Underground (108)

[mrscopterdoc]

I especially liked those precautionary measures Sheppard took. I really missed that in the latest two seasons. There I got the feeling they never were cautious and it was just either a means of Rodney finding a miraculous solution or about brute force. That's what I loved in S1-3 using your head for thinking and not as battering ram.

So very true! I agree! In the later seasons they made decisons that just made me wonder....

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

This episode reminds me of SG-1's The Other Side.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Thought it was a pretty good episode.

I'll say this, when they were hooking up the Wraith thing up, damn did that screen look retro. I love it.

And once again, we p***ed off some aliens (we do that way too much).

Tomorrow, we find a way home.

[Krisz]

I too wondered why they made more enemies than friends, guess they are too jealous of their technological superiority. Of course it doesn't help making an enemy of one of the more technologically advanced ones who get even more excited at the prospect of getting hold of it at any cost!

Once again they are no where near Atlantis, exploring that to find something to use against the Wraith, but I digress!!!

Colm Meany was great here as the seemingly welcoming but deceptive host. A great game of poker face and bluffing between him and Sheppard, great tension with the mistrust, and of course Sheppard getting the upper hand with superior wits and technology! Not too bad an episode.

[hlndncr]

I'll never look at the Amish the same way again. You think there are nuclear research facilities beneath the farms of Western Pennsylvania?

I found this episode sufficiently entertaining but I have lots of problems with it.

First, why didn't Weir go to negotiate with the Genii? That is her speciality and she would clearly be better at it the Shep.

Second, the Genii were so concerned about keeping their strength and tech a secret but after this it seems that everyone in the galaxy knows the Genii are a military power. What happened to them wanting to protect themselves?

Third, what's with Teyla leaving a man behind and Shep being OK with it? What happened to those SGC values? And isn't it ironic that the guy gets left to die because he didn't want to save someone else from the same fate (and Teyla was ready to risk capture to save the other guy)?

Honestly, I think the Genii had legit reasons to hate and mistrust the Atlantis folks. They've really screwed up quite a bit and put the rest of the galaxy in a terrible spot. Kind of hard to make friends with that opening line.

[mathpiglet]

I agree with your analysis, hlndncr.

Weir should have gone. Now, how do you think the episode would have been different? I'm afraid it might have been a more story, since she would not have investigated the hidden bunker.

[hlndncr]

I agree with your analysis, hlndncr.

Weir should have gone. Now, how do you think the episode would have been different? I'm afraid it might have been a more story, since she would not have investigated the hidden bunker.

I don't know, I think she would have had John and McKay investigate and they still would have found the bunker. The negotiations with Cowan just would have been very different. I think she would have been able to keep a stronger bargaining position with the Genii and difuse some of the hostilities and tensions between them and the Atlantis team. After all, that's what a good negotiator does.

[mathpiglet]

I agree, but I think we would have lost good stories without the hostility.

[Lythisrose]

Joe Mallozzi's memories of this episode:
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...d-underground/

UNDERGROUND (108)

Given the fact the wraith target technologically advanced societies, it would make sense that certain civilizations would seek to disguise their accomplishments from the enemy. Enter the Genii. I liked them as a wildcard, a military society that could prove both friend and foe, depending on the circumstances. I also liked the continued clash between the civilian and military approaches on Atlantis, something we touch on in the previous episode but really comes to the fore here in the discussions between Weir and Sheppard. Again, Sheppard makes sense and Weir inevitably acquiesces to his game plan on the strength of his argument, but what is particularly interesting about this ethical clash is not the debate itself but the fact that Sheppard makes a unilateral decision on dealing with the Genii BEFORE discussing it with his defacto Commander. Not once, but twice!

Later in the episode, the Atlantis team comes clean about the wraith and warns the Genii that they were awakned as a result of their failed rescue op and subsequent murder of a queen. Well, yes and no. Certainly yes in their minds but one could make a very strong argument that the wraith would have been awakened regardless, not because of Sheppard’s actions on the failed rescue op, but because of the information the queen draws out of Sumner: the existence of Earth and the billions of humans just waiting to be fed upon. Of course, Sheppard wasn’t privy to the conversation and has no way of knowing that, while he may blame himself for the wraith’s early awakening, it’s likely that the wraith would have awakened anyway.

