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Thread: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

  1. #21
    Brigadier General Buba uognarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    wow guys i'm impressed with the level of detail here, well done you get green

    i was wondering when this would be posted, i remember Ouroboros mentioned it a while ago...

    i think you've covered everything though
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    My EYES Hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Haven't even read anything just scrolled down the damn page!
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  3. #23
    Lieutenant Colonel Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by An-Alteran View Post
    Three things:
    First you assume that the Wraith use weaker blasts against the Ancient shields because they drain them better.

    I have another idea about why those ships fired different energy blasts at Atlantis:
    The weapons have variable charge levels, and a full charged blast is to owerful, and will overload the weapon. So in continuous fire, they are less usefull and will take longer to drain a ZPM then say the weaker fast firing ones.
    So it is not a matter of using a more effective weapon, but a weapon more effectively over time.
    Mr. Oragahn did the weapons part of this and all the calculations related to that so I'll let him answer in more detail when he gets here.

    Basically though there are two types of Wraith bolts we observed. One type seems to be able to cause catastrophic damage to shields but has significantly less effect on matter. This type is what Mr. O calls "falling stars".

    The second type observed causes vastly more damage to matter but significantly less to shields. He calls this type "fireballs".

    Falling stars do petaton level damage to the ancient city shields where as fireballs do gigaton level damage to matter. The falling stars then are actually singificnatly more powerful if they are being used against shields but their effect on matter remains negligable. Mr. O goes on to comment about how this might have played a role in the sinking of the city of Atlnatis and why the ancients felt it would offer them worthwhile protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prior of the Ori
    While at first I thought the Wraith 'male' commander caste used telekinesis on Colonel Sumner in Rising, I think now he just used his own pure strength to send him flying. I think you can also safely say that the 'Hybrids' created by the retrovirus can be added to the caste list as I think one of the interviews Gateworld made had one of the creators say that Micheal is essentially a 'fifth caste'.
    We looked at the scene from Rising and the way the Wraith raises his arm seems to imply telekenesis of some sort was used. It's not clear cut but it seems like it would be very difficult to physically shove a person the way he does it.

    Hybrids like Michael are just Wraith males who were transformed into humans before turning back into normal Wraith males again.

    I am a bit surpised that the shapes are 11 km's in length as I always thought they were more along the line of 5 km but I might have been conservative in my thoughts there.
    We had originally pegged them at around 5-6km to but new scalings done on no mans land/misbegotten upped the numbers. Mr. O did the scaling here and it's interesting because the 10.9km figure he got from those eps meshes almost perfectly with an 11km figure given by SGAs FX people in a recent magazine interview.(I think Mr. O rememebrs the name of the mag) Given this we felt 11km was as close to an official canon length as we had at the time.

    Was it ever confirmed that the Scoutship in 'Aurora' is the same as the transport ship in 'Allies'? Its a reasonable assumption but not sure if its taken as fact yet. Also I think mention needs to be made about the Wraith Cruisers, the ancient Wraith Supply Ships and the Wraith Computer Virus. In regards to the ships, they look like an amalgamation of mechanical and biological designs since the engines and the hanger bay look a lot more machine-like compared to the blue organic skin of the ship.
    They were both reffered to as scoutships in the show as I recall. It's possible that the one in Aurora may have been different but we didn't actually see it so it's tough to say. We didn't really get into cruisers or supply ships because they're not something that's part of a hiveship, they're ships in their own right Maybe at some point in the future we will though.

    The computer virus does seem like a good candidate for an addition though. It's another type of weapon.

    Also I think it needs to be mentioned that the Darts plays another vital role for the Wraith in fleet engagements. Namely, as an interceptor to stop incoming projectiles or drones from hitting the Hiveship. Another point is that while Darts are short ranged, it does seem that they can be enhanced for long 'scouting' roles as was the case when that lone Dart scouted Atlantis before exploding and sending its data back to the Hive ships. Presumably, this enhancement made allowed it to travel under sublight at faster and longer speeds after exiting from a nearby Stargate close to the Lantean System.
    The super fast dart is something of a mystery. Even if it was launched from the next system over and travelled at .99c it should still have literally taken years to get to Atlantis. The alternative is that it was launched by a hiveship that passed even closer to the city but then that makes you wonder why that hive was never detected while as numerous others were.

