Next class of Earth starship ,smaller or bigger than 304?and "Nightwalkers" ship

[comperius]

Well my idea is based on different already seen scenarios. ok, there are some tweaks and stuff but, it's a good idea.

side weapons platform & co from replicator medium sized battleship (seen in Atlantis, season 4, episode 2 and 10),
hanger in center of the ship, with entry point on the bottom from Travellers ship (seen in Atlantis, season 4, episode 5)

and now, more I think about it this design could also be used not only for 304 type B, but also for smaller ship.

Many of you already know that when I talk about smaller ship I mean ship with 50 people crew, with weapons and shields that match the ones on 304.

@DF

Regarding the Hanger I wanted just to say that we dont need 2 hangers and that making one hanger in center of the ship, inside the main body of the ship is enough, so we can have or 4 fighters (upgraded 302's) or 1 bigger ship inside (SGU shuttle size?). Because it has no sense of having so much hanger space for patrol vessel.

Regarding side weapons maybe we could cheat little bit and copy the weapons position system from Destiny. That ship has cannons everywhere . We could install railgun substitute systems in that style. But we still need some powerfull side weapons, so we can fight stronger or multiple weaker enemies at the same time.

[Daryl Froggy]

Hm. some of what you said there didn't entirely click in my mind but overall I agree.

While you obviously like the idea of completely upgrading to some form of energy pulse guns for point defense I just like EM guns for their versatility in use against both space and planetary targets. Most plasma weapons have to be specially made to bombard a planet from orbit, whereas with an EM slug thrower is just point and boom. Also when firing an EM slug thrower towards a planet from orbit what hits the ground is plasma in most cases anyway.

The most in way of a hangar I'd want on an L.A.P. ship would be something you could land two puddle jumpers in mostly comfortably.

I still maintain that an L.A.P. ship should have at least eight rail-guns for both point defense and light ground strafing, very handy for supporting SGC personel pinned down on the surface of an alien world. I personally only want about eight secondary weapons on the medium sized attack ship we are thinking about.

In my view, bear with me if I have already said some or all of this before, a L.A.P. ship has about four primary missions. First, patrol a fixed area of space surrounding important sites so that you can gain early warning of incoming attacks. Second, provide support and defense of primary and secondary bases. Third, defend Earth's population from all extraterrestrial threats. Fourth, provide escort for both cargo vessels as well as 304s when they head into dangerous situations.

[Republibot 3.0]

You don't really need to park 'em in Nevada. You could base them on the moon, and use the gates or the rings to commute to work.

[stargater1990]

tbh, i dont really like the idea of a small patrol ship because using some simple technology already available makes a patrol ship something unesscisary. i mean on earth obviously a patrol ship is useless because there should always be at least 5 or 6 304s stationed on earth at all times and a sat grid with deep space sensors that detect incoming ships the same way atlantis's sensors work.

and on a base offworld, you really wouldnt need a patrol ship again because if you install merlins out of phase technology and a sensor system the same as on earth, then all you have to do is when a ship is incoming, shift the base out of phase and call earth and in no more than 14 hours, because that is the maximum amount of time it could ever take a ship to get anywhere in the galaxy, you'll have a ship/fleet there to get rid of the threat. also, by adding a few APBW sats to that base you could essientally place the firepower of 3 or 4 304s in orbit permanently and not have to have a ship come unless their destroyed and for an enemy to be able to do that, hes gotta be a serious threat.



also in regards to the next class of ship, i think that reintroducing the promethius class would be a good idea, except completely reworking the entire interior so that its not the same ship except in regards to the body which stays the same. then this ship would act as escorts to the 304 since i estimate theat their half the size or if their not then we can make it so and then 2 303s and 1 304 would constitute a battle group. this would be good because when engaging just one enemy vessel esp. a hive ship the 303s can act as shields for the 304 by blocking weapons fire or by drawing fire away from the 304 or when engaging multiple vessels the enemy fire can be spread across 3 ships rather than just one and free up the main 304 to deal with capital ships while the 303s deal with escorts like alkesh and cruisers..

also, the 303s could act as carriers for combat drones instead of fighters and the way these drones work is that their equiped with either an APBW turret or a railgun turret and are equiped with shields and work by tieing into the 3 ships' sensors and targeting systems and basically act as extensions of each ships main weapons and can be deployed in a defensive grid around all 3 ships in formation and cut down all fighters and other ships esp. cruisers and alkesh and extend the life of the main ships shields. and they can also be deployed to take out an enemys ships hyperdrive or whatnot and especially the APBW ones can double or triple the battlegroups firepower.

