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    #16
    Hmm, where to start.

    First of all, uniting Earth. Not as easy as it sounds. Many cultures right here on our little blue orb are just as "primitive" and some are even more barbaric than many of the cultures we've encountered out there. Many of those cultures have value systems that are diametrically opposed to a constitutionally based federation (I'm thinking not only of Islamic middle-eastern countries here but also Communist Asia, much of South America and even, to a lesser degree, Socialist European countries).

    In order to form a federation you have to have sufficient common ground. Earth has failed thus far to find it (don't even get me started on the travesty of the UN), and I doubt that the revelation of interplanetary travel and the existence of alien life would change that much.

    You've got to remember that the United States is a special case. Its founders and early colonists were like-minded people from a similar cultural background working towards a common goal. They had the same values system (there were relatively small differences of opinion but on most matters of importance they were in complete agreement). It's true that America later became a "Melting Pot," accepting immigrants from many diverse countries and backgrounds, but these were largely disenfranchised people who individually made the choice to come to America and accept its culture and values system.

    Similarly the EU is a federation of very like-minded cultures and countries. We're talking about a pattern far different in principle and practise from Imperialism. You can't just impose the Western culture, values, and system of government on unwilling subjects. Well, you can, but it's immoral and it doesn't work in the long run. Sure, you can (and I believe ought to) offer them as an example, and give aid in putting them into practise if invited to do so.

    The problem of diversity and cultural differences can also be expanded to the interplanetary level. In fact the cultural divide is likely to be even more extreme since you're talking about not only thousands of years of independent cultural evolution on lines that are bound to be far different from our own (meaning, mainly "Western Civilization" as it's called) but alien races as well, species who not only do not share our culture and values, but may not even think like we do, right down to a neurological level. It would take hundreds of years, if ever, for such a federation to develop. I think the best we could hope for would be a strong treaty-based alliance of independent worlds, rather than an actual interplanetary government. In fact I think that such an alliance is ultimately preferable.

    Next, the sharing of technology. We've seen with the Tollan, the Nox, Ancients, and other races an unwillingness to share potentially dangerous technology with less advanced neighbors. We've even seen the potential consequences ourselves with sharing our own tech with other cultures ("The Other Side"). While I'm pretty much rabidly opposed to such nonsense as the Star Trek "Prime Directive" (in fact, in practice I think such a policy of absolute non-interference is extremely immoral, and incidentally rather impractical), I do think we would be justified in withholding information or technology that we considered potentially dangerous either to ourselves or to others, both to other nations here on Earth, and elsewhere in the galaxy. For example, nuclear power could benefit millions in 3rd world countries here on earth. But the US isn't about to hand out nuclear reactors as humanitarian aid, because the likelihood is extremely high that they would be used by some governments to develop nuclear weapons with which to attack each other and us. OTOH I'm opposed to the US interfering with the independent development of such technologies without significant reason to believe they pose a serious threat to our own safety.

    As regards colonization, I'm in favor of Earth colonizing uninhabited worlds, and see no problem with "population growth," which I see as a false dilemma to begin with. I'm more cautious about colonizing populated worlds. Most of the worlds we've seen are considerably less developed than ours, and I think it's likely that where we go, we would overwhelm whatever existing cultures there were, much as, unfortunately, the American colonists overwhelmed and nearly exterminated the indigenous peoples of this continent. I'm not totally opposed to colonies on Allies' worlds if we're invited, but we'd need to exercise caution wherever a geat disparity of power existed, to make sure it wasn't misused. Of course, that would be equally true in reverse, were we to set up a colony on a world more advanced than ours.

    Given what I've already said about conflicting cultures, opposing interests, the dangers of sharing space travel and other gate-related technology even with other countries on our own planet, it's likely that even after the Stargate goes public, offworld exploration, colonization, etc. will still be largely controlled by the US. Maybe some people feel bad about that. I don't, really. Partly because I'm American. Call it arrogance, call it national pride or patriotism if you're feeling more charitable. I think that the Stargate is in the best possible hands where it is. That's where the chips fell. Until things on Earth change significantly, that's where they should stay. In the meantime, let us share as much as we can and will with our allies.
    Sam & Jack 'Ship...

    Comment


      #17
      Just to let people know I was being sarcastic, and I was awake for 30 hours and on sleeping meds. It helps get people going if I take an extreme view of things, I could have gone extreme left or right but in light of current world politics I decide to go right to heat things up. For example extreme left...

      The world is to much under American influence and under to much political control, as a citizen of the world I believe that we should strive for a Earth that does not need war like nation, I see a time where the people of Earth will relies that they can do better and find a path toward uniting........

      And so forth I bet people would call me a misty eyed idealist instead of "ugly American" if I went left. But I wanted this so I'm glad.

      But I wonder why no one picked up on the fact that I used some of the same words as Daniel in ABSOLUTE POWER 417.
      Last edited by donnie_darko; 31 August 2004, 09:41 AM.
      "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
      of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
      Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
      because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
      of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
      another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

      -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Matt G
        Theory's good but I've heard arguments that solving poverty has to come before any serious exploration of space which bugs me slightly as I don't see why we can't get to work on both projects similtaneously
        Given the situation in the Stargate universe, space exploration is a practical road to solving poverty. Not only does it open new possibilities for trade, but for those poor and disenfranchised people on Earth, it also offers an opportunity to escape poverty through colonization.

        I just got a mental picture of the Stargate with a banner above it that says "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." and a LOOooooooong line of people waiting to step through.
        Sam & Jack 'Ship...

