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Thread: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

  1. #1
    Major Peoples_General's Avatar
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    Default scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Okay, I posted this pic in another thread. But I noticed that this could be good for scaling purposes as well. Note the size of people with relation to the ships (both real world navy, and starships).

    As for this pic... the 2 guys on the Nimitz are about 2x the height of the people/Jaffa in the Kheb pic. Therefore the Nimitz should be about 1/2 the size of a Ha'Tak. Which the Ha'Tak size measurement of about 600+m long to be about correct, as the Nimitz are about 320m long.




  2. #2
    First Lieutenant Chutzpah's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    I find those two pictures really hard to compare.

    I always think of their size like this. The Triangle thing in the middle is the size of the Giza Pyramids (if not a wee bit bigger).
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  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant zpm!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    size comparsion can only be done, by, angle, geometry, algebra, math. not based on a picture alone.
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  4. #4
    Major Avatar28's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    I can't 100% vouch for his accuracy, but the guy seems to have done his homework.

    http://www.merzo.net/index.html

    Click on the 1x tab and scroll down. You can at least see a Hatak compared to a number of real world ships and buildings.

  5. #5
    Staff Sergeant TjomasC's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Seen that site before... its really good for giving you an idea of the size of ships... although the layout makes it difficult for direct comparisons

  6. #6
    Captain Dutch_Razor's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    So that would make it about the size of a Star Destroyer? (the link with all the ships)

  7. #7
    Major Daryl Froggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by TjomasC
    Seen that site before... its really good for giving you an idea of the size of ships... although the layout makes it difficult for direct comparisons
    If you are using internet explorer you can drag most of the ships to each other for comparisons sake.

    Oh and on that page it is slightly smaller than a star destroyer (0.6 kilometers shorter).

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Ya, you absolutely cannot compare those two pictures, they aren't the same distance from the ship, the scale is obviously not the same.

  9. #9
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Chutzpah
    I always think of their size like this. The Triangle thing in the middle is the size of the Giza Pyramids (if not a wee bit bigger).
    No, the pyramid thing is not the size of one of the Giza pyramids; it's not even the same shape.

    I don't know why people don't understand this, but the "pyramid" that makes up the core of a Ha'tak mothership is a tetrahedron. The pyramid that made up Ra's ship in the movie is a square pyramid.

    A tetrahedron has 4 faces: 4 triangles
    A square pyramid has 5 faces: 4 triangles and 1 square

    A tetrahedron could not possibly land safely on a square pyramid.

    Furthermore, the great pyramid in Giza is about 145 meters tall and 230 meters on a side, where most scalings I've seen done of a Ha'tak has it's tetrahedron at about 430 meters in height and it's base is about 500 meters per side.

    To get back to topic though, coming up with definitive dimensions for the ships in StarGate is pretty futile; the CGI artists change the scales of the ships all the time. It's because they're artists; they'll change the scales to make the scene have a dramatic effect. It makes the viewers say "Wow, look how big the bad guys ships are compared to the good guys! The good guys are doomed!"

    With a StarGate Online game coming out in a couple years, the game developers will need some hard info on how big everything is in the StarGate universe. That includes everything from ships to weapons to cities and so on. That will probably end up becoming the standard, since it doesn't look like the franchise is interested in publishing a ship technical manual any time soon.
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  10. #10
    Major Avatar28's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    I imagine that the Spycraft D20 based Stargate SG-1 RPG probably has a fair bit of information like that too. It was, I believe, created with official help to a lot of the sources.

  11. #11
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar28
    I imagine that the Spycraft D20 based Stargate SG-1 RPG probably has a fair bit of information like that too. It was, I believe, created with official help to a lot of the sources.
    They apparently never created a spaceship module for that game. Also, Alderac lost their license to produce the RPG, so there won't be any new modules or expansions made from official information.
    Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

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  12. #12
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    No, the pyramid thing is not the size of one of the Giza pyramids; it's not even the same shape.

    I don't know why people don't understand this, but the "pyramid" that makes up the core of a Ha'tak mothership is a tetrahedron. The pyramid that made up Ra's ship in the movie is a square pyramid.

    A tetrahedron has 4 faces: 4 triangles
    A square pyramid has 5 faces: 4 triangles and 1 square

    A tetrahedron could not possibly land safely on a square pyramid.

    Furthermore, the great pyramid in Giza is about 145 meters tall and 230 meters on a side, where most scalings I've seen done of a Ha'tak has it's tetrahedron at about 430 meters in height and it's base is about 500 meters per side.

    To get back to topic though, coming up with definitive dimensions for the ships in StarGate is pretty futile; the CGI artists change the scales of the ships all the time. It's because they're artists; they'll change the scales to make the scene have a dramatic effect. It makes the viewers say "Wow, look how big the bad guys ships are compared to the good guys! The good guys are doomed!"

    With a StarGate Online game coming out in a couple years, the game developers will need some hard info on how big everything is in the StarGate universe. That includes everything from ships to weapons to cities and so on. That will probably end up becoming the standard, since it doesn't look like the franchise is interested in publishing a ship technical manual any time soon.
    Actually, Season 9 established Ha'tak's do land on pyramids, so the square base of a Gize sized pyramids must fit within the triangle of the Ha'tak.