[Daryl Froggy]

tbh, i dont really like the idea of a small patrol ship because using some simple technology already available makes a patrol ship something unesscisary. i mean on earth obviously a patrol ship is useless because there should always be at least 5 or 6 304s stationed on earth at all times and a sat grid with deep space sensors that detect incoming ships the same way atlantis's sensors work.

Yeah except you could get four or six LAPs for the cost of one 304. I believe that having multiple medium-small sized ships greatly increases your tactical capabilities.

It is also far more likely to complete several medium-small ships in short order rather than the large 304s which are widely loved for their massive firepower.

and on a base offworld, you really wouldnt need a patrol ship again because if you install merlins out of phase technology and a sensor system the same as on earth, then all you have to do is when a ship is incoming, shift the base out of phase and call earth and in no more than 14 hours, because that is the maximum amount of time it could ever take a ship to get anywhere in the galaxy, you'll have a ship/fleet there to get rid of the threat. also, by adding a few APBW sats to that base you could essientally place the firepower of 3 or 4 304s in orbit permanently and not have to have a ship come unless their destroyed and for an enemy to be able to do that, hes gotta be a serious threat.

Uh... firstly Earth does not have access to multiple Merlin OoP devices so that is a moot point. Secondly we do not have the capability to reproduce Atlantis's sensor equipment. Thirdly fixed defensive gun points on a planet can be taken out far easier than mobile gun mounts, like those on my LAP ship idea.

also in regards to the next class of ship, i think that reintroducing the promethius class would be a good idea, except completely reworking the entire interior so that its not the same ship except in regards to the body which stays the same. then this ship would act as escorts to the 304 since i estimate theat their half the size or if their not then we can make it so and then 2 303s and 1 304 would constitute a battle group. this would be good because when engaging just one enemy vessel esp. a hive ship the 303s can act as shields for the 304 by blocking weapons fire or by drawing fire away from the 304 or when engaging multiple vessels the enemy fire can be spread across 3 ships rather than just one and free up the main 304 to deal with capital ships while the 303s deal with escorts like alkesh and cruisers..

I believe that we should change the 304's design so that it puts even more emphasis on offensive and defensive weaponry and less on the carrying of 302s as they are rarely useful in space combat.

After that all you really need would be small ships for escort, kind of like my LAP idea.

also, the 303s could act as carriers for combat drones instead of fighters and the way these drones work is that their equiped with either an APBW turret or a railgun turret and are equiped with shields and work by tieing into the 3 ships' sensors and targeting systems and basically act as extensions of each ships main weapons and can be deployed in a defensive grid around all 3 ships in formation and cut down all fighters and other ships esp. cruisers and alkesh and extend the life of the main ships shields. and they can also be deployed to take out an enemys ships hyperdrive or whatnot and especially the APBW ones can double or triple the battlegroups firepower.

The drones are an interesting idea, of course there is always signal jamming tech. However I personally think that replacing the 304 design would be better than simply adding a new capitol ship design to the construction roster.

[stargater1990]

Yeah except you could get four or six LAPs for the cost of one 304. I believe that having multiple medium-small sized ships greatly increases your tactical capabilities.

It is also far more likely to complete several medium-small ships in short order rather than the large 304s which are widely loved for their massive firepower.



Uh... firstly Earth does not have access to multiple Merlin OoP devices so that is a moot point. Secondly we do not have the capability to reproduce Atlantis's sensor equipment. Thirdly fixed defensive gun points on a planet can be taken out far easier than mobile gun mounts, like those on my LAP ship idea.



I believe that we should change the 304's design so that it puts even more emphasis on offensive and defensive weaponry and less on the carrying of 302s as they are rarely useful in space combat.

After that all you really need would be small ships for escort, kind of like my LAP idea.



