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    when i went to the haunted halloween tour, i got to go into a couple of the sets for this episode. I believe one was the storage device room, and the other was the cockpit

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      Originally posted by Night Spring View Post
      Well... I must say the award for bravest man goes to Paul McGillion.

      lol..DORK alert!! I want to know why they didn't all have hat hair when they took their wee 'bonnets' off! Shep, well he wasn't wearing one but the rest, Beckett's hair was still that inpecable pointy-do!

      And pushing the shallowness aside. The 'bonnets' are what astronauts wear, its to secure their head sets to their heads, zero-g would make anything inside the helmet 'float'. If Shep's inner ear headphones had come out he wouldn't be putting them back in without taking his helmet off!! Having a headphone floating around in front of your face would become a dangerous distraction, not to mention you'd loose communcations (how dumb would thaty be???). I can see him being given the wee bonnet and going NOT THE HAIR NEVER THE HAIR! when someone tried to put it on and touch his 'do'.

      So the rest were realistic at least.

      But then Suicidal Sheppy, the man who just wont die, was never one for realism! Not sure if thats part of his charm or just infurating because the writers use it so much...

      Comment


        Originally posted by Chailyn View Post
        And the key word is 'almost'.

        Yeah, wow...that's bad. Did Teyla and Ronon wear them too? God, I'm trying to picture Ronon having to stuff his hair into one of those bonnets! Okay, bad image.

        Ronon and Teyla stayed in the jumper at the beginning so we never saw them in spacesuits.

        Originally posted by Night Spring View Post
        Not in The Ark, but in Aurora, all four team members were in spacesuits. And yes, they all had the white bonnets. However, they managed NOT to show any closeups of Ronon in a bonnet, LOL! This is the closest they got. (Ronon is way in the back, behind Rodney.)

        http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...rora-04382.png
        And in fact that is NOT Jason Momoa in any of those scenes (which is why you never see his face in the spacesuit) because they coulnd't fit the spacesuit helmet over his head! It's on the Aurora commentary and I think it's awesome!

        Originally posted by starfox View Post
        Nitpick: the 1000 people included the 200 children. Kids are people, too.
        (and what makes it so all-fired important that there are kids, anyway? Killing a kid and killing an adult are the same level of bad, killing the kid just looks worse.)

        Also, I'm tempted to believe that Shep didn't even consider the shuttle option until Teyla was trapped. Some people think better under pressure. TV characters generally fit into this category. This wasn't deliberate. It was a believable split-second human response borne of desperation.

        Even if Shep did think about and discard the shuttle idea before Teyla got sucked in, so what? The decision was basically throwing his life away. If the shuttle was destroyed, the device would have been destroyed along with him. It's stupidity. It was stupid and selfish to do it for Teyla, but the fact that it's his team member, someone who he has claimed responsibility for, when the people of the planet knew what they were getting into (and probably would have died anyway had the team not showed up; the power source wasn't gonna last forever) is what pushed him to do it.

        It's a normal human reaction. I could kill 1000 people I didn't know with much less difficulty than I would have putting a gun to a friend's head, or doing anything to allow or hasten the death of a friend. And if I thought that my dying would stop their deaths, I would lay down my life before allowing either of the above to happen. But Sheppard wasn't dying for these people, he would have been dying with them. And there's no point in throwing yourself away with people you don't know, who you've never seen, who won't feel it, who are just information in a data bank.

        It's like the "fight to the death" comment earlier in the show. Ronon didn't just want to sit around and die, so John offered him a way out. He was joking, but the same sentiment applies. He couldn't just let Teyla die. Like the deathmatch, he would have gone out, too, but he would have done something.
        I'm just gonna leave your entire quoted post in there and say I totally agree. You've explained that far better than I.

        Originally posted by Korean_Turtle87 View Post
        when i went to the haunted halloween tour, i got to go into a couple of the sets for this episode. I believe one was the storage device room, and the other was the cockpit
        Cool! Lucky you!
        sigpic

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          Originally posted by Night Spring View Post
          Well... I must say the award for bravest man goes to Paul McGillion.

