What strategy is left for the MW? - Aftermath of Camelot

[deadman]

Why was it that the combined forces of the Milkyway just sat there when the Ori came out of the gate?

They should have done some Napolean type stuff. Have maybe 25% of their ships in front of the Beach Head, and when the Ori began to fire, have the rest exit hyperspace from behind where the Ori ships couldn't fire weapons and have all weapons target a single point on one of the ships. That would in theory destroy their shields and take the ship out.

[ancientaction]

i really think the nox should help. i mean, they seam to be real good at clocking things....

but yea. there should have been more there to fight the ori ships, and ... they should have been practacing something called "EVASIVE MANUVERS"

[Auralis]

I agree, it was a tactical desaster.
They should have taking position around the gate, maybe even behind it, if one can fire through an opeen wormhole from the aft side, then wait and start firing the moment the first ships comes out. With everyone firing at tha single ship.
And also imediatly start to move around, not sit there like deers cought in a headlight.

Maybe it would have destroyed the first ori ship, which in return would have made it easier to destroy the following ships since they would get caught in the explosion of the first. Plus it might have made the gate switch its location and shutdown.

But just sitting there and get plaster was a surefire way to get assraped.
No matter how powerfull the ori ships realy are, that tactical blunder made them worse by a long shot.
Oh and can we realy have our super dupe rmissiles explode prio to get smeared across every known shield in the universe?

Stupidity killed our ships, not ori awesomeness.

[Peoples_General]

I agree, it was a tactical desaster.
They should have taking position around the gate, maybe even behind it, if one can fire through an opeen wormhole from the aft side, then wait and start firing the moment the first ships comes out. With everyone firing at tha single ship.
And also imediatly start to move around, not sit there like deers cought in a headlight.

Maybe it would have destroyed the first ori ship, which in return would have made it easier to destroy the following ships since they would get caught in the explosion of the first. Plus it might have made the gate switch its location and shutdown.

But just sitting there and get plaster was a surefire way to get assraped.
No matter how powerfull the ori ships realy are, that tactical blunder made them worse by a long shot.
Oh and can we realy have our super dupe rmissiles explode prio to get smeared across every known shield in the universe?

Stupidity killed our ships, not ori awesomeness.

Nah, a combination of stupidity, and Ori awesomeness made the slaughter even worse (as well as fun to watch).

But I suspect that in S10...

Spoiler:

Bratac will use tactics, but we'll still loose. To further reinforce Ori PWN4GE.

[ancientaction]

we should have had a better tatic yes to fight the ori, not sit there like "uh, whats going on eh?"

[aAnubiSs]

Maybe the writers should use their USAF advisor to stop making the SG-universe military seem like they're trying to lose.

[Auralis]

Amen,
So far the battle against the ori ships did not made me think they are the most powerfull ships ever. It made me think that we are to stupid to fight with our ships instead.
I mean, Anubisis supership hat more firepower then those. it blew ha'taks left and right out of the sky even faster then the toilets of doom.

[ancientaction]

the ToDs dind't apear to monuver correclty, but damn, like i said "whats going on eh?"

[aAnubiSs]

Maybe the Ori care about the universe and don't want to waste more energy than necessary This way they fired at low level settings and estimated how much energy they'd have to waste destroying our puny vessels.

Both the Ha'tak vessels and Asgard vessel used evasive measures, from which we can deduct Earth really isn't that smart and don't have the ability to learn from other races.

What I found most sad was that the Tau'ri took control over the whole MW-fleet when they arrived. Shouldn't the Asgard with the most powerful ship in our fleet, and with the most technological knowledge and the best standard military ship-ship engagement tactics take command?

Also, why didn't the Ha'tak use remote controlled Death Gliders at high PSL to do suicide runs, they would do several magnitues more damage than the Ha'tak bolts. Why didn't they prepare high PSL rock throwing like the Wraith did in The Siege?

The Ori Toilets had very unarmored sublight engines, so if they broke through the shields that is what I'd like to hit. Either that or the main weapon emitter.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Maybe the Ori care about the universe and don't want to waste more energy than necessary This way they fired at low level settings and estimated how much energy they'd have to waste destroying our puny vessels.

Both the Ha'tak vessels and Asgard vessel used evasive measures, from which we can deduct Earth really isn't that smart and don't have the ability to learn from other races.

What I found most sad was that the Tau'ri took control over the whole MW-fleet when they arrived. Shouldn't the Asgard with the most powerful ship in our fleet, and with the most technological knowledge and the best standard military ship-ship engagement tactics take command?

Also, why didn't the Ha'tak use remote controlled Death Gliders at high PSL to do suicide runs, they would do several magnitues more damage than the Ha'tak bolts. Why didn't they prepare high PSL rock throwing like the Wraith did in The Siege?

The Ori Toilets had very unarmored sublight engines, so if they broke through the shields that is what I'd like to hit. Either that or the main weapon emitter.

Deathglider engine drives take intertia out of the equation, which means they can manipulate mass. Which means, even at full speed, the Gliders have a lot less kinetic energy than they could have. Suicide runs would have done nothing.

I agree that the battle strategy was foolhardy. The fleet probably wished to hit the Ori ships with as much ordnance as possible from a distance, a strategy requiring relatively little movement in it's most basic incarnation. Less movement means less power to the engines and more power for weapons and shields.

However, we should have had our ships moving the second the gate activated, not just sitting in front of it. Moving targets firing constantly would, in the long run of the battle, be far more effective than just sitting there.

I'm considering writing a round-robin "fanfiction", wherein each poster will assume command of one of the ships at the Battle of the Supergate, and show what they would have done differently. However, even with all their firepower, I doubt we could destroy one of those Ori ships even if we were moving around quickly.