The drones are an interesting idea, of course there is always signal jamming tech. However I personally think that replacing the 304 design would be better than simply adding a new capitol ship design to the construction roster.

but the thing is that 1 304 is less likely to be destroyed because its stronger and more powerful and can opperate on its own whereas smaller ships would require ships to be grouped together and thats just a hassle imo plus, when we start using asgard technology in the construction of our ships we will be able to really mass produce 304s and crank out at least 3 or 4 a year and considering that 1 304 can kill 2 ori ships and 2 hive ships and easily 3 hataks that means that the 304 is a really good ship because 1 on 1 it can always win whereas a smaller ship wouldnt ever be able to win 1 on 1 so having multiple ships means that your sacraficing strength for numbers which isint a very good idea imo.


actually we do, or at least theres a high probability that we can because in the episode "unending" carter said that she was going to recreate merlins out of phase technology from the tech she had onboard and just the fact that she thought it was possible, means that its possible and quite likely imo.

and while no, for some reason they cant seem to duplicate atlantis's sensors even though it should be a simple matter, they can however duplicate asgard sensor technology and since thor said that the asgard monitor all hyperspace activity in the vicinity of earth that means we can do the same so again, we dont need ships patrolling the system.

and i dont think we should change the 304s design but rather remove the 302s and replace them with the drones i mentioned because they would be far more effective and would triple if not quadruple a 304s fire power.

and actually the drones wouldnt be vulnerable to signal jamming because they are more than capable of independant actions because they are actually weapons satalites that are designed to work as a network but each satalite or drone has its own internal sensors and tactical database allowing them to work individually or as a group. so think of them as a deployable weapons satalite grid, they dont need to recieve outside instructions to function but are slightly more effective if they have it because then they can work collectively. also, weve never had our comm signals jammed before so i dont really see that as a very likely scenario anyway.

and tbh, i cant really think of any scenario where having a small patrol ship would really prove all that useful because if for example one of our outposts were under attack by a hatak, that patrol ship isint going to be ableto destroy it or if one of our outposts were under attack bya hive ship, theres no way, and so to be able to destroy enemy vessels with a comfortable saftey margin i just think that at a minimum, you need to be building at least 303 size ships and up so that they have a lot of uses and can more than handle our enemies.

[Dex Luther]

but the thing is that 1 304 is less likely to be destroyed because its stronger and more powerful and can opperate on its own whereas smaller ships would require ships to be grouped together and thats just a hassle imo plus, when we start using asgard technology in the construction of our ships we will be able to really mass produce 304s and crank out at least 3 or 4 a year and considering that 1 304 can kill 2 ori ships and 2 hive ships and easily 3 hataks that means that the 304 is a really good ship because 1 on 1 it can always win whereas a smaller ship wouldnt ever be able to win 1 on 1 so having multiple ships means that your sacraficing strength for numbers which isint a very good idea imo.

Multiple small ships can attact multiple targets at the same time or attack one target from multiple directions. Attacking a enemy from multiple directions would be harder to defend against than having 1 304 coming at you. What's harder to kill; A bee or a swarm of bees?

Having multiple smaller ships means you can do multiple jobs at once. A few can carry cargo to Earth from some base while a few more patrol around the solar system while a few more ferry equipment to the Moon and Mars to set up bases there.

These smaller vessels can all be equipped with Asgard shield, hyperdrive, and weapons as well as transport beaming technology just like the larger 304s.

Just because a ship is bigger doesn't mean it's stronger and less likely to be destroyed. Quite the opposite actually. Bigger ships = bigger targets to shoot at.

[comperius]

Agreed.

For example; if 304 in EatG would have 4 or more APBW shooting at the same target on the superhive, before it became the superhive he would be able to make some if not grate damage to the ship.

If we repeat that with 4 small ships and every small ship has 2 APBW's shooting at the same time, 8 beams would make even grater damage and because there would be 4 ships to track super hive would be unable to destroy all 4 ships but probably one by one. In that time remaning ships would destroy the super hive.

Also small ships will be able to move faster, would be easier to move around and harder to hit. I again say that we should start builing a fleet of smaller ships...

[locutes]

also, if we have only got a few ships we cannot defend everything, one ship cannot be everywhere at once, multiple smaller ships can be at allot more places.