  4. #24
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    EDIT: Ouroboros already adressed certain points.

    Quote Originally Posted by An-Alteran View Post
    Three things:
    First you assume that the Wraith use weaker blasts against the Ancient shields because they drain them better.
    No. This was based on the level of damage done to the satellite with the "falling star" bolts.
    Though they were particularily fast, and according to one of the theories incorporated into the essay, this would mean less powerful bolts, it's not going to mean that those bolts were significantly more powerful if slower.
    But above all, it's a theory meant to make sense of the existence of two distincitively types of weapons, and even seen within the same episode, and why the other Wraith hiveships bared those weapons when they attacked the city.

    We stipulate that the falling stars are either particularily efficient against lantian shields, or they're a tech that is only possessed by a fraction of the Wraith, explaining why the ships comprising the armada sent to attack Atlantis had this tech, but not the hiveships seen in No Man's Land, which one of them actually belonged to a minor queen.

    It was also done to explain the point of sinking a city beneath a mere 100 m or 200 m water barrier.

    I have another idea about why those ships fired different energy blasts at Atlantis:
    The weapons have variable charge levels, and a full charged blast is to owerful, and will overload the weapon. So in continuous fire, they are less usefull and will take longer to drain a ZPM then say the weaker fast firing ones.
    So it is not a matter of using a more effective weapon, but a weapon more effectively over time.
    It does not work because you can see that in Siege part 3, the hiveships and cruisers were firing the fireballs at the Daedalus at rates of fire which were just extremely close to the ones for the falling stars against Atlantis.

    So the ROF is quite irrelevant here.

  5. #25
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prior_of_the_Ori View Post
    While at first I thought the Wraith 'male' commander caste used telekinesis on Colonel Sumner in Rising, I think now he just used his own pure strength to send him flying.
    I disagree. Sumner is clearly sent flying without the Wraith male dealing any particular powerful punch. In fact, I think he just rises his hands and the human goes flying backwards.

    I think you can also safely say that the 'Hybrids' created by the retrovirus can be added to the caste list as I think one of the interviews Gateworld made had one of the creators say that Micheal is essentially a 'fifth caste'.
    Michael is more an artificial creation than a real caste of wraithized humans or ancients.

    Ouro and I have been talking about how those Wraith display powers that have only been attributed to evolved humans and ancients. Counting the FTL multi LY range mental connection, the Wraith actually evolved pretty fast in that department, and we don't believe that the insect part in them is responsible of this.
    Then comes plenty of theories about where the Wraith really come from, if the ones we see aren't just a subcaste, and if they didn't actually convert Ancients and genetically enhance humans or themselves, etc.

    I am a bit surpised that the shapes are 11 km's in length as I always thought they were more along the line of 5 km but I might have been conservative in my thoughts there.
    The 5 km figure is the one hich was thrown around based on calcs from the schematic seen in Allies. However, that schematic has an oversized Daedalus, and I was plesantly surprized to see that using external shots resulted into a 11 km long hiveship, pretty much what the art director said in some SF magazine one or two months ago when complaining about how there were visual screwups, especially in scalings, and that the hiveships were supposed to be 11 km long.

    Was it ever confirmed that the Scoutship in 'Aurora' is the same as the transport ship in 'Allies'?
    No, but it's the most probable solution thus far.

    Its a reasonable assumption but not sure if its taken as fact yet. Also I think mention needs to be made about the Wraith Cruisers, the ancient Wraith Supply Ships and the Wraith Computer Virus. In regards to the ships, they look like an amalgamation of mechanical and biological designs since the engines and the hanger bay look a lot more machine-like compared to the blue organic skin of the ship.
    We still have to refine the essays, despite the time we've spent on them, but I'm not sure we'll devote a large part to other ships.

    There are missing parts which do exist, since we already talked about, notably regarding the super structure, the use of culling beams as a defense system and the existence of the giant docking arms, plus a whole chapter titled Locations of Interest.
    We'll update all that, but we can't guarantee this to happen ASAP.

