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    The Ancients: An Evolutionary Perspective (possible spoilers for Season 6 and SGA)

    The purpose of this thread is to open up a discussion about the Ancient-Human-Earth debate. All views are welcome.

    My theory:
    Many of you believe/think that the Ancients are not really human and evolved on another planet, perhaps even in a different Galaxy. I disagree with both assertions and believe the following to be true based on basic principles of evolutionary biology (not that I'm an expert in this area, but have done enough research and am studying it in college):

    1) The Ancients evolved on Earth millions of years ago, but after the fall of the dinosaurs. Don't ask me exact dates, but this is possible given the times. We're talking maybe 70-100 million years ago maybe, but not sure exactly.

    2) The Ancients developed and progressed at an incredible rate and finally invented FTL travel, found naquadah, and set up the gate network. You know the rest - blah, blah, blah.

    3) The Ancients are human beings in every way; the only difference between an Ancient human and a modern day human (Tau'ri, Tollan, Aschen, whatever) is that the Ancients had greater mental abilities and some biochemical and neurotransmitters were different (see "Frozen" in Season 6). Dr. Frasier said that Ayiana was human in almost every way except for some neurotransmitters and biochemical differences, other than that, she was just as human as any one of us.

    WHY THE ANCIENTS HAD TO HAVE EVOLVED ON EARTH:
    If you subscribe to the evolutionary model of human existence, you accept the basic principle that lower life progresses, through the process of natural selection (survival of the fittest), adaptation, and mutation, into more advanced life. All life on Earth "fits" together into a common pattern and form. Fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals all have similar organ systems, skeletal systems, blood, circulatory systems, and feeding patterns. Some animals have 2 and 3 chambered hearts, while others have 4 chambered hearts. The differences can SEEM vast, but when you think about it, many animals have more in common than not.

    Parallel evolution on a different planet is quite a leap. It's possible that the Ancients evolved on a different planet and came to Earth, but if that were true, what would that mean? That would mean that we, as the descendants of the Ancients, would be totally unlike any other Earth animal. In other words, structurally or biochemically, we would be vastly different from dogs, cats, bears, birds, cows, etc. But we're not. Your dog and cat have the same basic blood as you: it's a red, iron-based blood with hemoglobin carrying red blood cells and infection fighting white blood cells. You have two kidneys, that produce uric-acid based waste, so does your cat -- so does a cow, so does the deer in your backyard, the bird in the tree behind your house, and the rat swimming in the sewers underground.

    Earth-based biology has commonality. All vertebrates on Earth, for example, share common morphological and structural elements. We all have thick, protective skulls; we all have a spinal column with (cervical, thoracic, lumbar, and sacral vertebrae -- some have tails, while humans have vestigial tails (coccyx); we all have a shoulder and pelvic girdle that connects our limbs; and we all have similar limbs. In fish, the limbs are fins; in birds they are wings; in whales and seals they are flippers; in snakes they are atrophied and very small, but still there. Your hand is the equivalent of a fish's fin and a bird's wing.

    These traits are common. If you evolved on a different planet, nature might favor a bipedal form that is functionally superior over other forms, but there would be evolutionary differences. For example, the number of ribs, the structure of the backbone and vertebrae, the arrangement of metacarpal and metatarsal bones, the arrangement of the jaws and sutures of the skull, etc.

    If you evolved on another planet, your blood might be copper based or aluminum based. You might require more nitrogen than oxygen, or you might be able to process more carbon dioxide/monoxide. Your biochemistry would be completely different. In short, if the Ancients evolved on Planet X and only came to Earth to colonize, they would be different in some way from all other Earth life.

    In the SG universe, the humans found on other worlds are probably different from native animals. Remember in the Stargate movie where Daniel is eating that weird animal? He says it tastes like chicken? Or that weird buffalo thing that he fed chocolate too? Those animals are clearly not animals found on Earth. I mean, they seemed mammalian, but they were alien animals. If you dissected them, I would be that you would see a different anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry.