    Like this;

    Assuming the square = base length of the Gize pyramid, you can do this;


    Which gives approx 2000m max width for a Ha'tak.
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  13. #13
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ancient
    Actually, Season 9 established Ha'tak's do land on pyramids, so the square base of a Gize sized pyramids must fit within the triangle of the Ha'tak.
    Which episode was this? Could you cite your reference please?
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  14. #14
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Even before season 9,
    4x21 iirc douple jepardy, where cronos ship lands on a pyramid.
    Which leads to another problem with the scaling.
    If a ha'tak is 2000m wide, how come that in Camelot a ha'tak is smaller then a toilet class wide, if the supergate is below 2000m wide, and therefore the ori ship must be as well?

  15. #15
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Auralis
    Even before season 9,
    4x21 iirc douple jepardy, where cronos ship lands on a pyramid.
    Uh, Cronos never landed a Ha'tak in that episode. There was a pyramid on the planet with rings, which SG-1 and the robot SG-1 used to transport into orbit, where Cronos' Ha'tak was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Auralis
    Which leads to another problem with the scaling.
    If a ha'tak is 2000m wide, how come that in Camelot a ha'tak is smaller then a toilet class wide, if the supergate is below 2000m wide, and therefore the ori ship must be as well?
    A Ha'taks size has been inconsistent since they introduced them in season 1. The CGI artists scale the ships differently depending on the shots; for example, if they need to show a battle between an Earth ship and a Ha'tak, the Ha'tak looks massive. If they want to show a battle between a Ha'tak and the Ori, the Ha'tak is scaled down to make the Ori ship look more menacing.

    They established the size of the supergate in Beachhead at 300-400 meters in diameter. Each segment of the supergate was supposed to be about 10 meters in length. This allowed the Ori to send these segments through our stargates from their home galaxy, and the supergate would assemble itself in orbit.

    In Camelot the segment of the supergate Carter was on was at least 100 meters in length by itself, which would make the gate something like 3000-4000 meters in diameter; this is where continuity falls apart.

    Why would the second supergate be ten times bigger than the first? And how could the segments be 100+ meters in length and still fit through a Stargate in this galaxy?

    If you ignore those questions and accept that this supergate is actually 10 times bigger than the first, the scaling of the Ha'tak and O'Neill ships is accurate; the problem is that the Daedalus ships are too big now. If the Odyssey and Korolev were scaled correctly in that sequence, they'd barely be visible during the fight.

    So it all boils down to the size of the supergate; if they had followed continuity, it would have been 300-400 meters in diameters, and the Ha'tak and O'Neill class ships would be massive compared to it and the Ori ships.
    Personally, I think this would have been a better approach to the battle, since it would make the Ori ships look small and weak initially, but when they open up with the Ori mojo beams, which rip the good guys to shreds.
    Last edited by Jarnin; March 30th, 2006 at 01:40 AM.
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  16. #16
    Major General immhotep's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    yes your right, in reality the deadalus class should have been the same size as the toilets, with the oniel dwarfing everything, its by far the largest ship ever seen in stargate, 20X the size of a hatak, which makes it almost 20miles long and about 9miles high.
    BUt in this shot all three ship classes were dwarfed by the orii ships, all appearing alkesh size...a stupendous screwup in scalling. As i have said the oneil should have been able to fit the entire allied fleet between it 'legs' + the super gate and the enemy with no trouble atall yet it looked as big as the deadalus!

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  17. #17
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by immhotep
    yes your right, in reality the deadalus class should have been the same size as the toilets, with the oniel dwarfing everything, its by far the largest ship ever seen in stargate, 20X the size of a hatak, which makes it almost 20miles long and about 9miles high.
    By your estimations, it'd be 32.2 kilometers long, and 14 kilometers high, roughly 15 times larger than what it should be.

    The O'Neill is only slightly larger than a Bilskirnir class ship, which have been scaled at about 1750 meters in length. That means that the O'Neill class ships are nearing 2 kilometers, but are far smaller than you assumed.
    Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

    1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    This is a quite interesting post from bruce about Hive ship sizes:

    http://board.thescifiworld.net/viewt...858f033d49bfc4

    11km long ...

  19. #19
    Chief Master Sergeant Lex Reekie's Avatar
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    Default Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Uh, Cronos never landed a Ha'tak in that episode. There was a pyramid on the planet with rings, which SG-1 and the robot SG-1 used to transport into orbit, where Cronos' Ha'tak was.
    ...Sorry Jarnin, he does land the Ha'tak, it's the vesy last thing you see, right at the end as it fades to the credits!

    Was the "Pyramid" definatly visable as a pyramid? Maybe the Ha'tak landed on a tetrahedron?

  20. #20
    Major Peoples_General's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: scaling SG-Universe's ships with real life ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Auralis
    This is a quite interesting post from bruce about Hive ship sizes:

    http://board.thescifiworld.net/viewt...858f033d49bfc4

    11km long ...
    If Wraith hive ships are over 11km, than just how big are the BC/DSC-304s?

    Or if you wanna dig a lil deeper... they said that it was ORIGINALLY, 11km long. Meaning that they must've scaled it down, if the 304s are about 450m long.

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