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    #31
    [QUOTE=Starfury]You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

    This is correct. We actually have no idea what the carrying capacity of the Earth is. The US is one of several countries where farmers are paid NOT to plant food crops, as a glut would have severe economic ramifications.

    The real issue stopping colonization is the fact that Earth's population is set to decline starting in about 2040 or so. While this may be tough to believe, the Earth faces a population deficeit as the birth rate drops and people live longer, leading to "gray" populations.

    Already this has happened in the developed world - Germany, Russia, Italy, Spain and Japan face rapidly dropping populations while most others are facing slow deline. In the developed world, only the United States has maintained a growing population. Even in the developing world, populations are set to start declining soon.

    The dream of a 1000-world human society seems unlikely, even with interstellar transportation available.

    Mike Turcotte

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      #32
      Originally posted by Starfury
      You misunderstand. What I'm saying is that children aren't starving in Africa because there is not enough food, they're starving because they don't have access to it, because what resources their country has are taken forcefully by those in power.

      When people are free to work for themselves and keep what they can make, they do not go hungry.

      Okay, good point, Sorry I read it wrong..
      O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

      Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

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        #33
        The people in Africa are free to do what they want, but they might be too poor to do anything yes, so in that way they don't have alot of options, but they still have their freedom.

        But yes, many countries spend too much money on the military and such stuff and not enough on education and the welfare of their population. And in many of those countries there are often civil wars and such.

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          #34
          Sad but true..
          O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

          Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

          Comment


            #35
            This is great stuff but let’s remember that all of this must be Stargate related since it is in the General Discussion section, don't want the mods to come and shut us down or move it to Off-Topic Chatter.
            "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
            of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
            Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
            because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
            of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
            another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

            -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

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              #36
              Okidoki, as I said before, I think they should incorporate some of these things into the series finale...it would end the show on high note in imo...what do you guys think? Personally, I'm sick of the whole USAF aspect of the show; no disrespect intented. Stargate Atlantis therefore was a welcome break...it had a fair share of nations working side-by-side; well, at least western, capitialist ones...with the exception of Zimbabwe i think...
              O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

              Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

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                #37
                Having the Finale deal with the start of a Galactic allegiance would be great. Cause that would allow for an early spin-off

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by aAnubiSs
                  The people in Africa are free to do what they want,
                  Manifestly false. The majority of people in Africa (I dare say the world) don't enjoy anything like freedom "to do what they want".

                  but they might be too poor to do anything yes, so in that way they don't have alot of options, but they still have their freedom.
                  A poor man who is allowed to exercise his ingenuity and retain his property will not remain poor for long. The problem in most 3rd world countries is that people are not allowed to own property such as land needed to grow crops and including tools and everything they produce. In order to create wealth people have to have resources--and I'm not talking about a lot, just a little land and a few tools--to start with, and be able to keep the fruits of their efforts, or there's no motivation to produce.

                  But yes, many countries spend too much money on the military and such stuff and not enough on education and the welfare of their population. And in many of those countries there are often civil wars and such.
                  The government would have to give up much of this in order to let people keep what they earn, yes. But it wouldn't actually have to spend much of anything.

                  Not sure what your point was about civil wars, though.

                  Anyway to try to keep this Stargate related, I still like the idea of opening the Stargate to emigration to colony worlds, much like the Americas were during the 14th-19th centuries. It might even give Earth governments incentive to change in order to keep their population from leaving en masse. Competition can be a wonderful thing.

                  Of course, not all the colonies would want to do things "our" way, which could lead to all kinds of interesting situations.
                  Sam & Jack 'Ship...

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                    #39
                    It would be important to get people from all over the world if we colonized something, otherwise it would become like putting all the white ppl on planet 1, all the black ones on planet2. Then we'd start seperating religions and sexual preferences... then the wars would begin.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      And my point about civil wars was that a country that spends more money on the military then their populations welfare often end up in a rebel force or a people riot vs the military. And then we read about Thousands of civilans killed by the military.

                      Israel - Palestina would be such a "war of freedom" since they won't be given their land.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Well, I've read everybody's posts..replies, rebuttals...all of it. And I was right all along...

                        I knew it would give me a fronache!

                        "We'll keep the light on for you."

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by aAnubiSs
                          It would be important to get people from all over the world if we colonized something, otherwise it would become like putting all the white ppl on planet 1, all the black ones on planet2. Then we'd start seperating religions and sexual preferences... then the wars would begin.
                          But what if all those people didn't want to live together? Should we force them? I don't think so. I don't believe in enforced diversity. I believe that diversity is a good thing, but only if it's by choice, otherwise it just creates strife. The only way to avoid cultural conflict is to have a reasonable degree of separation between differing people. Hence the axiom "Good fences make good neighbors" applies equally to neighborhoods and nations.

                          To put it another way, saying that all different kinds of people have to live together in the same society is just another way of saying that everybody has to be the same.

                          That is the problem with the idea of a giant galactic government (or even a One World government on Earth), the only way to make it work (except in a hypothetical world where every single individual is a saint) is to force everybody to live a certain way and believe a certain way, and since ultimately it's impossible to acheive except through tyrrany, which cannot be maintained forever, you wind up with civil war.

                          Wars don't happen because people are different. Wars happen when people try to make everyone the same.

                          In a world (or a galaxy) where there is enough room for all, why not let each man choose to live where and how and with whom he believes best, as long as he doesn't try to force his way of life on everyone else. Let groups of people with common interests band together, and let them choose whom they allow to enter into their society. If some do not want to live in that kind of society, that doesn't necessarily mean the society must change. There is enough room for another community based on their values and to allow both communities thrive and grow to their fullest extent. By all means, let them interact, let them be friendly with one another. Let them trade where it would be mutually beneficial. Let them share whatever elements of their culture and society they chooose. But let them choose.
                          Sam & Jack 'Ship...

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Starfury
                            Wars don't happen because people are different. Wars happen when people try to make everyone the same.
                            That's an... interesting statement.


                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Starfury
                              Given the situation in the Stargate universe, space exploration is a practical road to solving poverty. Not only does it open new possibilities for trade, but for those poor and disenfranchised people on Earth, it also offers an opportunity to escape poverty through colonization.

                              I just got a mental picture of the Stargate with a banner above it that says "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." and a LOOooooooong line of people waiting to step through.
                              Right with you there though I've been shut down when I've offerered similar theories elsewhere(OK, I didn't bring in the Stargate but...). Last time I tried it the reply I got was along the lines of 'If your best solution to an African familiy's poverty was travelling to other planets then they'd be serverely insulted as that sort of thing is inconcievable to them'.

                              In short - we need to find a Stargate!
                              I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Yeah, well it's probably true that if we offered people the chance to go through the Stargate, not many would believe us--at least at first. Plus, it'd be scary. But there would be some eager enough, or desperate enough, to give it a chance. And I think it'd become a sort of snowball effect, then eventually peter off to more of a slow dribble of people coming or going.

                                I wonder if it would make a difference to "3rd world" people if there were offered to colonize a planet already populated by people who originally came from their own ancient culture. That would really be interesting.
                                Sam & Jack 'Ship...

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