    POSSIBLE EXCEPTIONS:
    The ancients were smart dudes, so it's possible that they transplanted animals native to their homeworld to Earth, but this would be a big Noah's Ark kinda deal. It's also possible that they altered the life on Earth to accomodate their biology.

    In any case, I think the Ancients are advanced Humans with superior abilities. I think they evolved on Earth, left the Earth, and came back to the Earth. Their descendants became modern humans, some who possess the gene of the Ancients tech, while others don't.

    That's my long-winded theory. Do you guys still think I'm wrong?

    #2
    There are several possibilities around the evolution of the Ancients and Humans:

    1) Ancients and Humans are different species who have no shared evolutionary history.

    This is unlikely, from all the information gather in the series, Ancients and Humans share evolutionary paths.

    2) Ancients and Humans have a parallel evolutionary history, the Ancients evolved on Earth first and we recently evolved. (Fraser hypothesis)

    The Ancients evolving on Earth is possible but far-fetched, because we don't see them in the fossil record. While the records are far from complete for us to overlook the development of the first Humanoid species on Earth is not believable. Some fossil record of the Ancients evolution must exist on Earth if they
    evolved here, we only see our development. It may be that we just have not found them yet but it is highly unlikely. Time will only tell if we find evidence of Ancient development on Earth.

    The chance that a repeat of evolution happing out of the question. Evolution has repeated itself in the past in small parts but we have not seen a repeat
    species come into being. We have seen different species develop the same abilities who do not share the same evolutionary path but the chances that so many
    repeat abilities happing to make us almost the same species is hard to believe.

    3) Ancients and Humans have a parallel evolutionary history, which the Ancients evolved on Earth first and we a recent artificial evolution.

    For the Ancients to recreate their species is possible. We have seen that the Ancients have great genetic engineering technology. They have seeded a whole
    galaxies with humans for one, directing and controlling the evolution of a species is very possible for them.

    4) Ancients evolved first on some other planet/Earth and we are a recent artificial/natural development, they found us and changed themselves to look like
    us.

    This is a possibility that most people have not considered, it may be that that the Ancients did not look like us at all in their fist evolutionally history.
    It could be that they evolved on Earth or another planet not as Humans and then through genetic engineering and artificial evolution of Humans made us look
    exactly alike. This seems to fit with the timeline and what we know about the Ancients more than anything else does.

    Most possible theory:

    An intelligent species arose +30 million years ago, they began experiments with their evolution and exploring and colonizing the galaxy. They came to Earth
    or started to experiments with life on Earth to such a degree that Humans came into existence and the final physical form of the Ancients was reached. Humans
    and Ancients only differing with the Ancients not giving Humans their complete abilities of mind and body control (We are the basic model and the Ancients
    are the deluxe), After exploring this galaxy, setting up the gate network, and meeting other advance races they traveled to another galaxys to promote their
    Human/Ancient species.

    In the Pegasus galaxy, they experimented more with their evolution and found a way to evolve to non-physical existence. They meet the Wraith and begin their
    centuries long war. While in the Milky-way galaxy, a plague sweeps through the galaxy, maybe due to some part with their genetic engineering or maybe an
    attack by another species, all we know it nearly wipes out the Ancients/Humans only Earth survives the plague. A few using the knowledge gathered by the
    Pegasus Ancients survive by ascending, the Pegasus Ancients loosing the Wraith war also decide to ascend, they rest abandon Atlantis to come back to Earth, they set up archives so they will not be forgotten and to pass down their knowledge to their Human decedents.

    Ra then finds Earth +10,000 years ago and begins to reseed the galaxy with humans.


    Those who wish to learn more about evolution should read. The Babel book is more political than the first so don't read it if you don't want to.
    The Ghost book is what it is, a updated version of Darwin, read it!