          LOL!!!

          Comment


            Originally posted by PG15 View Post
            I'm not going to try to defend Shep's actions. All I'm gonna say is: I would do exactly what he did. Does that make me morally selfish? Probably, but I don't really care. I would gladly save, say, my mother vs. 1000 people I've never seen or heard of before.
            That's fine, I admit I'd really struggle with it myself, but it would have been cool to see that on the screen huh. I think it's fairly safe to say though that no one would praise you for picking your friends/reletives over 1000 others, I certainly wouldn't expect any praise for it. Questions of human drama and ethics like this should be the bread and butter of a well written script. They used to be about 7-8 years ago on SG-1 a lot of the time.

            Like I said above if I had any reason to believe that they would use this as an opportunity to advance Sheppard's character I wouldn't mind it one bit. It's even consistant with his emotion driven personality that he'd do something like that. That doesn't make it right per say, but it does fit with his characterization and it would be interesting to see this explored more.

            I'd also like to see him react in some fashion to the realization that others can, and now have, manipulated him fairly easily, and to great effect, with his emotions.

            That old man literally saved his civilization solely by manipulating Sheppard's emotions.

            Originally posted by starfox
            Nitpick: the 1000 people included the 200 children. Kids are people, too.
            (and what makes it so all-fired important that there are kids, anyway? Killing a kid and killing an adult are the same level of bad, killing the kid just looks worse.)
            Yeah I just phrased that badly, I know it's 800/200 and not 1000/200. I'd say killing a kid can be objectively measured to be worse though, they're more defenceless, they have more life to live, they're probably more "innocent"... etc etc.

            In any case it's 1000 lives of some variety, I didn't even mention the great artists and what not who's work would die with them or the fact that letting those people would not just be letting 1000 people die but letting a whole civilization be destroyed forever.

            Also, I'm tempted to believe that Shep didn't even consider the shuttle option until Teyla was trapped. Some people think better under pressure. TV characters generally fit into this category. This wasn't deliberate. It was a believable split-second human response borne of desperation.

            Even if Shep did think about and discard the shuttle idea before Teyla got sucked in, so what? The decision was basically throwing his life away. If the shuttle was destroyed, the device would have been destroyed along with him. It's stupidity. It was stupid and selfish to do it for Teyla, but the fact that it's his team member, someone who he has claimed responsibility for, when the people of the planet knew what they were getting into (and probably would have died anyway had the team not showed up; the power source wasn't gonna last forever) is what pushed him to do it.
            Teyla's also a soldier who does what she does with full knowledge that she might not come home one day.

            There's two ways you can approach the whole shuttle/device thing.

            -Questionable morality on the part of the Sheppard character: He was willing to take the risk for Teyla but not the 1000 people.

            -Plot convenience/lame writing: Like you just described about him suddenly "thinking" of a way to save everybody when his girlfriend got stuck but not before. I bang on the bad writing drum a lot though and I think Cuperus is probably the best writer they've got right now (the rest of this episode shows that) so I'm inclined to go with option A. I don't think Cuperus would intentionally write something so contrived as "I suddenly got me a plan, and right in the nick of time to! Convenient huh?" I'd expect that sort of lame cop-out from some of the others, but from what I've seen so far, I seriously think Cuperus is above that. Unless of course his work was screwed with after the fact.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Night Spring View Post
              Well... I must say the award for bravest man goes to Paul McGillion.

              LOL! I think you're right. Poor Paul! He's such a good sport. I wonder if Joe refused to wear one.

              Originally posted by allipeeps
              And in fact that is NOT Jason Momoa in any of those scenes (which is why you never see his face in the spacesuit) because they coulnd't fit the spacesuit helmet over his head! It's on the Aurora commentary and I think it's awesome!

              It is awesome. Thanks for sharing the extra info.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                I'd also like to see him react in some fashion to the realization that others can, and now have, manipulated him fairly easily, and to great effect, with his emotions.

