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Thread: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

  1. #81
    Lieutenant Colonel rarocks24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jafana
    Have you done any kind of historical research on the effects of expansionism and imperialism? Particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries? Because if you have then I'm sure you would have come across all the bad things that occur because of it. Such as illness and death and destroying native cultures and slavery.
    The same could be said of abandoning the principal as well. When France bailed out of Algeria, millions died. When Britain pulled out of it's African colonies, nothing but brutal communist dictatorships rose. Imperialism shouldn't have ever happened, but countries shouldn't just bail out of it.

  2. #82
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    did you know that australia has some of the largest uranium reserves in the world so we could build in mass nuclear weapons although the likely chance in we wouldnt resort to nuclear war as that would make earth un inhabitable

  3. #83
    Captain walterIsTheMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakebbq
    did you know that australia has some of the largest uranium reserves in the world so we could build in mass nuclear weapons although the likely chance in we wouldnt resort to nuclear war as that would make earth un inhabitable
    Yes but Austrailia does not have weapons capability nor the delivery systems required to launch a nuclear attack. Austrailia would have to significantly increase it's defense budget to make a viable nuclear program.

  4. #84
    Staff Sergeant Setesh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakebbq
    did you know that australia has some of the largest uranium reserves in the world so we could build in mass nuclear weapons although the likely chance in we wouldnt resort to nuclear war as that would make earth un inhabitable
    Please... Americas military spendings are larger than the 9 next biggest military budgets in the world, COMBINED. Atleast according to some magazine I read. Think it was TIME.
    Of course not all of that goes into weapons, but the US is the only power actually equipped to fight an offensive war.

    But on topic. Were the Stargate to be made public, and avalible for use for colonists etc. This is how I would like to see it. This is assuming the Ori will be defeated and there will be no MAYOR badasses out to get us out there.

    The gate should be open to the public, and funded by the international community with a dedicated taskforce to neutralize any military threat coming through the gate. The gate is located inside an bunker, and all incoming cargo or people are screened before the blastdoors are opened.
    However once through the "Gateport" is an normal public place. The gate is dedicated mostly for civilian use, with the govs and military having to book time just like anyone else. Certain popular desinations are being served on a regular schedule. Maybe every day at 17.30 the Gate is open for 25 minutes to Chulak, just as an example. Between every outgoing wormhole there is atleast an 40 minute break, for enscheduled incoming wormholes.
    Any group over 50, or with the backing of a goverement, are able to book a Gatetime.
    Earth's Gateport would serve as an hub for humans all over the galaxy, as people move between colonies. Exotic items can be bought from every planet within the gate network. Scientific expeditions are daily coming and going. Settlers in the thousends stream out in the galaxy to form independent worlds. There can be a christian planet, a muslim planet, a nazi planet and a frelling Disney Planet. With total freedom bad goverements, as well as good and non-existant ones flourish. There is no unity in the galaxy, but a patchwork of competing systems, each vying for dominance. Well, as I see it it's either that or an totalitarian Terran Empire.

    The one who control the Stargate would control the planet in question. Either we would have to leave it up to the individual colonies, which would mean a lot of meanies getting a lot of power, or assert total control of the gatesystem from earth, perhaps the better system in the end. But a wise man once said "Those who sacrifice a little freedom for security deserves neither and will lose both.". Of course there will be conflict, that is the way of man. You can either chose to crush this strife from the beginning, which probably could be upheld for hundreds of years, but in the end the colonies would demand independence, and could a gov really hold the gates then? Remember, all the rebels would have to do was win ONE battle and sever their ties to the Empire. Even with ships avalible it would be hard to maintain this Empire.


    EDIT: Oh, and these are just my ramblings from the top of my head. If you find inconsitancies, don't be too surprised.
    "You have been impregnated, without copulation?"
    "Yes! And I am absolutly terrified! Have any of you ever heard of anything like it?"
    "Well, there's one..."
    "Darth Vader!"
    "Really!? How did that turn out?"