    Darwin's Ghost: The Origin of Species Updated by Steve Jones
    Tower of Babel: The Evidence against the New Creationism by Robert T. Pennock

    They will give you a good understanding of evolution.
    "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
    of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
    Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
    because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
    of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
    another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

    -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

    Comment


      #3
      I'm sure we're all in agreement that the writers haven't sorted this important issue out but remember

      Originally posted by donnie_darko
      Time will only tell if we find evidence of Ancient development on Earth. .
      Its only a tv show
      Jackson: Hathor was the Egyptian goddess of fertility, inebriety, and music.
      O'Neill: Sex, drugs, and rock and roll?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by donnie_darko
        There are several possibilities around the evolution of the Ancients and Humans:

        1) Ancients and Humans are different species who have no shared evolutionary history.

        This is unlikely, from all the information gather in the series, Ancients and Humans share evolutionary paths.

        2) Ancients and Humans have a parallel evolutionary history, the Ancients evolved on Earth first and we recently evolved. (Fraser hypothesis)

        The Ancients evolving on Earth is possible but far-fetched, because we don't see them in the fossil record. While the records are far from complete for us to overlook the development of the first Humanoid species on Earth is not believable. Some fossil record of the Ancients evolution must exist on Earth if they
        evolved here, we only see our development. It may be that we just have not found them yet but it is highly unlikely. Time will only tell if we find evidence of Ancient development on Earth.

        The chance that a repeat of evolution happing out of the question. Evolution has repeated itself in the past in small parts but we have not seen a repeat
        species come into being. We have seen different species develop the same abilities who do not share the same evolutionary path but the chances that so many
        repeat abilities happing to make us almost the same species is hard to believe.

        3) Ancients and Humans have a parallel evolutionary history, which the Ancients evolved on Earth first and we a recent artificial evolution.

        For the Ancients to recreate their species is possible. We have seen that the Ancients have great genetic engineering technology. They have seeded a whole
        galaxies with humans for one, directing and controlling the evolution of a species is very possible for them.

        4) Ancients evolved first on some other planet/Earth and we are a recent artificial/natural development, they found us and changed themselves to look like
        us.

        This is a possibility that most people have not considered, it may be that that the Ancients did not look like us at all in their fist evolutionally history.
        It could be that they evolved on Earth or another planet not as Humans and then through genetic engineering and artificial evolution of Humans made us look
        exactly alike. This seems to fit with the timeline and what we know about the Ancients more than anything else does.

        Most possible theory:

        An intelligent species arose +30 million years ago, they began experiments with their evolution and exploring and colonizing the galaxy. They came to Earth
        or started to experiments with life on Earth to such a degree that Humans came into existence and the final physical form of the Ancients was reached. Humans
        and Ancients only differing with the Ancients not giving Humans their complete abilities of mind and body control (We are the basic model and the Ancients
        are the deluxe), After exploring this galaxy, setting up the gate network, and meeting other advance races they traveled to another galaxys to promote their
        Human/Ancient species.

        In the Pegasus galaxy, they experimented more with their evolution and found a way to evolve to non-physical existence. They meet the Wraith and begin their
        centuries long war. While in the Milky-way galaxy, a plague sweeps through the galaxy, maybe due to some part with their genetic engineering or maybe an
        attack by another species, all we know it nearly wipes out the Ancients/Humans only Earth survives the plague. A few using the knowledge gathered by the
        Pegasus Ancients survive by ascending, the Pegasus Ancients loosing the Wraith war also decide to ascend, they rest abandon Atlantis to come back to Earth, they set up archives so they will not be forgotten and to pass down their knowledge to their Human decedents.

        Ra then finds Earth +10,000 years ago and begins to reseed the galaxy with humans.


        Those who wish to learn more about evolution should read. The Babel book is more political than the first so don't read it if you don't want to.
        The Ghost book is what it is, a updated version of Darwin, read it!

