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Thread: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    I'm just wondering, based on what we've seen, whether the Atlantis Ancients were in some way less powerful than the final non-ascended forms of the Milky Way Ancients. Apart from the difference in technology appearance, the Pegasus Ancients appear to use directed energy weapons, the squid-of-death, and thats about it. They still had Atlantis as their main base and PJ's as their main transport/exploration ship even though both were millions of years old by the time the final battle with the Wraith came. They also had to research ascension.

    As opposed to the Milky Way Ancients, who have trans-galatic comm tech, galaxy destroying tech (Dakara, albeit with Stargate assistance), as well as more plentiful ZPM's, and more powerful weapons (Atlantis defence, squid swarm, the same defence was considered adequete for a Mily Way outpost, and a Ancient designed weapon devastated an entire planet by misfiring.) Additionally, the Milky Way Ancients created the headgrabber information download device, which appears totally unknown to the Pegasus Ancients.
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  2. #2
    Second Lieutenant BlackBaron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ancient
    I'm just wondering, based on what we've seen, whether the Atlantis Ancients were in some way less powerful than the final non-ascended forms of the Milky Way Ancients. Apart from the difference in technology appearance, the Pegasus Ancients appear to use directed energy weapons, the squid-of-death, and thats about it. They still had Atlantis as their main base and PJ's as their main transport/exploration ship even though both were millions of years old by the time the final battle with the Wraith came. They also had to research ascension.

    As opposed to the Milky Way Ancients, who have trans-galatic comm tech, galaxy destroying tech (Dakara, albeit with Stargate assistance), as well as more plentiful ZPM's, and more powerful weapons (Atlantis defence, squid swarm, the same defence was considered adequete for a Mily Way outpost, and a Ancient designed weapon devastated an entire planet by misfiring.) Additionally, the Milky Way Ancients created the headgrabber information download device, which appears totally unknown to the Pegasus Ancients.

    Didn't they build the weapon at Dakara before the built Atlantis?
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  3. #3
    Captain Steve_the_Wraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    The Atlantis ancients are the Milky Way ancients with a couple of million years added on

    Earth as an outpost has one drone launcher - Atlantis has 3 (out of ammo but still)



    There have been more ZPMs found in Pegasus than tin the MW (3 in the city, the one in Childhoods End, the one in Brotherhood and
    Spoiler:
    one more in Coup d'État
    ) (all depleted)

    There have been 3 found in the MW (Lost City, Zero Hour, Moebius) (all but one depleted)
    http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3609/atlantis2os2.jpg

  4. #4
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBaron
    Didn't they build the weapon at Dakara before the built Atlantis?
    Who knows, Atlantis left several million years ago, its entirely possible they built it afterwards.

    Plus, think of it on a basic level. Pegasus Ancients couldn't beat the Wraith, given the capabilities of O'Neil (not an Ancient), with a couple of days of the (distinctly Mily Way only) headsucker knowledge, turned out a weapon that would (had it not been for Replicarter) have utterly wiped out the Replicators, who in turn, could have easily eaten the Wraith.

    If the Wraith had invaded the Milky Way, in my opinion, it would've been all of a few days before they were disintergrated from existence.
    -I was, am, and will be, Aeon9570 (if I ever remember the password)-
    -You want to mess with the Ancients? Please update your will...-
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  5. #5
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_the_Wraith
    The Atlantis ancients are the Milky Way ancients with a couple of million years added on
    We don't know exactly when the Milky Way Ancients ascended, and, in addition, the Atlantis Ancient's, until the Wraith War, appear to have made zero technical progress between their leaving and the Wraith attack, with millions of years in between.

    Further, Milky Way Ancients in statis last millions of years, Atlantis Ancients won't even last thousands.

    Milky Way Ancients also appear to have possessed formidable TK and TP powers, these alone would've shredded the Wraith had the Atlantis Ancients possessed them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_the_Wraith
    Earth as an outpost has one drone launcher - Atlantis has 3 (out of ammo but still)
    Atlantis is a huge city, Earth's outpost isn't even the size of a single tower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_the_Wraith
    There have been more ZPMs found in Pegasus than tin the MW (3 in the city, the one in Childhoods End, the one in Brotherhood and
    Spoiler:
    one more in Coup d'État
    ) (all depleted)

    There have been 3 found in the MW (Lost City, Zero Hour, Moebius) (all but one depleted)
    Actaully, that would be 4, there were two in Lost City.

