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Torchwood- Owen Harper & his actions (spoilers)

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    #31
    Originally posted by mappalazarou View Post
    After watching the Torchwood DE-Classified afterwards, it appears that more of Owen's past will be revealed. Personally I think that he's from either another planet, dimension and time.
    I'm guessing he's been struck off. But it's not much more than a guess.
    scarimor

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      #32
      Originally posted by uknesvuinng View Post
      That could very well be intentional. If it's some scifi-looking device, it's easy to compartmentalize and not be shaken by it. However, slipping her chemicals is something that could easily happen in reality (though probably not with the effect portrayed on the show) and it sticks with you a bit, giving you things to think about.
      I have to admit that to be honest, after seeing three episodes of the show (not the interviews/wikipedia articles) I don't believe there is that much depth to it. It would be nice to think everything is intentional, but like the whole Owen thing there slightly to much plot point hitting, and aiming for the fun aspect, IMO.
      Which is a shame.

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        #33
        Originally posted by smurf View Post
        I have to admit that to be honest, after seeing three episodes of the show (not the interviews/wikipedia articles) I don't believe there is that much depth to it. It would be nice to think everything is intentional, but like the whole Owen thing there slightly to much plot point hitting, and aiming for the fun aspect, IMO.
        Which is a shame.
        Let me live in my delusions!!!

        It's very possible that it's not that involved, but I'm going to hold out hope for now that it is. At the very least, I found something meaningful where there was no meaning, and it gave me something to think about. Good scifi should give you something to think about.
        Cogito ergo dubito.

        "How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini

        An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg

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          #34
          Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
          Besides, the guy wasn't exactly Brad Pitt either was he?
          Um, what? I really don't understand what that has to do with anything.

          Owen did intend to at least take the female home so what do people think he was going to do with her? I know sit up all night talking women's rights. We all know what he was after and if the boyfriend showing up put an end to it then fine, but it still does not make Owen's intentions any more honorable where the female was concerned.

          I guess for me the question is, would the women have gone with Owen if the spray wasn't used? Seems she didn't even want to give him the time of day (with or without knowing she already had a bf) it seemed clear to me; but you know everyone is entitled to see something different.

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            #35
            Originally posted by uknesvuinng View Post
            Let me live in my delusions!!!

            It's very possible that it's not that involved, but I'm going to hold out hope for now that it is. At the very least, I found something meaningful where there was no meaning, and it gave me something to think about. Good scifi should give you something to think about.

            Hey, I think Supernatural is a post-ironic take on road movies and teen horror. Well, that's my excuse.
            I'd tweak your last sentence to "Good television should give you something to think about". I think that one of the most harmful things for many shows is to be treated as just scifi, something separate from the rest. Something I think, from the reviews I've read, Torchwood has suffered a little from.

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              #36
              Originally posted by smurf View Post

              Hey, I think Supernatural is a post-ironic take on road movies and teen horror. Well, that's my excuse.
              I'd tweak your last sentence to "Good television should give you something to think about". I think that one of the most harmful things for many shows is to be treated as just scifi, something separate from the rest. Something I think, from the reviews I've read, Torchwood has suffered a little from.
              Well, not all TV exists to give someone something to think about. However, I think scifi specifically should, hence the distinction. Being science fiction shouldn't make it somehow not a TV show.
              Cogito ergo dubito.

              "How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini

              An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg

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                #37
                Originally posted by uknesvuinng View Post
                Well, not all TV exists to give someone something to think about. However, I think scifi specifically should, hence the distinction. Being science fiction shouldn't make it somehow not a TV show.
                But good television should.
                Unfortunately I do see a lot of "fun" being aimed for in sci-fi. I think making a specific distinction for sci-fi is not helping the genre's mainstream perception. To me good sci-fi is good television first and foremost, just saying a show is good sci-fi is, to me anyway, saying "well, I know it's not proper tv".

                But this is off topic. So, as fascinating the topic of mainstream perception of sci-fi is, I shall desist.

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                  #38
                  So, on topic: We can all agree at the least that Owen is a scumwad.
                  Cogito ergo dubito.

                  "How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini

                  An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg

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                    #39
                    Yep, and that Jack uses dubious chemicals as well.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by uknesvuinng View Post
                      So, on topic: We can all agree at the least that Owen is a scumwad.
                      Originally posted by smurf View Post
                      Yep, and that Jack uses dubious chemicals as well.
                      I'm waiting for Toshi to turn out to be a junkie now.
                      scarimor

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by scarimor View Post
                        I'm waiting for Toshi to turn out to be a junkie now.
                        Why? What did she do?

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by smurf View Post
                          Why? What did she do?
                          Oh nothing. I didn't mean to imply that she had, I was being a tad facetious But we've not had much about her yet, and the first stuff of note we seem to learn about any of them (exluding Gwen) is that they have a dark secret.

                          ETa: if she does turn out to be one I'll be a tad embarrassed now
                          scarimor

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by scarimor View Post
                            Oh nothing. I didn't mean to imply that she had, I was being a tad facetious But we've not had much about her yet, and the first stuff of note we seem to learn about any of them (exluding Gwen) is that they have a dark secret.

                            ETa: if she does turn out to be one I'll be a tad embarrassed now
                            Maybe we should open a book.
                            Ten on Tosh being a Slayer.

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                              Um, what? I really don't understand what that has to do with anything.

                              Owen did intend to at least take the female home so what do people think he was going to do with her? I know sit up all night talking women's rights. We all know what he was after and if the boyfriend showing up put an end to it then fine, but it still does not make Owen's intentions any more honorable where the female was concerned.
                              Just this week I saw a local student workshop production which dealt with a similar issue on similar lines. The play involved use of the drink-spiking "date-rape" drug at a private party, and used deliberate ambiguity of both the male culprit's motive and the outcome to focus the audience's mind on the ethics involved.

                              Essentially, whether or not the teenaged girl was attracted to the boy was somewhat equivocal; but there were strong indications that even if she were, she would not agree to sex at this time.

                              Then, whether or not sex had actually taken place by the time they woke the next day with the other sleeping party-goers and went their separate ways was not equivocal either. For example, the girl didn't seem upset - but then if something took place she might not have remembered...

                              Much like this Torchwood scene with Owen, the point of revelation was not conventional, (e.g. do we have to see the threesome in a bed to know that they had sex? Do we have to see Owen speeding away alone in the taxi to know that he ran away instead?) It left the audience wondering or interpreting the scene differently depending on what they brought to the performance from their own views and experiences, and therefore debating how far the protagonists were prepared to go of their own accord, to what extent they were undermined, to what extent it mattered, etc.

                              It was interesting to listen to the observations afterwards. Just as with this scene, some people interpreted one way in the moment (they shagged), while others interpreted it the other way in the moment (they didn't), and a third much smaller group were "on the fence" in the moment - i.e. they absorbed the deliberate ambiguity as they watched and were left unsure. The resulting discussions did indeed focus on the rights and wrongs of what was/was not done.

                              I guess for me the question is, would the women have gone with Owen if the spray wasn't used? Seems she didn't even want to give him the time of day (with or without knowing she already had a bf) it seemed clear to me; but you know everyone is entitled to see something different.
                              Indeed we are. I've never got why a few people think otherwise. And where a scene is deliberately left open, that entitlement is implicit, surely? It goes without saying - or at least it should.
                              Last edited by scarimor; 22 February 2007, 07:10 AM.
                              scarimor

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