    Also I think it needs to be mentioned that the Darts plays another vital role for the Wraith in fleet engagements. Namely, as an interceptor to stop incoming projectiles or drones from hitting the Hiveship. Another point is that while Darts are short ranged, it does seem that they can be enhanced for long 'scouting' roles as was the case when that lone Dart scouted Atlantis before exploding and sending its data back to the Hive ships. Presumably, this enhancement made allowed it to travel under sublight at faster and longer speeds after exiting from a nearby Stargate close to the Lantean System.
    Yeah good points. Those are already present in freshier versions of the essays. We've been pretty much working on some older basis, since I had to move to another city during the following months.

    Anyway, missing pieces of technology I think can include the 'solid' holograms the Wraith scientist used when he first made the mistaken of leaving Wraith DNA in humans.
    I think it's actually very similar to the dart fake canopy. A forcefield of a given colour, though it clearly lacks the very precise recreation of a fake rocky wall.

    There is of course the
    Spoiler:
    telepathic generator showed recently
    and the already mentioned computer virus weapon. There is of course two things mentioned but not seen on screen, one of which is the subspace booster relays that transmit tracking devices to the Hiveships and the 'stronghold' mentioned by the team when under the sway of Lucius in Irresistable though its quite possible that this 'stronghold' was not a fixed based structure but rather a Hiveship that landed.

    If some of this has already been mentioned then please excuse that part.
    Ah, I'm curious about those relay boosters. Where is the reference to be found?

  6. #26
    Major Prior_of_the_Ori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    I disagree. Sumner is clearly sent flying without the Wraith male dealing any particular powerful punch. In fact, I think he just rises his hands and the human goes flying backwards.
    Which is why I also at first thought it was telekinesis but the lack of seeing it or even mention of it on the show makes me think otherwise. Just checking through Rising part two again and the male Wraith 'commanders' had is capable of touching Sumner but the thing is his back is towards the camera which may be disguising the Wraiths reach. Just letting you know about this, could be wrong here but just thought I should mention it.

    I think it's actually very similar to the dart fake canopy. A forcefield of a given colour, though it clearly lacks the very precise recreation of a fake rocky wall.
    Interesting line of thought there. I always thought they were separate but now that you mention it, it does remind me of the protective 'shield' of the Dart. Though the research lab one was keyed more to allow Wraith DNA to pass through.

    Ah, I'm curious about those relay boosters. Where is the reference to be found?
    I believe they were mentioned in that early season 1 episode when Teyla was using her 'necklace' and it was transmitting to the Wraith. I think they mentioned at that time, the 'relay' stations. So it would mean that Wraith tracking abilities are done so through standard subspace use while communication may be done by the Hivemind.


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  7. #27
    Brigadier General Buba uognarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Guys in may be interesting for you 2 to note the ways in which larger Wraith ships are controlled e.g the mental interface as it shows how their tech is similar to the ancients...

    also maybe some speculation on things like tractor beams and such (for example when they moved the asteroids to attack atlantis and in No Mans Land when johns f-302 was seemingly pulled towards the hive ship)...
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

  8. #28
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prior_of_the_Ori View Post
    Which is why I also at first thought it was telekinesis but the lack of seeing it or even mention of it on the show makes me think otherwise. Just checking through Rising part two again and the male Wraith 'commanders' had is capable of touching Sumner but the thing is his back is towards the camera which may be disguising the Wraiths reach. Just letting you know about this, could be wrong here but just thought I should mention it.
    Hm, I've checked the scene, and it's clearly TK. The problem we're facing is a lack of consistency.

    Interesting line of thought there. I always thought they were separate but now that you mention it, it does remind me of the protective 'shield' of the Dart. Though the research lab one was keyed more to allow Wraith DNA to pass through.
    Much more elaborate it was.