                That old man literally saved his civilization solely by manipulating Sheppard's emotions.
                Good point. I wonder, if Shep thought about it, would he make a conscious effort to change? Or is the risk worth it to him? Or is it even something so ingrained in his view of himself that he can't change without destroying who he is in the process?

                Of course, we will never see such a debate on screen. The reset button has been in place ever since season 2, with the slight exception of the last few eps of that season.

                Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                Yeah I just phrased that badly, I know it's 800/200 and not 1000/200. I'd say killing a kid can be objectively measured to be worse though, they're more defenceless, they have more life to live, they're probably more "innocent"... etc etc.
                Huh. I don't see it as a case of 'innocence' per se, but that we, as the bigger, stronger adults, owe them our protection. It's a species imperative, and therefore an emotional trigger.

                Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                In any case it's 1000 lives of some variety, I didn't even mention the great artists and what not who's work would die with them or the fact that letting those people would not just be letting 1000 people die but letting a whole civilization be destroyed forever.
                Yeah, that's what really got me - not the lives themselves, though they were important, but that an entire world was sacrificed for the sake of those lives, and to loose them, too? Horrific. Teyla saw that, I think - even while she was arguing with Jamus, she looked like she wanted to cry.

                Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                I'd expect that sort of lame cop-out from some of the others, but from what I've seen so far, I seriously think Cuperus is above that. Unless of course his work was screwed with after the fact.
                Well, um, actually? It was. Ken came on earlier in this thread and said something to the effect of it being 'polished' by someone else, though of course that's normal for TV scripts, esp. if the writer is not one of the executive ptb. And I don't know what changes were made, so really I should just shut up now.

                But yeah, this was a great dilemma, and we should just both add ourselves to the list of people wishing it had been a two-parter, because then there would have been time to show Shep's internal debate or, given Shep, his poorly disguised desperate attempt to avoid an internal debate.

                Comment


                  I think this episode could be put in with the likes of 'Grace Under Pressure'
                  It's nice to see an episode where their thrown into a totally different situation
                  and I agree...it is quite 'early SG1ish'
                  "Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand!" Mark Twain (1835-1910)
                  "But you see, just because we've been dealt a certain hand doesn't mean we can't choose to rise above it. To conquer the boundaries of a destiny none of us wanted. To try and retain whatever essential humanity we can." ~Edward from Twilight
                  Historic Connections Ancient history resources business my Dad runs...go check it out

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                    Finally... I've had time to catch up on some post-holiday viewing.

                    A good solid episode all round... Interesting that comparisons have been made with Lifeboat because my immediate thought was that it was more like Apollo 13. I liked the feel of it because it wasn't typically Stargate in some ways and the dialogue here was particularly strong.
                    While it wasn't edge of the seat stuff, I enjoyed the human drama and that brief feeling of claustrophobia.
                    Good to see Teyla get more than her usual obligatory few lines.
                    sigpic
                    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Chailyn View Post
                      LOL! I think you're right. Poor Paul! He's such a good sport. I wonder if Joe refused to wear one.




                      It is awesome. Thanks for sharing the extra info.
                      LOL that's hilarious!
                      Proud Sam/Jack and Daniel/Vala and John/Teyla Shipper!
                      "We're Americans! Shoot the guys following us!"
                      Don S. Davis 1942-2008 R.I.P. My Friend.

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                        Originally posted by #1SomeGuy View Post
                        And uhm MORAL ISSUE...why did nobody seem to care that they killed all their own people with nukes?!?!?! They nuked the damn planet, knowing damn well that only the people on the shuttle would have survived and nobody else. That's horrible...stand together and fight, don't just go homicidal on everyone!
                        I'd say they didn't have time to care (assuming the "they" you refer to are the Atlantis people). Ronon had previously made his contempt known about just abandoning the second shuttle. Teyla looked pretty disgusted when the whole nuke thing came to light, but things spiraled out of control pretty quickly after that.
                        Time to dive into the fireworks.