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

An alright ep but I'm not a fan of the Genii.

I do love the scenes between Shep and Kolya later on though. Very cool rivalry. I also love the Genii weapons.

Cowen was annoying. We like you. Changed my mind you die! We like you again. Changed my mind again you die! Ugh.

[xevgyx]

No matter how many times i watch it i just cant start liking the Genii They are the only race that i find annoying and Kolya is just making me nuts! I like how the ep ends with the surprise from Sheppard though

[Jae'a]

Cowen was annoying. We like you. Changed my mind you die! We like you again. Changed my mind again you die! Ugh.

I did like seeing Colm Meaney though, being a fan of Deep Space Nine.
Overall, a bit 'meh' though...
My LiveJournal post

[gatechick]

This is not one of my favorite episodes, especially because it highlights one of the things that annoyed me most about the members of the Atlantis expedition. Why would you go investigate something on the land of others without permission. They would never allow a guest of Atlantis to roam freely and go exploring on their own. They would be suspicious of them and their motives. I can see why they made so many enemies. I think Atlantis should have expected to be treated just so because of their actions. (I mean yeah I know it wouldn't make for much of a show, but it makes for great exploration of the topic) Atlantis and SG-1 always seemed to think it was their right to come into another civilization and just freely walk about. The never extended the same courtesy to others.

[jelgate]

I have to agree with not having Weir negioate. This is how area of expertise. The first time Sheppherd went back with using C4 on the Geni stumps Weir should have been on the planet negioating with them. It made little sense for Sheppherd's military force to be involved in negioating for food. It made even less sense to help making nuclear bombs. That violates so many laws on most of nations of Earth that it is ridicilous. That said I do like the episode. The enemy nature of Geni is an interesting one. I look at the episode and I have to wonder what do we do in this episode that made Geni hate us so much. And I think it comes down to trust. The Geni are paranoid and suspicious to trust Atlantis. I have to think this parnoia is a result of the constant fear of the Wraith.

[Matt G]

Midweek, another ep of SG1

1. As I've said twice on this thread alone, the problem with the Genii is that they are bleeps! Yes our guys screwed up by waking up the Wraith but Cowan still seriously over-reacted.

2. Rewatching it this time round I was reminded how 'little' Teyla knew about the Genii and particularly how little she knew Sora. How much of the Genii's farmer personas are genuine and and how much is/was faked?

3. Maybe Weir would have been better at negotiating but that wouldn't have stopped the messy stuff from happening.

4. I smiled a bit more at Shep's deceptions.

Still fun.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

Underground

In SG1 we've met technically advanced cultures beyond our wildest imaginations while in SGA we've met seemingly simplistic cultures with either a hidden secret or anterior motives; I guess it's just the way it goes in the Pegasus galaxy... In this episode, the Atlantis crew encounters a bunch of traders from Taylor's long personal list of contacts but as it turns out, they too have a secret and as an additional shock, ulterior motives.

The initial deception of them as farmers is good enough; I liked their pleasant environment and it sort of supported the odd thing that was going on. Just imagine, the tons of people farming and the celebrations to be had... However, once they get to the underground city things get to be a bit wonky; I mean sure, it's shocking that this is their true secret but the people slowly transform from a bunch of compassionate folks to a mix between a distrustful society and a society living in fear, with the distrustfulness being eerily familiar and complacent as a whole. I like some of the underground city with it's 50's like tech and the society isn't 100% antagonistic (which makes their scenes entertaining); the woman is an example of this as she manages to carry a friendly personality but the society we come to know in this episode feels like the usual distrustful amount of people; the leader, some bits of the woman, her father... I understand that this is something SGA is doing, introducing something seemingly simple and then including a twist or motives that are ultimately questionable; they even did it with the previous episode but they could of been a bit more unique with the plots they have, watching an entire society of people betray them is much more exciting when it's unique and non-cliched.

In the end, they're all the same.