    I believe they were mentioned in that early season 1 episode when Teyla was using her 'necklace' and it was transmitting to the Wraith. I think they mentioned at that time, the 'relay' stations. So it would mean that Wraith tracking abilities are done so through standard subspace use while communication may be done by the Hivemind.
    Yes, exactly, I recall that now!
    It doesn't undermine the super psycomm ability displayed in Misbegotten though, otherwise, if there had been a relay on that planet, Michael would have not needed that kind of ritual.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    I've had a thought on the Wraith culling beam:

    The problem is the massive energy levels involved in converting people-sized masses into pure energy. If the darts have the ability to handle that much energy, why don't they just pick up a few rocks and blast the raw energy at a target, or convert every other atom in a target into energy, or antimatter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    Also, take a moment to think about the amount of computer processing power that would be required to scan and save the complete atmoic-level assembly instructions of an entire human being in the mere split second he is dissassembled by a culling beam.
    So, here's my hypothesis ...

    Firstly, look at this:



    This is Bob's dart apparently 'scanning' Atlantis. Looks rather familiar too doesn't it. We know Bob beamed down sometime, probably onto a balcony or something, but that beam is being used to scan Atlantis as well.

    My hypothesis is that when a human enters a Wraith culling beam, it shunts them into a transdimensional holding area, a small pocket of subspace contained within the dart, rather than turning them into energy Star Trek transporter style.

    In Duet, Cadman's mind get's stuck in McKay's body after an accident with a dart beam. So what's going on there?

    My second hypothesis is that as the dart shunts the target into the subspace pocket, it scans their mind state, storing their brain patterns in a computer on board the dart. When their bodies are zapped back into the real world, their mind states are returned back into their bodies.

    Maybe, when the target's body is sent into subspace in the dart beam, it gives their nervous system such a huge shock that it shuts down, or maybe it's harmful in some other way, so for the prey to still be alive when they come out of the process, they've got to be stored elsewhere.

    So, going back to the picture of Bobs dart above, I think that the shimmery, transparent beam we actually see is a scanner that images a target's nervous system. This can also be reconfigured for recon as above.

    *********

    Some thoughts on the Wraith stunner:

    It overloads the nervous system, and knocks a target unconscious, but it also can damage puddle jumpers and blow pieces off crates. So what's the deal with that then?

    For the primary sensory overload syatem, I think it's just a high-voltage ion gun. It concentrates a massive electrical potential onto a sharp filament inside the weapon, which causes a corona to burst from the tip. It's this stream of electrons that interferes with the target's nervous system and does the actual stunning.

    However, such a device would have a range of a few feet, from "aaaaaaargh that hurt" close to the corona tip, to "oooh, it tingles" a few metres away due to the electrons dispersing.

    So, I hypothesise that the second part of the weapon is a sonic cannon that produces some sort of vortex that carries the corona pulse towards the target. This vortex produces the air distortion effect around the blue glowing part of the stunner projectile.

    It would be this sonic vortex that chips pieces off crates and sometimes pushes people over who've been shot with the stunner.

    The larger rifles' projectiles seem to go faster, produce a stronger air distortion effect, and hit harder, possibly because they can produce a more powerful vortex than the smaller pistols. They also seem to stun for longer with more lasting effects, so they seem to be able to generate a more powerful stunner shot too.

  10. #30
    Lieutenant Colonel Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith Scientist View Post
    I've had a thought on the Wraith culling beam:

    The problem is the massive energy levels involved in converting people-sized masses into pure energy. If the darts have the ability to handle that much energy, why don't they just pick up a few rocks and blast the raw energy at a target, or convert every other atom in a target into energy, or antimatter.



    So, here's my hypothesis ...
    This is similar to something I'd considered myself but it's fairly obvious from dialog that it is taking people apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duet
    ZELENKA: Uh, well, yes, (he bends down to his computer again) but it’s very complex. This interface controls the machine that dematerialises people, stores their information and then rematerialises them again when commanded to.
    SHEPPARD: Great. Command it to!
    ZELENKA: Uh, I can’t.
    BECKETT: From what we can tell, the materialiser is storing two lifesigns.
    ZELENKA: Yes.
    SHEPPARD: Which is good!
    ZELENKA: Yes, but there is only enough power in the Dart’s energy cell to successfully rematerialise one of them. (He shows his laptop to John. The screen indicates two signals stored in the materialiser.) Power to the rematerialiser has been completely severed and emergency back-up power has been completely run down.
    SHEPPARD: OK.
    ZELENKA: You have to decide which one we’re going to beam out. (He pushes the laptop towards John.)
    BECKETT: It’s a terrible choice to have to make.
    SHEPPARD: It’s easy. Beam out McKay – he’ll figure it out how to get Cadman free.
    ZELENKA: No, no, no, sorry – I was unclear.
    BECKETT: There’s no way of telling which is which.
    ZELENKA: Yes. They just read as lifesigns.
    SHEPPARD: Perfect(!) (He looks at the screen.) Alright – that one. (He points to one of the lifesigns.) Go. (To the others) Stand aside.
    (Everyone stands clear and Radek activates his computer. A beam shoots out of the Dart and a moment later, Rodney is standing there. He looks around blankly.)
    SHEPPARD: Rodney, you OK?
    It dematerializes people and stores them as something they call a "lifesign" which is presumably some sort of energy packet that equates to a person. It also records their information (how to put them back together) and stores that.