[locutes]

ever heard of the saying: 'Never put all of your eggs into one basket.'

In this case having all your war ships be 304. The Goa'uld made such a mistake and see where it got them?

[stargater1990]

Multiple small ships can attact multiple targets at the same time or attack one target from multiple directions. Attacking a enemy from multiple directions would be harder to defend against than having 1 304 coming at you. What's harder to kill; A bee or a swarm of bees?

Having multiple smaller ships means you can do multiple jobs at once. A few can carry cargo to Earth from some base while a few more patrol around the solar system while a few more ferry equipment to the Moon and Mars to set up bases there.

These smaller vessels can all be equipped with Asgard shield, hyperdrive, and weapons as well as transport beaming technology just like the larger 304s.

Just because a ship is bigger doesn't mean it's stronger and less likely to be destroyed. Quite the opposite actually. Bigger ships = bigger targets to shoot at.

but the thing is that 1 304 can defeat all ships in the known universe 1 on 1 and even 1 on 2, so the tactical advantage of being able to attack from multiple directions dosent really apply because of that.

and furthermore, the problem i have with smaller ships is that 1 on 1 they cant ever win, except against small vessels like alkesh or possibly cruisers, and i dont like that at all. i perfer to have a ship that is able to destroy our biggest enemy threat, which is hatak, and hive ship. if it cant do that on its own then that means that it will always have to fight in a group and i dont like that scenario at all because if you say that the good thing about having smaller ships is that you can split them up then that means that if you get jumped by a hive and dont have a certain amount of ships, then your all gonna be destroyed because alone you dont have the firepower to beat it.

we dont have to necesarily build only 304s but i think that as a rule, you should only go as small as possible without compromising the ability to be at least an even match with a hive ship, and i think that line is crossed when you go any smaller than a 303 type vessel which i think is about half the size of a 304. now building some of those means that we have more ships to do more things but also dont have to group them together to defeat our enemies.

i just dont think its a good idea to build a ship that our enemies can easily destroy and that its better to build a ship where to even destroy 1 of our ships its gonna cost them a couple of theirs.

and also, we dont need cargo ships or patrol ships because we have a stargate and sensors and the only thing we need ships for is defence.

[lordofseas]

but the thing is that 1 304 can defeat all ships in the known universe 1 on 1 and even 1 on 2, so the tactical advantage of being able to attack from multiple directions dosent really apply because of that.

and furthermore, the problem i have with smaller ships is that 1 on 1 they cant ever win, except against small vessels like alkesh or possibly cruisers, and i dont like that at all. i perfer to have a ship that is able to destroy our biggest enemy threat, which is hatak, and hive ship. if it cant do that on its own then that means that it will always have to fight in a group and i dont like that scenario at all because if you say that the good thing about having smaller ships is that you can split them up then that means that if you get jumped by a hive and dont have a certain amount of ships, then your all gonna be destroyed because alone you dont have the firepower to beat it.

we dont have to necesarily build only 304s but i think that as a rule, you should only go as small as possible without compromising the ability to be at least an even match with a hive ship, and i think that line is crossed when you go any smaller than a 303 type vessel which i think is about half the size of a 304. now building some of those means that we have more ships to do more things but also dont have to group them together to defeat our enemies.

i just dont think its a good idea to build a ship that our enemies can easily destroy and that its better to build a ship where to even destroy 1 of our ships its gonna cost them a couple of theirs.

and also, we dont need cargo ships or patrol ships because we have a stargate and sensors and the only thing we need ships for is defence.

*points to superhive*

[colbmista]

and dont forget the power equirment to ship equipment and personnel to other galaxys... thus meaning we need some sort of cargo/transport ship other then the 304 to take on that role.. so

[stargater1990]

Agreed.

For example; if 304 in EatG would have 4 or more APBW shooting at the same target on the superhive, before it became the superhive he would be able to make some if not grate damage to the ship.

If we repeat that with 4 small ships and every small ship has 2 APBW's shooting at the same time, 8 beams would make even grater damage and because there would be 4 ships to track super hive would be unable to destroy all 4 ships but probably one by one. In that time remaning ships would destroy the super hive.