The arguments relating to trust are done well enough; they manage to be competent and in an SGA way, almost insightful as the growth of a simple thing into a more complex thing is noted throughout the episode. What is seen makes us think about how far we're willing to go, how much we're willing to trust the other in order to have a common Ally in the fight against the Wraith; even Dr. Weir has objections and she makes them dually noted but she goes along with it chagrinally because she has some hope that the plans will work. Unfortunately there isn't much to go along and the entire topic becomes generic midway though the episode, I mean much of us know about the concept of trust and it's only marginally interesting because it involves A-bombs and the Wraith; it would of been nice to see the concept of trust done in a different way (and it is somewhat) but it's ultimately used in a way that's generic; not even bothering to make itself known from the crowd. It isn't a big deal but still...

They do manage to include the Wraith in a way that breaks up the monotony and the journey into the Wraith hive is entertaining; it's tense... it's exhilarating and thought the initial impact of it has lessened, it still manages to be scary and claustrophobic. Seeing Shepherd scale the rooms of the hive is good alongside the crew, it's moments like this which allow him to show off the best of him, well aside from the moments where he leads and the moments where he does cool stuff; even the Geminii guys do some respectable stuff as well as their perception of life leads to a decent scene, well until the moment where he turns back and kills someone. I mean you're not supposed to be drawing attention to yourselves, even if you were against saving him, why kill him? Anyways, the moments where they get the data, the chase and subsequent escape from the Wraith hive was done well enough and the fact that the data acquired from the Wraith is used to further the threat and may even be used in subsequent episodes well, it just proves SGA is focused on moving forward.

SGA... Moving forward.

I have mentioned many times that Rodney is annoying, detracts from the episode he's in and almost wants to seem like the center of attention; well this may be one of his finest hours yet as there is barely anything that detracts from his character. (not to say that there is though) Focusing on an A-bomb allows David Hewlett to focus his performance and provide something that digs into his character, showing off his quirkiness, knowledge, his admiration and more importantly, his worthiness; to see him placed in situations like this brings out the best of his character. I have no idea why the writers make him annoying and have him do weird sounds or make him say weird quotes, maybe because it's funny, maybe because it defines his character; all I know is that it's distracting, mostly undermines his character and makes me look at him as someone who has potential but contradicts that by being unlikable; not to say he has his fans but still... These types of things is what Rodney was made for, it allows him to express himself and really show off his character in an appealing way; we don't want to see Rodney wearing a shield making quips, we want to see him helping out with an A-bomb.

Ford is nice in this episode but I really liked Taylor; her performance was approachable and we even learned a bit more about her here. There are tons of things we don't know about her and to see her chat it up with that girl about the trust and the trades, to see her utilize past events in her life and to utilize that in a way that gives a hint to what she's been through... That right there showcases the potential she has; her list of contacts, her friendships and even her life could possibly fill up an entire season of SGA. I really hope the SGA people use her more often because this episode showcases what could be done with her in regards to the series. I really would of liked to see more of her though, I mean the society is one of Taylor's contacts and she's sidelined between Shephard and Rodney; granted I've read Stargate writers don't know how to deal with their female characters but this seems like the perfect chance to give one of your potential-filled characters the chance to shine. Maybe in a couple of episodes they'll do that.

They should be focusing on her right now.

This episode is entertaining enough but is quite disappointing compared to the last episode; regardless, this is still a good outing for Stargate. The situation that they're in is quite entertaining and Rodney gets to shine here but there's still a bit of wonkyness mostly relating to the subject matter of trust, the society and the plotting of the episode as a whole; this is something you won't regret watching but there's also the ulterior feeling that more could of been done with this concept. I mean an underground civilization, Wraith, the fassad? You could create 100 fanfics if you were truly imaginative... A decent way to kill an hour.

7.5/10

[bookwormjules]

Rewatching this episode, and I find how much I enjoyed the Genii storyline. I wish we had more of a focus on them throughout the series. This isn't the best episode with them in it, but it does touch on some interesting points. Some if which were already touched upon above.

I never liked Sora. She was a character I never wanted to see again. But the results of this episode, have her return. Although the episode arc she returns in, was one if my favourites.

[Cluas]

This one was way better that the previous. I like to hate the Genii.

I guess there are some really awful plotholes in here, but I enjoyed it much more than the previous