    Like I mention in my article there's no real reason why they shouldn't be able to copy people like this, just use the same information copy and additional raw energy or matter to make a second person. The only thing I cans ee standing in the way of this is if Atlantis is going to introduce some idea of a human "soul" that the Wraith technolgoy can not copy/create but only store.

    That in itself is rather creepy as it would mean that they can literally imprison a human soul within their machines.

    Pity the writers never use any of these possabilities to actually make them scary huh?

  11. #31
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Maybe the darts don't actually generate that amount of energy, but through some fuzzy exotic principle, manage to have buffers and power conduits that can transfer those levels of energy.
    However, I'd like to know how you could theoretically turn matter into energy without spending insane amounts of energy.

    As for the firepower figures, this was based on a screenshot from Misbegotten.
    There's nothing definitive there, and the interpretation of the phenomenoms occuring at the point of impact may suggest that we may need more evidence than this single event.
    It's of course literally absurd to think that such ships could not achieve at least that level of destruction, especially since the Wraith defeated the Lantians and their super advanced weapons.

    There's also the fact that looking at No Man's Land, we see that a single nuclear detonation almost at point blank range is not enough to actually vaporize or melt external armor, while fire exchanged between hiveships produce massive explosions, and for the most powerful of them, send large chunks of the super structure flying left and right.

    No Man's Land is an example of indirect evidence, and clearly boils down to the yield of the nukes fired by the Daedalus.
    All evidence thus far has proved that the ordinance ranges from low megatons to possibly thousands of megatons (very low gigatons).

  12. #32

    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    This is similar to something I'd considered myself but it's fairly obvious from dialog that it is taking people apart.

    It dematerializes people and stores them as something they call a "lifesign" which is presumably some sort of energy packet that equates to a person. It also records their information (how to put them back together) and stores that.
    Although what happened in Duet seems to support the theory that the culling beam stores mind states seperately to the actual bodies, matter-energy conversion or not.

    The biggest problem with a convert-into-energy device is the huge amounts of energy involved. Picking up a large pile of rocks and would give a dart ludicrous think-dinosaur-killing-asteroid firepower capable of drilling through the Deadalus' shields like they aren't there, not to mention the uber-explosion that would result if you blew up a dart. Yet they haven't demonstrated any awesome power like that.

    Plus, as you mentioned, the inevitable copy-paste feature. Darts could just go scoop up some dirt and turn into more darts, or whatever they wanted.

    Does "dematerialisation" have to mean "convert into energy"? The dictionary definition is roughly "make something disappear by making it immaterial". If you transitioned something to a subspace pocket, that would be making them dissapear, and they would be immaterial from the PoV of anyone in this region of space.

    And the people in the dart are refered to as "lifesigns". How can there be lifesigns if they're just energy in a battery?

    Do these blips represent the human as energy, or the information of a person converted into energy, or their mind states, or the subject in stasis in a subspace pocket?



    If the culling beam worked as I described, these blips would represent both the person's body in stasis in a subspace pocket, and their mind state (their "information"?). Upon "rematerialisation" they would emerge and have their mind state downloaded back into their body.

    Maybe Zelenka just didn't understand enough about the technology to say how it worked beyond "it stores people"?

    I just think it makes far more sense that having the darts with such ludicrous amounts of energy and computing power.

