markers similar to other terran species. only some vague mentions of similar cell structures

                            Originally posted by LordAnubis
                            So, I've shown why I have to be right and you're wrong. Next?
                            still flawed and wishful thinking. C- try again

                            Comment


                              #15
                              another good example would be to consider dinosaur marine life and mammalian marine life for evolution guiding anatomy

                              Comment

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