        Darwin's Ghost: The Origin of Species Updated by Steve Jones
        Tower of Babel: The Evidence against the New Creationism by Robert T. Pennock

        They will give you a good understanding of evolution.
        In the Star Trek universe, Vulcans and humans and Humans and Klingons can intermix without difficulty (Spock, Balana Torrez), but in reality, this is purely ridiculous. A Vulcan and a human are totally incompatible: green, copper-based blood and red, iron-based blood, etc. There is no way these two species could mix successfully without artificial assistance. Even with artitificial assistance, the offspring would most likely end up sickly. Also, like in mixed racial human crossings, where you have a black parent and a white parent, one will be more dominant.

        If the Ancients evolved as an alien life form and came to Earth, why would they choose to abandon their original form to be more like a primitive terrestrial form? Remember, at the point in time that they came to Earth, assuming they hadn't evolved here, then there would be no humans, but only hominids. Why would a vastly superior life form give up its form to become more like a primitive life form? If the Ancients were a dying race, like the Asgard are now, then with their genetic abilities, they would be able to fix the problem.

        Perhaps the fix involved becoming human-like, but that still doesn't answer the question why Earth and why not just stay as they are? If you're advanced enough to build stargates, FTL ships, and flying cities, why would you choose to leave a successful biological form for another one?

        If you think about it, we humans are quite weak; we do not have fangs or claws, we don't have night vision or super hearing. He are susceptible to a ton of diseases. We have poor healing and regenerative abilities. We can be easily injured. Our bones are fragile. We don't live all that long naturally. We can't jump very high, we're not that strong, and we tire fast. There are so many lifeforms on Earth that are physically superior to us in so many ways.

        Why would an advanced race purposefully create such a weak form as teh human form? The Asgard evolved into their degraded form; they didn't purposefully create the weaker form.

        Thus, I don't think the ancients would come to Earth and change their form in favor of the human form.

        However, it is possible that they did create a second evolution and we are it; that is entirely possible, although I sort of think this is not the case despite what Frasier theorized. Frasier was only a medical doctor, not a biologist or anthropologist; she wouldn't be an expert in this area. However, she certainly would know a human from a non-human, and she said Ayiana was human with some minor differences.

        If they evolved on Earth, where are the fossil records? If you're an archaeologist and you dig up some ruins and find human skeletons, are you going to know whether they are Ancients or humans? Nope. If you do carbon dating and find they are millions of years old, yes...but the thing is, unless soemthing was extraordinary about the site, no one would even think to do dating on the bones because they would assume they were "human" remains. What about the technology? Hard to say, but it's a fair bet that there are Ancient ruins and tech buried on Earth in the Stargate universe and we have either not found it or not recognized it for what it is.

        Also, the parts of the world where the Ancients lived might now be underwater, frozen under ice, or buried under sand. The Earth has changed a great deal over millions of years. Another thing to consider: the Goa'uld were here for many thousands of years, right? While they were here, they probably came across some of the Ancient technology, so they may have taken it away to study it, removed it so we won't see technology that is equal to or more advanced than theirs (after all, if the Goa'uld are gods, then who created technology that is more powerful than that of the gods?), or destroyed it since it was no longer working.

        We know the Goa'uld were here on Earth for a long time, but even Daniel acknowledged several times that not much of their technology was discovered. I mean Osiris' ship was buried in a pyramid for thousands of years and no one discovered it, Hathor's sarcophagus was buried in Central America for 2 thousand years and it wasn't discovered, Telchak's healing device was found in Season 7 in SOuth America, but had been there (and it was Ancient tech) for thousands of years. Of course the Antarctic Outpost was there since Atlantis was on Earth and it was only recently discovered. The Giza gate wasn't found until 1928 after being buried thousands of years ago.

        You see my point? Time and geographic changes cause erosion, decay,and displacement. Left over tech and human remains breakdown and get buried and lost. There is no reason to assume we would find it. If some of it was found, would we even know what it is? Plus, the ANcients may have taken their ships and tech with them when they left Earth.