  13. #33
    Lieutenant Colonel Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith Scientist View Post
    Although what happened in Duet seems to support the theory that the culling beam stores mind states seperately to the actual bodies, matter-energy conversion or not.

    The biggest problem with a convert-into-energy device is the huge amounts of energy involved. Picking up a large pile of rocks and would give a dart ludicrous think-dinosaur-killing-asteroid firepower capable of drilling through the Deadalus' shields like they aren't there, not to mention the uber-explosion that would result if you blew up a dart. Yet they haven't demonstrated any awesome power like that.
    There's a difference between being able to store the energy and being able to use it in some sort of weapon I'd say. Making a bomb of it is fairly easy but doing so wouldn't really render any better result than typical Wraith energy weapons seem to.

    Wondering why darts don't explode when they have people in them is another curious point but one not entirely unprecidented. Virtually all ships in stargate don't seem to explode in a way consistant with how much energy they should have flowing around in them. It might be possible that the energy is stored in subspace like you go on to suggest for the human bodies.

    Plus, as you mentioned, the inevitable copy-paste feature. Darts could just go scoop up some dirt and turn into more darts, or whatever they wanted.
    Indeed. We don't actually know how the Wraith build things though so transmuting it from normal matter with the culling beam technology (or related technology) remains an actual possability.

    Does "dematerialisation" have to mean "convert into energy"? The dictionary definition is roughly "make something disappear by making it immaterial". If you transitioned something to a subspace pocket, that would be making them dissapear, and they would be immaterial from the PoV of anyone in this region of space.
    Well to make somthing non-material you would presumably have to at least make it non solid. The wording of the episode strongly implies that the humans culled are broken down in some fashion for storage which is why I settled on that for my explanation.

    It's not the only possible explanation true, and it does have a few problems, but right now it does seem like the one with the most support.

    Maybe Zelenka just didn't understand enough about the technology to say how it worked beyond "it stores people"?
    What happened is the writers invented something that sounds an awful lot like a matter>energy converter without thinking the implications or requirements all the way through. If we're keeping SoD though we're not allowed to use that as an explanation.

    I just think it makes far more sense that having the darts with such ludicrous amounts of energy and computing power.
    The computing power isn't isolated in darts. The Wraith are obviously very skilled at writing computer code and likely at building hardware as well. Looking at how they were able to write a computer program that could achieve a near human level of intelligence using only the resources of the completely alien Daedalus computer system clearly shows that.

    Their computer/programming tech is way up there.

    The energy requirments are a bit harder to explain. If we grant that they have some method of converting matter to energy that doesn't require vast amounts of energy though it gets easier. If we grant that we only need to worry about storage and transfer and their weapon yields prove that they have the tech to shunt power levels like this around fairly easily.

    Here's another interesting bit from duet about the culling beam

    IST (in German): That reminds me of my nephew’s birth!
    (John watches, then turns to Radek who is at the top of a ladder leading up to the cockpit where another scientist sits inside.)
    SHEPPARD: How’s it coming?
    ZELENKA: Well, the good news is we were able to stabilise the lifesigns signature. (He comes down the ladder.) Now it’s just a question of getting the machine online again.
    SHEPPARD: Great. How do we power it up?
    ZELENKA: Well, that’s the bad news. The machine uses a very specialised transformer to convert raw power into highly stable, very specific stream of power. (He goes over to a tray labelled “Transformer bits” and picks it up to show John.) Now the transformer’s crucial in operating the machine safely and, uh, (he picks up the transformer and gives it to John) it’s been damaged.
    SHEPPARD (looking at it and then handing it back): Don’t suppose there are any spares in the trunk?
    ZELENKA: We’re working on reverse engineering one.
    SHEPPARD: Good. Let me know the second you have something.
    (He walks away as Radek starts shouting instructions to the other scientists.)
    ZELENKA (in Czech): Well, OK then, come on kids, go go go. We have to finish this one! Let's get going! Hurry!
    So theres some sort of component that converts raw power into some sort of specific and specialized type of energy the dart uses to rematerialize people.

    The talk about stablizing the lifesigns signature, and indeed the whole premise of this episode, has interestign implications to.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Two points i thought i'd bring up.