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by aAnubiSs
          If the US tried to take over the world there are quite a few countries with nuclear weapons that might be forced to use them.
          I'd say the US would probably launch a strike pre-emptively; along similar lines to current US foreign policy....the "shoot first, ask questions later" approach. However, there would be no return "second strike". Yet if it did come to a nuclear war, imo, as Colson said "we would deserve it"...
          O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

          Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

          Comment


            #20
            If the USA would wait a few years to develop shield tech and then do a first strike we would have create the first winnable nuclear war scenario. Would also help if we find a way to clean up after a nuclear war. NOT that we would do it.......
            "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
            of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
            Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
            because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
            of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
            another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

            -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

            Comment


              #21
              If the US wanted to take over the world, and decided to pre-emptive use nuclear missiles there wouldn't be that much left to take over really. Alot would be poluted for years to come. Most of Europe would be useless because of Russias nuclear arsenal, but also France.

              And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Matt G
                Theory's good but I've heard arguments that solving poverty has to come before any serious exploration of space which bugs me slightly as I don't see why we can't get to work on both projects similtaneously(add the fact that Earth's serious exploration of space has been my main dream for humanity since I was a kid).

                Now you're making the same arguments to delay serious exploration even in a universe where there are known interstellar bad guys. How long will the Goa'uld, Wraith etc have a free run while we're 'solving our own problems?'.
                Good Point Matt G; i wasn't suggesting that we would give the wraith or goa'uld a "free run"-one cannot hide from tyrany and hope for the best. All I was suggesting that it should be a goal to try to unite people worldwide, to promote understanding and to ensure that the stargate, and for that matter, that any beneficial technology (such as medicine etc, etc) be shared out with everybody......... while at the same time kickin' goa'uld ass... the SGC has made good progress towards that end.


                IMO, if our race is to explore space than we must be equals; one country alone cannot express the views of another....as you pointed out, this could, and probably should, be done at the same time, though I doubt it could work; the US processing the stargate alone would be perceived as a grave threat to the security of various nations.


                And when you think about it, the Asgard and the Ancients managed it so I guess we could...if the writers were to include some type of "Earth Galactic Union" into the series finale imo it would allow the show to end with a positive and progressive "feel" to it.

                Well, thats my 2 cents please feel free to comment on my view..
                O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

                Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by aAnubiSs
                  If the US wanted to take over the world, and decided to pre-emptive use nuclear missiles there wouldn't be that much left to take over really. Alot would be poluted for years to come. Most of Europe would be useless because of Russias nuclear arsenal, but also France.

                  And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.

                  I agree personally I think the SGC should take more "advantage" of the various uninhabited worlds out there; growing food for the third world would be good...
                  O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

                  Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by aAnubiSs
                    And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.
                    You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

                    Now imagine if the US told the starving, opressed masses: We have a Stargate, and we are willing to let you use it. There are planets out there where you can go and grow your own food and not have to worry about anybody taking it away from you, where you and your children can live in relative safety and freedom from opression. We will give you tools and help you build shelter and enough food to last until harvest time. You will have to work hard, but if you want to leave, you can go.

                    P.S. Dictators need not apply.
                    Sam & Jack 'Ship...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Ok, so someone that's imprisoned is also starving?

                      If you are forced to live on your house the rest of your life, but have unlimited food you won't die of starvation that's for sure.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Starfury
                        You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

                        Now imagine if the US told the starving, opressed masses: We have a Stargate, and we are willing to let you use it. There are planets out there where you can go and grow your own food and not have to worry about anybody taking it away from you, where you and your children can live in relative safety and freedom from opression. We will give you tools and help you build shelter and enough food to last until harvest time. You will have to work hard, but if you want to leave, you can go.

                        P.S. Dictators need not apply.

                        Personally, I agree with you on your first point, its a question of allocating those resources properly. Indeed, the world can produce enough food to feed itself (or rather, the people inhabiting it), despite us reaching the limit to which we can grow sufficient havests. However, I'm assuming that your definition of "freedom" must be in accordance with US policy (??); if so I disagree. The US has had a long history in supporting the wrong guy; "their" guy. Saddam Hussein being one example. If I'm wrong, than I'm sorry; your prefectly entitled to your opinion...that's just the way I feel about it. And as for your last point if the US would say that tomorrow (in the show that is) it would open up its Stargate to the world....its standing would be greatly improved imo
                        O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

                        Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I think before we start farm planets we should take a look at what the Aschen did.

                          They did create a multi-world Aschen Confederation, but they did not want to server in this confederation so they let others serve them.

                          They wiped out entire worlds in order to supply food for, I don't think we should go as far as the Aschen but they seem successful.
                          "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
                          of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
                          Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
                          because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
                          of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
                          another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

                          -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

                          Comment


                            #28
                            You misunderstand. What I'm saying is that children aren't starving in Africa because there is not enough food, they're starving because they don't have access to it, because what resources their country has are taken forcefully by those in power.

                            When people are free to work for themselves and keep what they can make, they do not go hungry.
                            Sam & Jack 'Ship...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Yes donnie, but we should try and be equal in the allegiance, atleast when it comes to deciding stuff.

                              And there's nothing stopping us from growing food on an already populated planet, if they agree that is. Otherwise there plenty of planets to choose from.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by donnie_darko
                                ... I don't think we should go as far as the Aschen....

                                I'm glad you do...
                                O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

                                Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

                                Comment

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