  5. #85
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Chevron Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    hey im not say australia would win im just saying we have lots of uranium that we wouldnt share and that the world would do everything in its power to stop a nuclear war because then we would all die a horrible horrible death un less you build underground bunckers and live their for the next few million years

  6. #86
    Staff Sergeant Setesh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakebbq
    hey im not say australia would win im just saying we have lots of uranium that we wouldnt share and that the world would do everything in its power to stop a nuclear war because then we would all die a horrible horrible death un less you build underground bunckers and live their for the next few million years
    Just having enough uranium isn't the question. Anyone messing with the US would pretty much get their asses whupped, in any scenario. Maybe a union of every other nation of the earth, but hardly anything else.
    Oh, and I am not american, so I'm not speaking out of patriotism or something silly like that.
    "You have been impregnated, without copulation?"
    "Yes! And I am absolutly terrified! Have any of you ever heard of anything like it?"
    "Well, there's one..."
    "Darth Vader!"
    "Really!? How did that turn out?"

  7. #87
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Chevron Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    as i said and i quote "the world would do everything in its power to stop a nuclear war because then we would all die a horrible horrible death un less you build underground bunckers and live their for the next few million years"

  8. #88
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Setesh
    Just having enough uranium isn't the question. Anyone messing with the US would pretty much get their asses whupped, in any scenario. Maybe a union of every other nation of the earth, but hardly anything else.
    Oh, and I am not american, so I'm not speaking out of patriotism or something silly like that.
    LOL, no, you're speaking out of being educated and pragmatic...I respect that. I am American, but I'm not speaking out of some "pull the wool over my eyes, Bush is the greatest " perverted sense of patriotism either. I've been studying International Affairs for almost six years (in undergraduate and now graduade school) so that's what I base my conclusion on.

    If Australia tried to attack the U.S. (despite how much uranium they have ), I doubt we would even respond. We'd just sit back and watch them flounder, wondering if we should even bother. Hell, we'd probably help them rebuild their economy after they destroyed it trying to build enough weapons to match us.

    Bt the way, I'm ethnically Finno-Swedish. Scandinavia kicks ass!

  9. #89
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    you know what is funny the us spent millions to develop a scope that could see around corners the australians put a mirror on the end of thier rifles.
    the us spent millions developing a pen that would work in space the russians use a pencil

  10. #90
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakebbq
    you know what is funny the us spent millions to develop a scope that could see around corners the australians put a mirror on the end of thier rifles.
    the us spent millions developing a pen that would work in space the russians use a pencil
    Yes, and look whose military capabilities outpace the rest of the world by several orders of magnitude, and look who dominates space flight technology.

  11. #91
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    yeh i know but i was just mentioning a few things that the us has wasted money on when they could be spending more on the moral decay of society or feeding hungry wraiths i mean kids in 3rd world countries or something or even giving me money coz they already do spend lots of money on those things.

    but then what do i know i live half way around the world

  12. #92
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakebbq
    but then what do i know i live half way around the world
    I know plenty of educated Australians, so that's no excuse. People used to say the same thing about people from Montana, but I proved them wrong. Don't sell yourself short. If you work hard and go to University, you can get right up here with the rest of us. I have faith in you.

  13. #93
    Second Lieutenant Jakebbq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Tyler
    I know plenty of educated Australians, so that's no excuse. People used to say the same thing about people from Montana, but I proved them wrong. Don't sell yourself short. If you work hard and go to University, you can get right up here with the rest of us. I have faith in you.
    yes that is good advice i will find the force and avenge my father
    i mean yeah i will keep that in mind

  14. #94
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Setesh
    Please... Americas military spendings are larger than the 9 next biggest military budgets in the world, COMBINED. Atleast according to some magazine I read. Think it was TIME.
    Of course not all of that goes into weapons, but the US is the only power actually equipped to fight an offensive war.
    That is true. I think it may be more than that. The U.S. spends more on just military 'R & D' than the U.K. and Germany spend on their entire militaries combined. The U.S. spends roughly 400 Billion dollars a year on defense spending. That is roughly 6% of the U.S. national budget, so relatively cheap. The U.S. GNP is about $13 Trillion, making it the largest economy in the world. The next largest GNP is India, with about $10 Trillion a year. However, given their large population the amount is diluted, so it doesn't mean as much in terms of national wealth.

    But on topic. Were the Stargate to be made public, and avalible for use for colonists etc. This is how I would like to see it. This is assuming the Ori will be defeated and there will be no MAY(J)OR badasses out to get us out there.