    The first one is that now that we've seen a quantifiable event in the form of the CME in "Echoes", we could easily figure out the Wraith firepower based on that figure (when compared to the timeperiod involved in the bombing of Atlantis). This would of course be an extreme lower limit, as i've yet to see anything but calcs based on the KE involved in the CME incident. If nothing else, this would give further credence to the high firepower levels of the Wraith.

    Second is just a minor point and is based on nothing but speculation. Wraith Drone faceplates. I don't think they're fixed to the face. Why? Because of "Misbegotten". There were a number of people down on that planet and none had any kind of unusual bonestructure in their face. Now i realize that the De-Wraithifying could have removed that faceplate, but i just think it more likely that they are indeed normal Wraith and the faceplate is nothing but a form of armor.

  15. #35
    Lieutenant Colonel Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by l33telboi View Post
    Two points i thought i'd bring up.

    The first one is that now that we've seen a quantifiable event in the form of the CME in "Echoes", we could easily figure out the Wraith firepower based on that figure (when compared to the timeperiod involved in the bombing of Atlantis). This would of course be an extreme lower limit, as i've yet to see anything but calcs based on the KE involved in the CME incident. If nothing else, this would give further credence to the high firepower levels of the Wraith.
    We're hoping to get some good numbers from this once it becomes more apparent to what degree exactly the ZPM enhanced a 304s shields.

    Second is just a minor point and is based on nothing but speculation. Wraith Drone faceplates. I don't think they're fixed to the face. Why? Because of "Misbegotten". There were a number of people down on that planet and none had any kind of unusual bonestructure in their face. Now i realize that the De-Wraithifying could have removed that faceplate, but i just think it more likely that they are indeed normal Wraith and the faceplate is nothing but a form of armor.
    The Wraith skeleton in "childhood's end" has a faceplate that is seems to be a part of his skull.

    You can sort of see it in this pic here.
    http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/1...l/106x192.html

    That still doesn't rule out some sort of bonding of the facemask to the skull after the fact though. With their understanding of biotech it might stay stuck on even after the rest of the Wraith rots away.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    The Wraith skeleton in "childhood's end" has a faceplate that is seems to be a part of his skull.

    You can sort of see it in this pic here.
    http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/1...l/106x192.html

    That still doesn't rule out some sort of bonding of the facemask to the skull after the fact though. With their understanding of biotech it might stay stuck on even after the rest of the Wraith rots away.
    While the 'bone plate' is a cool and interesting way to have it I think its the secondary option of it being a facemask. I mean if its a Serpent Guard Jaffa with his 'helm' and it was activated and he died we wouldnt make the assumption that the Jaffa had a giant cobra head for its head.

    Plus being a facemask would leave the option for a possible HUD being displayed as the Wraith dont seem to have a problem in using advanced tech to help them unlike the Ori and the Goa'uld who tended to give their followers primitive weapons to fight their foes.


    'Hallowed are the children of the Ori. CROWD: Hallowed are we. Hallowed are the Ori.' -

    'Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil. In the name of the Gods, ships shall be built to carry the warriors out among the stars and we will spread Origin to all the unbelievers. The power of the Ori will be felt far and wide and the wicked shall be vanquished' -


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  17. #37
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prior_of_the_Ori View Post
    While the 'bone plate' is a cool and interesting way to have it I think its the secondary option of it being a facemask. I mean if its a Serpent Guard Jaffa with his 'helm' and it was activated and he died we wouldnt make the assumption that the Jaffa had a giant cobra head for its head.

    Plus being a facemask would leave the option for a possible HUD being displayed as the Wraith dont seem to have a problem in using advanced tech to help them unlike the Ori and the Goa'uld who tended to give their followers primitive weapons to fight their foes.
    There's a difference though. In the picture above, the faceplate clearly looks like dried bone, like it's grown out of the skull.
    So, true, with biotech, you don't know where naturally grown appendages stops and fused parts begins, a bit like a biomechanoid.

    It's true that Misbegotten had no Wraith wear such a faceplate. But there's another possibility. These Wraith are just so weak and down the chain that they simply don't survive dewraithizer.