        Comment


          #5
          just another point about fossil records, didn't the goa`uld occupy earth to mine for naquda(spl?) and when it was all mined out the uprising happened and they left earth?

          so if a huge amount of the naquda was taken maybe the fossils were destroyed by the mining, the goa'uld wouldn't care about preserving fossils they just want the rock.

          Comment


            #6
            Nah I think Teal'c said that naq is not "native" to our solar system; that's probably why the goa'uld had left us guys alone after the gate was buried...we had no naq and humans were already transplanted to other parts of the galaxy
            Jackson: Hathor was the Egyptian goddess of fertility, inebriety, and music.
            O'Neill: Sex, drugs, and rock and roll?

            Comment


              #7
              //based on basic principles of evolutionary biology (not that I'm an expert in this area, but have done enough research and am studying it in college)//

              actually this IS what I'm studying in college, so here goes...

              //The Ancients evolved on Earth millions of years ago, but after the fall of the dinosaurs. Don't ask me exact dates, but this is possible given the times. We're talking maybe 70-100 million years ago maybe, but not sure exactly.//

              don't think so...I don't think our fossil record, especially around that time, is so bad that we'd miss this. (can't recall what journal this article was in, but talked the professor who did research on the fossil record before and after the dinosaur extinction....suffice it to say, LOTS of fossils). Not to mention that at that point, the only mammals around were rat like, not anywhere near what an Ancient would be


              //If you subscribe to the evolutionary model of human existence, you accept the basic principle that lower life progresses, through the process of natural selection (survival of the fittest), adaptation, and mutation, into more advanced life. //

              actually, thats a misconception of the evolutionary theory; it implies that evolution has direction or a final step, which it doesn't. Natural selection doesn't lead to 'more advanced lifeforms' it results in the evolution of lifeforms more suited to their environments...or those organisms become extinct.

              //All life on Earth "fits" together into a common pattern and form. //

              ok, yes due to coevoltion over time and common ancestors (a long time ago)

              //The differences can SEEM vast, but when you think about it, many animals have more in common than not.//

              Not genetically. Even chimpanzees and bonobos (BOTH of which are our closest related species contrary to popular belief...its a cladistics thing, if anyone wants I'll try and explain but its hard without looking at a phylogenetic tree) anyhow, chimps don't necessarily share 99% of our genes; that figure is very controversial...and thats one of the closest related species.

              The thing is, with evolution, organisms can share traits because they have a common ancestor (which had that trait) or due to convergent evolution (similar solution to the same problem...ie: bats and birds both have wings, but not due to a common ancestor). For convergent evolution the biochemical pathways and genetics are thought to differ since the trait in question evolved twice. In other words, if humans and Ancients evolved independently of one another they might look alike (although the odds are astronomical...think of the differences between bats and birds), but they'd be different biochemically and genetically...more different then they are according to Fraiser. I'll come back to this at the end, since I have a theory...

              //Parallel evolution on a different planet is quite a leap. ...
              Earth-based biology has commonality. If you evolved on another planet, your blood might be copper based or aluminum based. You might require more nitrogen than oxygen, or you might be able to process more carbon dioxide/monoxide. Your biochemistry would be completely different. In short, if the Ancients evolved on Planet X and only came to Earth to colonize, they would be different in some way from all other Earth life.//

              we really don't know though, thats the problem. However, life as we know it is based on the special properties of carbon (it has four valence electrons so it can have four chemical bonds). There are other elements such as sulfur with this property, but they are heavier and are bigger (have more electron shells so bonds are weaker cause they're further apart). Carbon dioxide, which is important in daily life and the evolution of life is very stable and formed maturally. Sulfur dioxide is unstable and IIRC has to be made in the lab to get any useful amounts. I tend to agree with the idea though, as I don't believe that the Ancients could possibly be the result of convergent evolution ANYWHERE