    The gate should be open to the public, and funded by the international community with a dedicated taskforce to neutralize any military threat coming through the gate. The gate is located inside an bunker, and all incoming cargo or people are screened before the blastdoors are opened.
    However once through the "Gateport" is an normal public place. The gate is dedicated mostly for civilian use, with the govs and military having to book time just like anyone else. Certain popular desinations are being served on a regular schedule. Maybe every day at 17.30 the Gate is open for 25 minutes to Chulak, just as an example. Between every outgoing wormhole there is atleast an 40 minute break, for enscheduled incoming wormholes.
    Any group over 50, or with the backing of a goverement, are able to book a Gatetime.
    Earth's Gateport would serve as an hub for humans all over the galaxy, as people move between colonies. Exotic items can be bought from every planet within the gate network. Scientific expeditions are daily coming and going. Settlers in the thousends stream out in the galaxy to form independent worlds. There can be a christian planet, a muslim planet, a nazi planet and a frelling Disney Planet. With total freedom bad goverements, as well as good and non-existant ones flourish. There is no unity in the galaxy, but a patchwork of competing systems, each vying for dominance. Well, as I see it it's either that or an totalitarian Terran Empire.
    I agree that the stargate should be made available to the public, at least on a limited basis. I do think the gate should remain under military protection, and observation. It is a potential means of military assault, and should remain suspect because of that possibility. I also think, that during emergencies, it should fall under direct military control. During 'normal' operations, a civilian arm can be in place to organize regular transport times between planets. They could have hover-trains on scheduled runs through the stargates carrying people and cargo. (Why hover-trains? a) as demonstrated by Earth's ships, anti-gravity devices seem to have been figured out somewhat. b) you don't need tracks. c) trains can carry large amounts of people and cargo at a high rate of speed.) The 'Gate-ports' could be built to be setup for high volume transport. If trains were loaded hours in advance, then you could make a massive transport run between worlds in about a minute. The Stargate need not be active for more than 5-10 minutes per world, if everything is ready before hand.

    As to control over said colonies... Well, it seems to me that most colonies (recently made ones, especially) will want to keep contact with Earth for Social, Cultural, Economic, and Military ties. On the social reason, people will still have families and friends back on Earth they will want to keep in contact with. I have no doubt that using the Interstellar communicatons technology that Earth obviously has now, that they will setup comm lines for telephones, TV, Internet, and other things. That obviously also falls under the cultural reasons as well. People may go to other worlds for different reasons, but Earth is the cradle, and as such will always have a special place in people's minds and hearts. As to economic reasons... well that should be obvious too. They might go to another world to take advantage of new resources and lands, but they will still want things they can't get on their own. TV, Movies, Books, Games, specialty items, and many other things that might possibly be wanted. As to the military aspect, well as the old saying goes... there is safety in numbers.

    Also for one thing, who says that all the planets have to follow a strict federal rule? Why not exist only under a military and economic alliance? Politics are about ones interests, and alliances based on those things, will automatically garner political support. Individual planets can rule their own worlds as they see fit. However, as part of a greater alliance they could be subject to certain principles of conduct. They would benefit from the strength and protection an interplanetary government could provide. There is no reason at all such a government would have to be totalitarian. If individual colonies wanted to go their own way, then they could be allowed, but they would no longer have the benefits that come with being under the protection of a greater force.

    The one who control the Stargate would control the planet in question. Either we would have to leave it up to the individual colonies, which would mean a lot of meanies getting a lot of power, or assert total control of the gatesystem from earth, perhaps the better system in the end. But a wise man once said "Those who sacrifice a little freedom for security deserves neither and will lose both.". Of course there will be conflict, that is the way of man. You can either chose to crush this strife from the beginning, which probably could be upheld for hundreds of years, but in the end the colonies would demand independence, and could a gov really hold the gates then? Remember, all the rebels would have to do was win ONE battle and sever their ties to the Empire. Even with ships avalible it would be hard to maintain this Empire.

    EDIT: Oh, and these are just my ramblings from the top of my head. If you find inconsitancies, don't be too surprised.
    Controlling the stargate does NOT give someone automatic power over an entire planet. It gives them greater options concerning resources and travel, but not necessarily control over a planet. Also, I imagine that once the stargate was made public, that the access to interstellar starships would also be immediately demanded as well. Earth would probably increase its starship building exponentially overnight, both on and off-world. The Stargate would not be the only means of getting around the galaxy, just the fastest.

    One thing that would REALLY take the pressure off the stargates in an interstellar economy, would be if Earth could figure out how to build those supergates. A supergate could be placed in each star system of importance with a space station attached to it, that would control the gate itself, for ships that would use it. Ships wouldn't even have to have hyperdrives to use the supergates, (and the supergates wouldn't need singularities to power them, since they wouldn't be going intergalactic) and it would also keep civilian traffic safer because they wouldn't have to make the long transit between worlds, and potentially being jumped by hostile forces.