                        Comment


                          I finally got to see this one and I got to say that I really liked it. It's just a classic team adventure ep and that's fine. LOL, I did find it funny that ShepHo was the only that never wore that white hat thing under the space suit. I guess ShepHo wanted to protect his carefully done bedhead hair, lol. Meredith went without the white hat thing for a little while in the middle of the ep, but that was only because he was in a hurry to get the helmet on his head.

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                            "This is Carson here . Calling Uranus. Come in!"

                            ...I know , I know it's childish

                            Comment


                              It wasn't anything mind-blowing like other episodes this season, but I still loved it.

                              The plot was good and entertaining, with a few twists to keep it interesting.

                              As many of you know, I'm an aviation and space nut, so I loved the deserted space station scenario, and I love any scene with John flying anything so that was a plus for me

                              John and Rodney banter. Yes! I always love that!

                              It was great to see John and Ronon scenes again. Except for Sateda, we hadn't seen much John/Ronon friendship interaction this season. We had seen more in season 2 and I missed that. I think it was my only complaint this season, the lack of John/Ronon interaction. John/Rodney and John/Ronon are my fave friendship pairings. So I was so glad to see the scenes with John and Ronon fighting to close the hatches and the scenes after that, with both of them locked in the compartment. Loved them. And we got Ronon whumping! Yes! Now, had we gotten John whumping simultaneously, the moment would have been perfect in my book. But well, I loved those scenes, so I'm not complaining

                              So Ronon is claustrophobic... I love when we get tidbits like this one about the characters.

                              Nice to see Lorne and Carson in the rescue mission.

                              Loved when a piece of the shuttle or some other space junk hits the window and Rodney is relieved that the windows didn't broke down so he says "I'm alive!" and then the window starts to crack and Rodney starts screaming "'m dead, I'm dead" while trying to put his helmet on

                              I loved when Lorne taps Rodney on the helmet

                              I loved when Rodney tells Lorne that they don't leave their people behind. Like John always does.

                              I loved the scenes with Teyla and Jamus, especially Teyla's last little speech, trying to convince Jamus to open or let her open the hatch.

                              John with those glasses and glove, cutting through the door with the torch... For some reason, I loved it

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by lily View Post
                                It wasn't anything mind-blowing like other episodes this season, but I still loved it.

                                The plot was good and entertaining, with a few twists to keep it interesting.

                                As many of you know, I'm an aviation and space nut, so I loved the deserted space station scenario, and I love any scene with John flying anything so that was a plus for me

                                John and Rodney banter. Yes! I always love that!

                                It was great to see John and Ronon scenes again. Except for Sateda, we hadn't seen much John/Ronon friendship interaction this season. We had seen more in season 2 and I missed that. I think it was my only complaint this season, the lack of John/Ronon interaction. John/Rodney and John/Ronon are my fave friendship pairings. So I was so glad to see the scenes with John and Ronon fighting to close the hatches and the scenes after that, with both of them locked in the compartment. Loved them. And we got Ronon whumping! Yes! Now, had we gotten John whumping simultaneously, the moment would have been perfect in my book. But well, I loved those scenes, so I'm not complaining

                                So Ronon is claustrophobic... I love when we get tidbits like this one about the characters.

                                Nice to see Lorne and Carson in the rescue mission.

                                Loved when a piece of the shuttle or some other space junk hits the window and Rodney is relieved that the windows didn't broke down so he says "I'm alive!" and then the window starts to crack and Rodney starts screaming "'m dead, I'm dead" while trying to put his helmet on

                                I loved when Lorne taps Rodney on the helmet

                                I loved when Rodney tells Lorne that they don't leave their people behind. Like John always does.

                                I loved the scenes with Teyla and Jamus, especially Teyla's last little speech, trying to convince Jamus to open or let her open the hatch.

                                John with those glasses and glove, cutting through the door with the torch... For some reason, I loved it
                                how could you not love a man with a blow torch

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