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Thread: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

  1. #21
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    If the US wanted to take over the world, and decided to pre-emptive use nuclear missiles there wouldn't be that much left to take over really. Alot would be poluted for years to come. Most of Europe would be useless because of Russias nuclear arsenal, but also France.

    And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.

  2. #22
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G
    Theory's good but I've heard arguments that solving poverty has to come before any serious exploration of space which bugs me slightly as I don't see why we can't get to work on both projects similtaneously(add the fact that Earth's serious exploration of space has been my main dream for humanity since I was a kid).

    Now you're making the same arguments to delay serious exploration even in a universe where there are known interstellar bad guys. How long will the Goa'uld, Wraith etc have a free run while we're 'solving our own problems?'.
    Good Point Matt G; i wasn't suggesting that we would give the wraith or goa'uld a "free run"-one cannot hide from tyrany and hope for the best. All I was suggesting that it should be a goal to try to unite people worldwide, to promote understanding and to ensure that the stargate, and for that matter, that any beneficial technology (such as medicine etc, etc) be shared out with everybody......... while at the same time kickin' goa'uld ass... the SGC has made good progress towards that end.


    IMO, if our race is to explore space than we must be equals; one country alone cannot express the views of another....as you pointed out, this could, and probably should, be done at the same time, though I doubt it could work; the US processing the stargate alone would be perceived as a grave threat to the security of various nations.


    And when you think about it, the Asgard and the Ancients managed it so I guess we could...if the writers were to include some type of "Earth Galactic Union" into the series finale imo it would allow the show to end with a positive and progressive "feel" to it.

    Well, thats my 2 cents please feel free to comment on my view..
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

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  3. #23
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by aAnubiSs
    If the US wanted to take over the world, and decided to pre-emptive use nuclear missiles there wouldn't be that much left to take over really. Alot would be poluted for years to come. Most of Europe would be useless because of Russias nuclear arsenal, but also France.

    And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.

    I agree personally I think the SGC should take more "advantage" of the various uninhabited worlds out there; growing food for the third world would be good...
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by aAnubiSs
    And imagine the amount of food we could grow on uninhabited planets, no more starvation in Africa and other parts of the world.
    You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

    Now imagine if the US told the starving, opressed masses: We have a Stargate, and we are willing to let you use it. There are planets out there where you can go and grow your own food and not have to worry about anybody taking it away from you, where you and your children can live in relative safety and freedom from opression. We will give you tools and help you build shelter and enough food to last until harvest time. You will have to work hard, but if you want to leave, you can go.

    P.S. Dictators need not apply.

  5. #25
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Ok, so someone that's imprisoned is also starving?

    If you are forced to live on your house the rest of your life, but have unlimited food you won't die of starvation that's for sure.

  6. #26
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfury
    You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

    Now imagine if the US told the starving, opressed masses: We have a Stargate, and we are willing to let you use it. There are planets out there where you can go and grow your own food and not have to worry about anybody taking it away from you, where you and your children can live in relative safety and freedom from opression. We will give you tools and help you build shelter and enough food to last until harvest time. You will have to work hard, but if you want to leave, you can go.

    P.S. Dictators need not apply.

    Personally, I agree with you on your first point, its a question of allocating those resources properly. Indeed, the world can produce enough food to feed itself (or rather, the people inhabiting it), despite us reaching the limit to which we can grow sufficient havests. However, I'm assuming that your definition of "freedom" must be in accordance with US policy (??); if so I disagree. The US has had a long history in supporting the wrong guy; "their" guy. Saddam Hussein being one example. If I'm wrong, than I'm sorry; your prefectly entitled to your opinion...that's just the way I feel about it. And as for your last point if the US would say that tomorrow (in the show that is) it would open up its Stargate to the world....its standing would be greatly improved imo
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  7. #27
    Chief Master Sergeant donnie_darko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    I think before we start farm planets we should take a look at what the Aschen did.

    They did create a multi-world Aschen Confederation, but they did not want to server in this confederation so they let others serve them.

    They wiped out entire worlds in order to supply food for, I don't think we should go as far as the Aschen but they seem successful.
    "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
    of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
    Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
    because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
    of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
    another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

    -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    You misunderstand. What I'm saying is that children aren't starving in Africa because there is not enough food, they're starving because they don't have access to it, because what resources their country has are taken forcefully by those in power.

    When people are free to work for themselves and keep what they can make, they do not go hungry.

