Someone has been reading this forum: Common Ground Discussion

[Ryu]

First, what a ****ing Wonderful episode, see it doesn't take much to get real die hard fans to love the show again. You guys win us back really easily when you guys put in the effort into the show. What I liked about this episode: Good writing, wasn't expecting what would happen, made this more real (i.e. I can see that happening, no lucky breaks) and lastly you made the heros, Heros again.

Spoiler:

Like a few others in the past, I have raved on how evil and betraying SGA especially Sheppard was regarding their treatment of Micheal and Niem. Seriously, if anyone else but the writer for this episode wrote it, I believe that Sheppard would have killed that Wraith at the end, hey he was a Wraith or Ronon would have done that. But no, this writer played with us, lead us to believe that SGA was the same untrustful group some of us thought in the past at the beginning (come on, exchanging a head of state and jeopardizing a war for one man, yes even if it was Sheppard). And then the writer turns everything around. Kudos. He must have read the threads or must felt himself what some of felt, that SGA were no longer ideal heros and that miracle solution every show makes even the impossible, impossible to believe. Great episode. Love it. Who ever the writer is, thank you. You should definitely ask the producers for a raise, you deserve it.

[theonebluegecko]

Wait, why is this a new thread and not just part of the other Common Ground ones, we have like three already.

[The Sweet Guy]

I guess because people like to talk about Common Ground a lot

[doylefan22]

...and lastly you made the heros, Heros again.

But the heroes were never not heroes. They were just people put in horrible positions with tough choices to be made. This isn't a children's book. The heroes don't have to be pure, virtuous, true and always right and the bad guys don't have to wear black, be purely evil and cackle. That's one of the best things about the show that there are so many grey areas. If all we saw every week was a bunch of 'heroes' doing their daring do the show would be boring. It would be a fairytale and little more than filler TV. At least this way it is interesting.

There is not always a right or wrong choice, but more often than not a mixture of hard ones. Take Michael for example, if your choices are kill him, let him starve to death or turn him, what do you chose? None is really better than the others, each has their own problems. But you've got to make a choice and that's what they do admirably. They make those hard choices, trying to do what's best.

These characters aren't heroes because they're on the side of good, they're heroes because they risk their lives trying to save others.

[hyzmarca]

There is not always a right or wrong choice, but more often than not a mixture of hard ones. Take Michael for example, if your choices are kill him, let him starve to death or turn him, what do you chose? None is really better than the others, each has their own problems. But you've got to make a choice and that's what they do admirably. They make those hard choices, trying to do what's best.

Actually, 'let him eat people whom we do not like' would have been a viable option, at least in the short-term. A wraith on a combat team would be able to gorge himself on stormtroopers with no moral reprecussions.

[doylefan22]

Actually, 'let him eat people whom we do not like' would have been a viable option, at least in the short-term. A wraith on a combat team would be able to gorge himself on stormtroopers with no moral reprecussions.

And that's also pretty damn dark...That's some rather dodgy ground they'd be treading there. Is that any 'better' than the others solutions? No, not really. And there's also the added risk of him escaping. Michael posed a huge problem because he had already betrayed them and his own kind as it suited him and knew all about the existence of Atlantis. They were certainly between a rock and a hard place with that one.

[Ryu]

That's what make heros Heros, they are able to make the difficult choices without sacrificing their morals. Does the ends justify the means. If all they did was try to survive, then they would be no different than the Genii who use that exact same reasoning to do what they do. The title Hero is not granted easily.

[Easter Lily]

But the heroes were never not heroes. They were just people put in horrible positions with tough choices to be made. This isn't a children's book. The heroes don't have to be pure, virtuous, true and always right and the bad guys don't have to wear black, be purely evil and cackle. That's one of the best things about the show that there are so many grey areas. If all we saw every week was a bunch of 'heroes' doing their daring do the show would be boring. It would be a fairytale and little more than filler TV. At least this way it is interesting.

There is not always a right or wrong choice, but more often than not a mixture of hard ones. Take Michael for example, if your choices are kill him, let him starve to death or turn him, what do you chose? None is really better than the others, each has their own problems. But you've got to make a choice and that's what they do admirably. They make those hard choices, trying to do what's best.

These characters aren't heroes because they're on the side of good, they're heroes because they risk their lives trying to save others.

Absolutely... well said.
I like this quote from Firefly... "It is my believe that anyone who has ever had a statue made of him was one kind of a son of a ***** or another."

The reality is that leaders straddle within grey areas. Dig deeply enough I'm sure the skeletons will emerge.
If there's anything problematic about how these choices are played out, it's really the writing that needs tightening up. TPTB need to be a lot clearer about how some of these decisions come about.

[doylefan22]

That's what make heros Heros, they are able to make the difficult choices without sacrificing their morals.

But you just can't. That's kind of the point of the storyline and what made it so interesting. Nothing they could do in that situation was morally right - it wasn't morally right to kill him, feed him or turn him. But they had to do something. Morals cannot be set in stone because life just isn't that straight forward - it is morally wrong to steal, but what if it is a mother trying to feed her starving children, is that wrong? Is she wrong to do what she can to help them survive?

To be honest, I don't want the characters to be straight A heroes who never put a foot wrong because then they're about as far from real people as they can get. I can see where you get the ideal from, I just think the reality is very different.

I don't like the term 'hero' applied to this show because that always sounds very simple to me - a bit too Disney. The original Greek simply says 'heroes' are those of great strength and courage who are celebrated for their bold exploits - there's no real right and wrong about it. And the Greek heroes always had great flaws. Joseph Campell had a great quote which says "A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself." That's how I think this team are heroes. They do something when others sit back and let the world go by.

My favourite way to describe a hero though is from Eco...

"The real hero is always a hero by mistake; he dreams of being an honest coward like everybody else."

Great sentiment. And it clearly makes Rodney the most heroic guy in the universe.

[Ryu]

You have some points. But I think we just have different vision of heros and what we would like to see in them. Let's just agree to disagree. But some good valid points.

[stewsith]

im still pretty shocked at how

Spoiler:

they betrayed michael by changing him human a second time. They could have had a wraith ally there. At least they let the wraith live.

[Easter Lily]

That's what make heros Heros, they are able to make the difficult choices without sacrificing their morals. Does the ends justify the means. If all they did was try to survive, then they would be no different than the Genii who use that exact same reasoning to do what they do. The title Hero is not granted easily.

Who's to say that Kolya isn't a hero to his men or his supporters... Their rationale could be that he has the big picture in mind.

The reality is that "heroes" do do some pretty dodgy things at times, all in the name of the "greater good".

[hyzmarca]

And that's also pretty damn dark...That's some rather dodgy ground they'd be treading there. Is that any 'better' than the others solutions? No, not really. And there's also the added risk of him escaping. Michael posed a huge problem because he had already betrayed them and his own kind as it suited him and knew all about the existence of Atlantis. They were certainly between a rock and a hard place with that one.

But it makes some very cool (and unusually survivable) fight scenes.

[Major_Griff]

I much enjoyed that in this episode that finally Weir and SGA weren't duped by the Genii or wraith, that their willingness to trust finally paid off, that they made descisions the right way. In S1 they broke the Geneva convention by experimenting on Steve, in S2 the considered torchering Kavenaugh. Finally they made a right choice by not negotiating with a terrorist. Finally. Keep this new writer, hopefully he'll rub off on the rest of the writers.

[maylet]

I love this episode, it was really good