Cloaking Earth. #Spoilers for line in the sand and Return part II#

[immhotep]

Ok so in LITS we saw an entire village get cloaked from the Ori, for a day or So, in the morning something got knocked outside the field and it collapsed, the power sources also conked out at the same time.
Now the village was quite large, it wasnt massive but probley the size of the SGC. So if they can cloak an SGc sized area with only three Naquadah generators. What are the Chanced that we could cloak a planet?

Obviously a planet is a massive object and the size difference between the SGC and Earth is absurd but, given that we have access to at least three ZPM's as well as hundreds of Naquadah generators. Could we, when carter has fiddled about with the device enough, cloak a planet? We know that three ZPM's can shield a large part of a planet, we know this from SGA S3. So why cant we extend the Merlin Phase field over Earth. If we retroengineered this technology, which is unlikely, then we could possition them around the globe and phase the phasing, each powered by a ZPM. This would be extreamely helpfull if the Ori invaded, it couldnt be permanent because you would probley be out of phase with everyone in the galaxy like Michel was, unless you use Sodan cloaks to phase out once your offworld.
If the Ori invade then we cant beat them, but we can hide from them, and there isnt any way they can defeat that technology, and they cant gate in because our gate would be out of phase too. If used successfully and if its possible then this device could hold the key to beating the Ori, or at least give us the time to build up our forces.

Do you think 3 ZPM's would be enough? Could we get the Asgard to help out in exchange for the technology?

[ManiacMike]

so now we have a demension shifting device...

whats stopping them from using it on the daedalus or oddessy? or cloaks on them for that matter



I think it would take at least 2 to 3 zpms to "cloak" an entire planet.

[kirmit]

so now we have a demension shifting device...

whats stopping them from using it on the daedalus or oddessy? or cloaks on them for that matter



I think it would take at least 2 to 3 zpms to "cloak" an entire planet.

Spoiler:

they did mention using it to 'shift' earth ships in the episode

So very likely.

[l33telboi]

Camron did also mention shifting planets, so yes, i'd say it's a very real possbility that they can.

[immhotep]

Well the problem isnt power anymore, its avalability of the device. We have a ZPM on the Oddesey so we can easily shift the ship, how that would affect things like hyperspace travel and even sublight thrusters is debateable; but for a stationary object like a planet with enough power we should be able to cloak it. What we need is more than one device, at the moment we only have one, but because it seems like Sodan cloaks utilise the same shift technology, its possible that we could use ZPM'd Sodan cloaks and merlins device to cloak a planet.

[l33telboi]

how that would affect things like hyperspace travel and even sublight thrusters is debateable

Hyperspace would be a questionmark, but sublight manouvering should be fine. Remember Camron mentioning that he would stay phased even if he exited the field radius after they had activated the device. Most likely the same would be true of a ship. Just phase it and then you can move around freely.

If you remember the episode where they first showed Merlin's device, you'll also recall that Camron managed to actually use the Stargate to travel to another world and still be phased. This gives some merit to the thought that Hyperspace might also be possible. But in any case, i'd say this makes it quite sure that the range a thing can travel, once phased, is quite high.

[freyr's mother]

You could shift atlantis to another dimension and you wouldnt even have to worry about switching from cloak to shield.

[kirmit]

If they could keep the 'shift' up indefinately on a planet they could build a whole fleet of ships and launch a massive strike against the Ori/Wraith/Asurans.

[Olla]

If they could keep the 'shift' up indefinately on a planet they could build a whole fleet of ships and launch a massive strike against the Ori/Wraith/Asurans.

Then you’ll need to shift back if you want to attack. Otherwise it’s pretty useless to attacks ships.

[kefke20]

morgan shifde the qwest planit so it is poseble

[kirmit]

Then you’ll need to shift back if you want to attack. Otherwise it’s pretty useless to attacks ships.

Yes i did actually mean that but my point is they could build a massive fleet, undetected and completely safe. In the normal dimension building a massive fleet will get peoples attention and they're likely to try and sabotage/attack.

[immhotep]

You could shift atlantis to another dimension and you wouldnt even have to worry about switching from cloak to shield.

Using it in atlantis would be extreamely usefull. I think using Phase cloakers rather than the current advanced steath cloaks makes much more sense. either merlins device or a Retro engineered Sodan phase cloak should be tested to see if it can phase atlantis just like the shield/cloak system does now. they already have power to do it, and its in need of it the most. Hey maybe Carter will take the technology over to atlantis next year..

Also on the weapons note, you could just modify the field to unphase the weapon system, and then use a conventional cloak to fire. also the Sodan seemed to be able to fire from within thier cloaking fields so maybe we could. Tactically agaisnt the wraith this technology could be invaluble, the deadalus could literally fly in to the dart bays, drop of a mark IX fitted with a Sodan cloak, then detinate the bomb, the bomb would destryo the cloak which would unpahse the explosion as a result and there goes your hive ship..

[Semmer]

Think of this: If you phase Earth, the moon will shoot away. You see, the gravitation surely won't affect over dimensions. I bet that'll be a problem.


When thinking futher, also the gravitation that affects Earth from the sun, will also seize. Aaaand we'll face even bigger problems.

[immhotep]

Well we phased the village and it didnt float of in to space? I dont think is an issue with these kinds of devices.

[kirmit]

Well we phased the village and it didnt float of in to space? I dont think is an issue with these kinds of devices.

I don't think that's quite what he meant, if the earth is in another dimension and the moon is left in th normal dimension then there will be no gravitational force keeping it in position and it would float off into space.

[l33telboi]

When thinking futher, also the gravitation that affects Earth from the sun, will also seize. Aaaand we'll face even bigger problems.

The cloak doesn't follow the laws of physics that closely though. Think of Camron when he was phased in the Sodan Zombie episode, he didn't fall through the ground, and his body still followed the laws of gravity.

Trying to make real sense of this cloak in terms of real science might be beyond possible i'm afraid. But if they actually do phase Planets at some point, it will be very interesting to see how they will deal with problems like moons and the like. Most likely they won't bother with such 'trivial' details.

Hmm. Thinking further on this, do any of you consider it possible that this whole phasing thing doesn't actually move the person completly to another dimension? I mean we know that they can at least see the normal dimension, that alone proves that they still have to have some form of connection. Maybe stuff like gravity, air (they have to be able to breathe too), and other such things still remain accessible to the people that are phased too? If this would be true, then you could indeed phase an entire planet. However, detecting a cloaked planet that stills emits a noticeable gravity field should also be quite easy, so... Who knows.

[l33telboi]

I don't think that's quite what he meant, if the earth is in another dimension and the moon is left in th normal dimension then there will be no gravitational force keeping it in position and it would float off into space.

He does still have a point though. I mean the village would no longer be bound by the Earth's gravity field and the planet's rotation if indeed the phasing separates it completly from the world around them. So it would quite quickly launch off into space, if it followed the course it had when it got separated that is. If it doesn't follow said course, but instead just stands still, then the village would probably pop back into reality on the wrong continent, or inside a mountain or something. In either case, this doesn't really work with anything we've seen in the episodes so far.

[wise one]

maybe it will take alot of zpms to hide a planet since like 3 is used to fully power up atlantis so a plant would have to take alot of power to continually cloak a entire planet.

maybe use a sun or its planets core like the did to power the shield in 'inferno'

[immhotep]

I think 5 would be needed, but we have three and we could augment those with Naquadah reactors or ask the asgard for some kind of generator that would help us out.

[Dutch_Razor]

Spoiler:

They cloaked the planet with the Sangraal, as stated by Baal he couldn't find it, so it is possible, it's the question of how much it will take though.