Also small ships will be able to move faster, would be easier to move around and harder to hit. I again say that we should start builing a fleet of smaller ships...

first of all, if you wanna go back in time and try to say that the super hive would have been destroyed if thered been more ships, i can just as easily say that had the 304 been equiped with 4 more APBWs bringing the total to 6 as well as combat drones that are baisically APBW turrets equiped with a shield that can withstand about 15-30 seconds of regular hive fire and are highly manuverable and way more than enough manuverable to dodge the superhives weapons, and the 304 carried about 20 of them and normally, 5 should be enough to destroy a hive ship and it deployed them and fired all 6 main weapons at once it could have easily destroyed the superhive.

also, considering how manuverable a 304 is, it should have been able to dodge those weapon blasts because they were just so big so again, a 304 if any ship could have beaten it could have had it been equipped with the best possible weapons.

i mean by adding the combat drones i mentioned as well as 4 more APBWs as well as an auxilliary power room with say, 12 mark 1 naquada generators to really give the shield an extra boost then youve just turned a 304 into what it really can be and just made it able to destroy 6 hive ships on its own, 2 by itself and 4 from the combat drones( 5 drones each hive).

and if the reverse engineered merlins out of phase technology is small enough, which considering that the original is pretty small is quite likely, then you could also put it on say a dozen nukes and make it now able to destroy 18 hive ships, 2 by itself, 6 from the drones, and 12 from the phase missils. and if you add say 10 kamakazi drones, which are basically small drones with a small cloaking device and a nuke that just flies right into an enemy hives dart bay and blows up taking the hive with it, then youve just increased the number to 28 hives at once, thats like half of their entire fleet at last count, BY ONE SHIP.

and the shocking thing is that everything i just mentioned is 100% dooable. weve seen small cloaking devices before, like hathors and more importantly a small personal asgard one, and it shouldnt be too hard to build APBW drones, since their basically in my mind just like the AG3 satalite system daniel built in his mind, and the phase nukes are also possible. so 1 304 could take out 28 hives whereas several small ships could never do that.

[stargater1990]

*points to superhive*

again, the superhive, if it could have ever possibly been destroyed by conventional weapons, could have bee destroyed by a 304 equiped with the kind of payload i just described in my previous post unless it was more powerful than 28 hives.

[stargater1990]

nope, not really, all you need is an intergalactic gate bridge and beaming technology that works by the same way the beaming tech in the episode "the quest" worked. and the same method can be used for in galaxy transport.

[colbmista]

and what i f they need somthing thats bigger then the gate? lol and what about the amount of personnel they cant fit them all on to the half way point space station.

[stargater1990]

also, if we have only got a few ships we cannot defend everything, one ship cannot be everywhere at once, multiple smaller ships can be at allot more places.

ever heard of the saying: 'Never put all of your eggs into one basket.'

In this case having all your war ships be 304. The Goa'uld made such a mistake and see where it got them?

thats where having a standard, mass-produced satalite/combat drone comes in. if you deploy say 10 or 20 of them at our bases and merlins out of phase tech, then if it is under attack, it phase cloaks, the sats go to work and destroy the enemy and save the day. and if for some reason, the enemy ships get through our sats, which would be unlikely, then thats when you deploy a 304 and it should be there in no more than 14 hours.

and no, the goauld actually had several different types of ships, they had a teltak, an alkesh, the glider, and a hatak. and if your refering to their lack of diversity of main battle ships, then that wasnt what killed them, it was how crappy they made their ships, i mean come on, 1 shot from the ori is all it takes, thats just weak. whereas a nice quality 304 can destroy 2 ori ships in 12 shots whereas 12 shots from a hatak, if they could even get off that many, wouldnt even shake the ship.

[stargater1990]

i think you misunderstood, they would be beamed into a buffer and then have the matterstream transfered through the gate to midway then transfered again to atlantis, they would then be rematerialized in a nice big room in atlantis. think of it kinda like call forwarding for beaming tech, where they just get passed along from a buffer on earth to one of midway and then to one on atlantis, they would never acutally rematerialize untill they get to atlantis. so you could potentially transfer a thousand ppl at once. and hundreds of tonnes of equipment and big macs for mckay that should theoretically, still be nice and hot even though their 30 minutes old.

[colbmista]

i dont think they would do that due to the risk of malfuntion or being under attack