              //Their descendants became modern humans, some who possess the gene of the Ancients tech, while others don't.//

              ok, heres where my theory comes in: I don't think we're descended from the Ancients, I think they're descended from us. I think that sometime in the future, a group of humans (by then advanced to the point of being ANcients) will end up going back in time. They end up doing all the stuff the Ancients did, as they always were supposed to (thus protecting the timeline). Don't ask me how or why...ask Carter...I'm no physicist. This solves the whole evolution problem nicely; the Ancients evolved from us in the future not millions of years ago when they couldn't possibly have done so. Thats why we're so similar and why we're finding evidence of them so long ago. What do you think?


              "I think that, to some degree, all of us are fractured souls. Cut in half. And we wander through life looking for the rest of ourselves. And sometimes we're fortunate enough to meet someone who possesses, in themselves, the part of ourselves that we've been missing. We may not realize it on a conscious level, but definitely on a subconscious level. We see in someone else... something of ourselves. Thats why sometimes you meet someone and you just immediately feel comfortable with them. You feel like you've known them all your life. The reason is that they're a part of you, and you're a part of them. You're soul mates. you... fit. And once you've fit together, nothing can pull you apart unless you let go."
              ~Imzadi
              describes Sam and Jack pretty well to me!


              <dancing and chanting in my ceremonial BDUs>
              Screw the regs! DOWN with ! He's no threat to O'Neill! Sam and Jack FOREVER!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by hail_jack
                I'm sure we're all in agreement that the writers haven't sorted this important issue out but remember



                Its only a tv show
                ONLY a tv show????
                no! it can't be!

                Comment


                  #9
                  //it's only a tv show//

                  waiting for the point


                  "I think that, to some degree, all of us are fractured souls. Cut in half. And we wander through life looking for the rest of ourselves. And sometimes we're fortunate enough to meet someone who possesses, in themselves, the part of ourselves that we've been missing. We may not realize it on a conscious level, but definitely on a subconscious level. We see in someone else... something of ourselves. Thats why sometimes you meet someone and you just immediately feel comfortable with them. You feel like you've known them all your life. The reason is that they're a part of you, and you're a part of them. You're soul mates. you... fit. And once you've fit together, nothing can pull you apart unless you let go."
                  ~Imzadi
                  describes Sam and Jack pretty well to me!


                  <dancing and chanting in my ceremonial BDUs>
                  Screw the regs! DOWN with ! He's no threat to O'Neill! Sam and Jack FOREVER!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It was around 6:00 in the morning when I finished writing a response to LordAnubis, I was typing and typing for a while in Notepad addressing the points made and countering the arguments. When I was finished I realized that I had written 8 pages worth of response, this is when I knew that I had to stop and go to sleep.

                    So just quick responses from now on.

                    We have not seen the physical form of an Ancients of +30 million years ago only one of +3 million years ago and one of +10,000 years ago. So we are free to use our imagination.

                    1) The mixing of two different species doesn’t happen often, when species try to hybrid most of the time the offspring are sterile. So Ancient and Human are probably the same species.

                    2) They came to Earth and used the whole planet as a lab; they then took their findings and used it to create their final physical form. The Ancients might have been very weak physically; even weaker than us the only thing giving them an advantage was their intelligence. Humans are a compromise between strength/intelligence.

                    3) The Asgard did not evolve into their degraded form; they created it by doing some short sided genetic engenerring and bad cloning. And the Asgard have not found a solution to their problem, they are still a dying race.