  9. #29
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Yes donnie, but we should try and be equal in the allegiance, atleast when it comes to deciding stuff.

    And there's nothing stopping us from growing food on an already populated planet, if they agree that is. Otherwise there plenty of planets to choose from.

  10. #30
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by donnie_darko
    ... I don't think we should go as far as the Aschen....

    I'm glad you do...
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    [QUOTE=Starfury]You are assuming that the root cause of starvation is lack of resources, which is false. The problem isn't lack of food, it's lack of freedom.

    This is correct. We actually have no idea what the carrying capacity of the Earth is. The US is one of several countries where farmers are paid NOT to plant food crops, as a glut would have severe economic ramifications.

    The real issue stopping colonization is the fact that Earth's population is set to decline starting in about 2040 or so. While this may be tough to believe, the Earth faces a population deficeit as the birth rate drops and people live longer, leading to "gray" populations.

    Already this has happened in the developed world - Germany, Russia, Italy, Spain and Japan face rapidly dropping populations while most others are facing slow deline. In the developed world, only the United States has maintained a growing population. Even in the developing world, populations are set to start declining soon.

    The dream of a 1000-world human society seems unlikely, even with interstellar transportation available.

    Mike Turcotte

  12. #32
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfury
    You misunderstand. What I'm saying is that children aren't starving in Africa because there is not enough food, they're starving because they don't have access to it, because what resources their country has are taken forcefully by those in power.

    When people are free to work for themselves and keep what they can make, they do not go hungry.

    Okay, good point, Sorry I read it wrong..
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  13. #33
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    The people in Africa are free to do what they want, but they might be too poor to do anything yes, so in that way they don't have alot of options, but they still have their freedom.

    But yes, many countries spend too much money on the military and such stuff and not enough on education and the welfare of their population. And in many of those countries there are often civil wars and such.

  14. #34
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Sad but true..
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  15. #35
    Chief Master Sergeant donnie_darko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    This is great stuff but let’s remember that all of this must be Stargate related since it is in the General Discussion section, don't want the mods to come and shut us down or move it to Off-Topic Chatter.
    "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
    of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
    Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
    because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
    of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
    another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

    -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

  16. #36
    Probie power_ranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Okidoki, as I said before, I think they should incorporate some of these things into the series finale...it would end the show on high note in imo...what do you guys think? Personally, I'm sick of the whole USAF aspect of the show; no disrespect intented. Stargate Atlantis therefore was a welcome break...it had a fair share of nations working side-by-side; well, at least western, capitialist ones...with the exception of Zimbabwe i think...
    O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

    Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

  17. #37
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Having the Finale deal with the start of a Galactic allegiance would be great. Cause that would allow for an early spin-off

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by aAnubiSs
    The people in Africa are free to do what they want,
    Manifestly false. The majority of people in Africa (I dare say the world) don't enjoy anything like freedom "to do what they want".

    but they might be too poor to do anything yes, so in that way they don't have alot of options, but they still have their freedom.
    A poor man who is allowed to exercise his ingenuity and retain his property will not remain poor for long. The problem in most 3rd world countries is that people are not allowed to own property such as land needed to grow crops and including tools and everything they produce. In order to create wealth people have to have resources--and I'm not talking about a lot, just a little land and a few tools--to start with, and be able to keep the fruits of their efforts, or there's no motivation to produce.

    But yes, many countries spend too much money on the military and such stuff and not enough on education and the welfare of their population. And in many of those countries there are often civil wars and such.
    The government would have to give up much of this in order to let people keep what they earn, yes. But it wouldn't actually have to spend much of anything.

    Not sure what your point was about civil wars, though.

    Anyway to try to keep this Stargate related, I still like the idea of opening the Stargate to emigration to colony worlds, much like the Americas were during the 14th-19th centuries. It might even give Earth governments incentive to change in order to keep their population from leaving en masse. Competition can be a wonderful thing.

    Of course, not all the colonies would want to do things "our" way, which could lead to all kinds of interesting situations.

  19. #39
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    It would be important to get people from all over the world if we colonized something, otherwise it would become like putting all the white ppl on planet 1, all the black ones on planet2. Then we'd start seperating religions and sexual preferences... then the wars would begin.

  20. #40
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

    And my point about civil wars was that a country that spends more money on the military then their populations welfare often end up in a rebel force or a people riot vs the military. And then we read about Thousands of civilans killed by the military.

    Israel - Palestina would be such a "war of freedom" since they won't be given their land.

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