Which leaves one possibility. The Ori ships are massive. Their shields extend just far enough away from the hull, for a starship to jump into. It would be a very risky manuever, but we have few other viable tactics.

[aAnubiSs]

Powering down the DG before striking the Ori ships would return the real massa value. Granted that would, I guess with the handwavium mass-lightening, reduce the velocity gained by the mass-lightening/inertial dampeners.However this velocity would be a minor change when compared to the 40-80PSL a Ha'tak is capable of.

Lets say a powered down DG has a mass of 1000kg(very low number). Seeing that we have two numbers for the Ha'tak, depening on which method they used to accelerate/deccelerate in S04E22 we'll have .2*9E19 to .4*9E19, which is ~4.3GT to 8.6GT (forumla: .5mv2 Joule)

[Heaven]

all they had to do is build an Iris and go home

[Machine Messiah]

Saying that the MW fleet should have gone behind the supergate, and fired at the ori vessels from behind is not taking hindsight into account.

1. The SGC didn't know the weapons fired from the front of the vessel (unlike we did)
2. The SGC didn't know how fast these ships would be able to travel, I mean they are freakin Ori ships, would you expect an earth ship to be able to chase down an Asgard ship? No, and these guys are more advanced than that. So they would want to catch them head-on before they could plough through our galaxy unhindered.

[Auralis]

That was nothing to do with hindsight, that has to do with tactic.
One does NOT sit there, waiting for the enemy to showup, position themselfs. Especialy not with an enemy you know for a fact can be talked with at all.
Therefore, you position yourself as best as the situation allows, which is NOT in the flight path, and start firing without holding back the second the first ship starts to show up in the gate.

[Bragi]

They're thinking.............................................

"Do these BDU's make me look fat? We should really go to form-fitting one-piece jumpsuits like they have in Star Trek. That would be much better."

And that is why the battle plan was bungled.

[caskin]

My mom's witty little theory is that the Ori waited until they knew we had changed the control crystal, therefore knowing that there must be some ships waiting around outside the supergate. It was only then that they decided to activate it.

But that's my mom...

I'm just gonna have to agree with you guys that it was a great folly on the MW fleets part to just sit there and gape while these Ori ships opened up and nearly blasted them to bits.

[knowles2]

infact this what I would done in the battle,
I would of sent one ship yes one ship, with the puddle jumper and that ZPM which was rig to explode as soon as we use it.

We deploy the asguard oneil class war ship and wait for the ori to show up, of cause samatha would muck around with the crystals, until the ori showed, then the asguard would beam her back on broad and beam the ZPM in the cloak puddle jumber out into space, where it would wait auto pilot until the ori fleet showed up and the bang, a explosion that can take out a entire solar system ought to the the job perfectly, and if they survive that then we really are in trouble, and of cause the asguard would get out of their before it explode.

[Machine Messiah]

That was nothing to do with hindsight, that has to do with tactic.
One does NOT sit there, waiting for the enemy to showup, position themselfs. Especialy not with an enemy you know for a fact can be talked with at all.
Therefore, you position yourself as best as the situation allows, which is NOT in the flight path, and start firing without holding back the second the first ship starts to show up in the gate.

Errr, buddy, go look up hindsight, because most of the stuff you guys have suggested in this thread is based on knowledge gathered from watching earlier episodes (e.g Crusade), which the SGC clearly did not have.

My two examples still stand perfectly fine after what you said, you just didn't READ what I wrote, try again my friend.

[aAnubiSs]

a TACTIC is taking advantage of situations that develop on a battlefield. A STATEGY is the overall intial battleplan.

Strategy: "We will attack them by flanking them from three sides"
Tactic: "They are concentrating their defence against our right side. If we move now our left side can move around them and attack them from behind"

Both their strat and tact were flawed.

Strat:
1.They seemed to know which side the vessels would exit the gate from, so we can't blame that.
2. Spreading out your vessels forces your enemy to maneuver.

Tact:
1. Once we noticed their main weapon was fixed forward we should've moved behind them, at which point we would be faced with either of two situation:
1.1 One or more of the ships would do a 180. at which point they can't fire into the gate, but we might still be able to fire through the EH. This would also expose their engines to the other vessels in the Allied fleet.
1.2 The vessels wouldn't turn, at which point part of our fleet wouldn't have to face their main armarment.
2. Once we noticed that their shields were holding we should've done a 'time on target' from all of our ships focused on one of theirs.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

a TACTIC is taking advantage of situations that develop on a battlefield. A STATEGY is the overall intial battleplan.

Strategy: "We will attack them by flanking them from three sides"
Tactic: "They are concentrating their defence against our right side. If we move now our left side can move around them and attack them from behind"

Both their strat and tact were flawed.

Strat:
1.They seemed to know which side the vessels would exit the gate from, so we can't blame that.
2. Spreading out your vessels forces your enemy to maneuver.

Tact:
1. Once we noticed their main weapon was fixed forward we should've moved behind them, at which point we would be faced with either of two situation:
1.1 One or more of the ships would do a 180. at which point they can't fire into the gate, but we might still be able to fire through the EH. This would also expose their engines to the other vessels in the Allied fleet.
1.2 The vessels wouldn't turn, at which point part of our fleet wouldn't have to face their main armarment.
2. Once we noticed that their shields were holding we should've done a 'time on target' from all of our ships focused on one of theirs.

2a One way to do this would be to use our Asgard beaming technology to beam multiple warheads into range of the enemy ships, and detonate them the moment they rematerialized.
2.1And if we still can't dent their shields, we'd need to find a way around them. A hyperspace jump through their sheilds, for instance.