                    4) Why don't we see them in Earth's past, like I said the fossil record is incomplete, they might be there we just have not found them yet. My exact words "It may be that we just have not found them yet but it is highly unlikely. Time will only tell if we find evidence of Ancient development on Earth."
                    "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
                    of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
                    Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
                    because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
                    of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
                    another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

                    -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

                    Comment


                      #11
                      //1) The mixing of two different species doesn’t happen often, when species try to hybrid most of the time the offspring are sterile. So Ancient and Human are probably the same species.//

                      actually, it happens more often then you'd think...and the hybrids are sometimes not sterile and seem to do just fine. Just look at baboons and macaques (each has several species that seem to interbreed whenever they encounter the others). Hybrids in baboons can mate successfully. Actually, theres a lot of controversy surronding classification within these groups because of this.


                      "I think that, to some degree, all of us are fractured souls. Cut in half. And we wander through life looking for the rest of ourselves. And sometimes we're fortunate enough to meet someone who possesses, in themselves, the part of ourselves that we've been missing. We may not realize it on a conscious level, but definitely on a subconscious level. We see in someone else... something of ourselves. Thats why sometimes you meet someone and you just immediately feel comfortable with them. You feel like you've known them all your life. The reason is that they're a part of you, and you're a part of them. You're soul mates. you... fit. And once you've fit together, nothing can pull you apart unless you let go."
                      ~Imzadi
                      describes Sam and Jack pretty well to me!


                      <dancing and chanting in my ceremonial BDUs>
                      Screw the regs! DOWN with ! He's no threat to O'Neill! Sam and Jack FOREVER!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Different types and variation don't count as a separate species.
                        "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
                        of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
                        Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
                        because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
                        of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
                        another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

                        -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by LordAnubis
                          In the Star Trek universe, Vulcans and humans and Humans and Klingons can intermix without difficulty (Spock, Balana Torrez), but in reality, this is purely ridiculous. A Vulcan and a human are totally incompatible: green, copper-based blood and red, iron-based blood, etc. There is no way these two species could mix successfully without artificial assistance. Even with artitificial assistance, the offspring would most likely end up sickly. Also, like in mixed racial human crossings, where you have a black parent and a white parent, one will be more dominant.
                          .
                          Minor quibble. In a recent enterprise episode named E squared where they encounter a time displaced Enterprise theyre are shocked to find the captain is a human/vulcan hybrid and its said that it cant occur naturally. The crux is that the doctor had to creat a new medical technology to do it.
                          "Everything done in weakness fails." ~Nietzsche

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thats Star Trek canon not Stargate: SG1 canon.
                            "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
                            of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
                            Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
                            because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
                            of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
                            another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

                            -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              //ok, heres where my theory comes in: I don't think we're descended from the Ancients, I think they're descended from us. I think that sometime in the future, a group of humans (by then advanced to the point of being ANcients) will end up going back in time. They end up doing all the stuff the Ancients did, as they always were supposed to (thus protecting the timeline). Don't ask me how or why...ask Carter...I'm no physicist. This solves the whole evolution problem nicely; the Ancients evolved from us in the future not millions of years ago when they couldn't possibly have done so. Thats why we're so similar and why we're finding evidence of them so long ago. What do you think?//

                              Good theory, but keep in mind- The traditional ideas of time travel are almost certainly impossible. The grandfather paradox precludes them all. The best explanation I have heard for time travel was given in Michael Crichton's novel Timeline. Quantom Theory suggests the existence of an infinite number of alternate realities, as seen in two early episodes of SG1. According to Crichton, because there are so many realities, ever moment of time is in fact happening simultanesously in different realities. By this I mean that in our reality it is currently the year 2004 AD, and there is no real SGC. In an alternate reality, it is also 2004 AD, and there IS an SGC. In yet another reality, happening right now as I type this, it is in fact the year 4000 BC. And another where it is 1776 AD. Going back and forth through time in one's own reality is impossible, but one can travel to an alternate reality where the past or future is happening right now. Of course, one can never be sure whether any particular future will ever actually come to pass in our own reality. So in regard to the Ancients, it is possible that they came from THEIR Earth in, oh say, 4000 AD, to OUR Earth in the distant past. That is why there is no fossil record.

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