    Quote Originally Posted by l33telboi View Post
    Two points i thought i'd bring up.

    The first one is that now that we've seen a quantifiable event in the form of the CME in "Echoes", we could easily figure out the Wraith firepower based on that figure (when compared to the timeperiod involved in the bombing of Atlantis). This would of course be an extreme lower limit, as i've yet to see anything but calcs based on the KE involved in the CME incident. If nothing else, this would give further credence to the high firepower levels of the Wraith.
    Adding to Ouro's reply and to post here what he discussed about a bit earlier on, I have to say that we don't know how efficient the shield tech on the Daedalus is.
    As I see it, a ZPM is just damn powerful, significantly more than what the higher figures of Echoes.
    Even if I'm wrong anyway, the point is that we don't how much of good use the shields make of the ZPM.

    Say we got two Power Sources.

    PS A, the by default one, gives you a power of 1 unit of energy per second. Now, let's assume this translates into 5 units of shielding per second.

    Now, we get got PW B (the ZPM), rare and all. We plug it to the ship's systems and power conduits. PS B has a power of 1,000,000 units of energy per second. The factor between the two power sourcse is 1,000,000.
    Now, does that mean that the shield now have a yield of 5,000,000 units of shielding per second? (100% efficiency)

    I believe that 304s shields couldn't even take advantage of a decent percentage of the power provided by a ZPM. The limiting factor being the shield tech, or the power conduits (even if the feat achieved in Echoes is insane and proves that the Daedalus has power conduits which can at least maintain that flux of energy, which is quite insane, and puts to shame many SF universes).

    Maybe in the final part of SG-1's 10th season, the other 304 using a ZPM will provide a figure, either by dialogue or visual, but it will have to be properly analyzed and taken with a grain of salt at first, before assuming anything wrong.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Adding to Ouro's reply and to post here what he discussed about a bit earlier on, I have to say that we don't know how efficient the shield tech on the Daedalus is.
    As I see it, a ZPM is just damn powerful, significantly more than what the higher figures of Echoes.
    Even if I'm wrong anyway, the point is that we don't how much of good use the shields make of the ZPM.

    Say we got two Power Sources.

    PS A, the by default one, gives you a power of 1 unit of energy per second. Now, let's assume this translates into 5 units of shielding per second.

    Now, we get got PW B (the ZPM), rare and all. We plug it to the ship's systems and power conduits. PS B has a power of 1,000,000 units of energy per second. The factor between the two power sourcse is 1,000,000.
    Now, does that mean that the shield now have a yield of 5,000,000 units of shielding per second? (100% efficiency)

    I believe that 304s shields couldn't even take advantage of a decent percentage of the power provided by a ZPM. The limiting factor being the shield tech, or the power conduits (even if the feat achieved in Echoes is insane and proves that the Daedalus has power conduits which can at least maintain that flux of energy, which is quite insane, and puts to shame many SF universes).

    Maybe in the final part of SG-1's 10th season, the other 304 using a ZPM will provide a figure, either by dialogue or visual, but it will have to be properly analyzed and taken with a grain of salt at first, before assuming anything wrong.

    You are indeed correct. I actually hadn't thought all that much about the 304's own ability to deflect some of the energy against its shields.

  19. #39
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Frak, I hate being quoted while my message is full of unfinished sentences, typos and vocabulary redundancy.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    There's a difference though. In the picture above, the faceplate clearly looks like dried bone, like it's grown out of the skull.
    So, true, with biotech, you don't know where naturally grown appendages stops and fused parts begins, a bit like a biomechanoid.

    It's true that Misbegotten had no Wraith wear such a faceplate. But there's another possibility. These Wraith are just so weak and down the chain that they simply don't survive dewraithizer.
    To be honest, I was under the impression that the big 'human converted' bald Wraith were what the warrior drones looked like when the retrovirus worked. Though why they were bald is another matter.


    'Hallowed are the children of the Ori. CROWD: Hallowed are we. Hallowed are the Ori.' -

    'Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil. In the name of the Gods, ships shall be built to carry the warriors out among the stars and we will spread Origin to all the unbelievers. The power of the Ori will be felt far and wide and the wicked shall be vanquished' -


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