    There are lots of opportunities, you just have to use your imagination.
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  15. #95
    First Lieutenant lord groovy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    The only problem with supergates is that they need to blow up a planet to make them work.

    We have Carter and McKay so it is not a technical problem but well think about the ethical and political aspect. I am not sure that everyone will be fine with the Tau'ri starting to blow planetary bodies all around.
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  16. #96
    Lieutenant Colonel Ltcolshepjumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by rarocks24 View Post
    The same could be said of abandoning the principal as well. When France bailed out of Algeria, millions died. When Britain pulled out of it's African colonies, nothing but brutal communist dictatorships rose. Imperialism shouldn't have ever happened, but countries shouldn't just bail out of it.
    It's never any better to just pull out of a problem without fixing it. That's the problem the US is in now with the war in Iraq. How do we pull out without causing more disintegration of order? How do we pull out in a way that will leave both the US and Iraq in a better position economically and politically?
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
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    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  17. #97
    Major General
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Strengthen the Iraqi forces.

  18. #98
    Staff Sergeant Dr. Michael Benjamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    I'd have no problem exploring the possibility of the Stargate being made public knowledge. But starting a Galactic Union or United Systems? If you want that I have a few suggestions. Maybe we could start an institution as you suggest. It can be called the United Federation of Planets. We could even initiate a Prime Directive forbidding us from interfering with the development of other civilizations. After that we can scrap the Stargates, build starships and starship production facilities, let everyone carry phasers instead of P90s, beam them down to planets, and travel with warp drives. We could even get really technical and make everyone wear color coded uniforms, and in future Stargate series the guys who wear..oh I don't know..the red uniforms are the ones who always get killed. Oh and we can also name the fleet flagship the Enterprise. Then to top it all off we can close down this website since Stargate will have officially become Star Trek.
    Sorry for the sarcasm but I couldn't help myself. This idea has been done to death with multiple Trek series and films. Stargate works because it is what it is-the underdog Tauri holding their own against galactic bad boys. My skin crawls when I see an SG-1 episode where everyone is riding on a ship and beaming all over and the Stargate is nowhere to be found (Ark of Truth anyone?). I believe Stargate should retain its own identity and stay away from what others have already done. Besides, we've already had our share of Star Trek run ins- Mr. Picardo, Mr. DeLancie (sp.), and others. That is more than enough for my taste. Again, didn't mean to sound like an ass but I just don't think its a good idea.
    "Colonel listen to me. Speech is thought verbalized. Languages are codes. I'm a linguist. I'm a codebreaker. Don't you see? If I can do this I can read their minds."

  19. #99
    First Lieutenant Opener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Michael Benjamin View Post
    I'd have no problem exploring the possibility of the Stargate being made public knowledge. But starting a Galactic Union or United Systems? If you want that I have a few suggestions. Maybe we could start an institution as you suggest. It can be called the United Federation of Planets. We could even initiate a Prime Directive forbidding us from interfering with the development of other civilizations. After that we can scrap the Stargates, build starships and starship production facilities, let everyone carry phasers instead of P90s, beam them down to planets, and travel with warp drives. We could even get really technical and make everyone wear color coded uniforms, and in future Stargate series the guys who wear..oh I don't know..the red uniforms are the ones who always get killed. Oh and we can also name the fleet flagship the Enterprise. Then to top it all off we can close down this website since Stargate will have officially become Star Trek.
    Sorry for the sarcasm but I couldn't help myself. This idea has been done to death with multiple Trek series and films. Stargate works because it is what it is-the underdog Tauri holding their own against galactic bad boys. My skin crawls when I see an SG-1 episode where everyone is riding on a ship and beaming all over and the Stargate is nowhere to be found (Ark of Truth anyone?). I believe Stargate should retain its own identity and stay away from what others have already done. Besides, we've already had our share of Star Trek run ins- Mr. Picardo, Mr. DeLancie (sp.), and others. That is more than enough for my taste. Again, didn't mean to sound like an ass but I just don't think its a good idea.
    It always seemed like a logical step to me, to have ships. I mean, it was established in the movie that they existed in the universe. Surely even someone as powerful as Ra wasn't the only entity to have them.

    Besides, the ship episodes are actually a lot of fun. It's a change from the norm, which is good for any show.
    It's a dangerous business going out your front door.
    --J.R.R. Tolkien

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