    And in any case, its hardly an indication of advancement, the Atlantis team started with three and has been actively looking for them, the SG-1 team didn't know of their existence until Lost City, and is far less free to explore the Milky Way, and, without an equivilant to the Atlantis database, no idea where to look.

    Bearing in mind also that the Milky Way Ancients appear to have ascended at some point earlier than Atlantis ones (who hadn't managed even 10k years ago), the odds of finding them are reduced quite a bit.
    -I was, am, and will be, Aeon9570 (if I ever remember the password)-
    -You want to mess with the Ancients? Please update your will...-
    -S/J, you cannot stop it, it is not 'possible', it just is.-

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant AscendedWarrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    To me it seems like the MW ancients ascended first, then the others left for Atlantis. And those who left for atlantis lost a lot of knowledge when the MW ancients asended.

    I just wonder what they did in atlantis, they must have researched some new technology under the thousands of years they were there before the wraith appeared. For now we only know they tried to develop new weapons when the wraith had already appeared.

  7. #7
    First Lieutenant theStormWeaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ancient
    Who knows, Atlantis left several million years ago, its entirely possible they built it afterwards.

    Plus, think of it on a basic level. Pegasus Ancients couldn't beat the Wraith, given the capabilities of O'Neil (not an Ancient), with a couple of days of the (distinctly Mily Way only) headsucker knowledge, turned out a weapon that would (had it not been for Replicarter) have utterly wiped out the Replicators, who in turn, could have easily eaten the Wraith.

    If the Wraith had invaded the Milky Way, in my opinion, it would've been all of a few days before they were disintergrated from existence.
    The reason the reps would have been anhilated is because they have one, crippling weakness, and thats how they operate. The fact that they are dozens of individual components working together makes them vulnerable to any device/weapon that can permanently shutdown the communication between them. The Wraith on the other hand don't have such a devestateing weakness. The Wraith are far more resilient. The Ancients were NEVER a warring people, thats why they weren't prepared to fight a war against an enemy like the Wraith. Thats why, no matter the era, they would lose. But the reps would be defeated because they can't feed on warships that don't exist. So, yeah.

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by theStormWeaver
    The reason the reps would have been anhilated is because they have one, crippling weakness, and thats how they operate. The fact that they are dozens of individual components working together makes them vulnerable to any device/weapon that can permanently shutdown the communication between them. The Wraith on the other hand don't have such a devestateing weakness. The Wraith are far more resilient. The Ancients were NEVER a warring people, thats why they weren't prepared to fight a war against an enemy like the Wraith. Thats why, no matter the era, they would lose. But the reps would be defeated because they can't feed on warships that don't exist. So, yeah.
    Actually, the Rep's can eat organic matter, witness the Asguard planet turned Repli-ball.

    And, remeber, O'Neill's disruptor and the Asguard larger version worked on a principle described as the same as the Dakara weapon, just fine tuned (hence why Dakara could be retuned to act like the hand-held one).

    Thus, with the ancient repository in the MW, IMO, the Ancients would've simply stuck a ship mounted version on ships and/or satellites, Wraith turn up, zap, Wraith ships disintergrate.

    And the Ancients in the Milky Way appear to be far more ready to build weapons etc before they ascended than the Atlantis ones.

    I personally think the Atlantis expedition was a small group of Ancients on a simple mission, the Ancient equivilant of a scouting expedition, nowhere near equal to the mainstream of Ancient technology.

    Simply adding together a few of the technologies the MW Ancients exhibited would've produced a ship capable of wiping out the Wraith with the Ancients not having to do anything except tell it what to kill. Then leave it and watch.
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    -You want to mess with the Ancients? Please update your will...-
    -S/J, you cannot stop it, it is not 'possible', it just is.-

  9. #9
    Major Prior_of_the_Ori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Slight difference though between the wraith and replicators weaknesses is that the replicators are a machine race who utilise energy as a primary component of their being. Energy being something the Ancients specialised in understanding. From the show while the Ancients were advanced it didnt seem like they focused so much in biological sciences as they did on energy.

    I also think that perhaps the Alteran Ancients were perhaps a bit more advanced as when the Atlanteans left they must have been desperate and tried everything they knew. Usually desperation can be quite a motivation factor into doing nearly anything.


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    'Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil. In the name of the Gods, ships shall be built to carry the warriors out among the stars and we will spread Origin to all the unbelievers. The power of the Ori will be felt far and wide and the wicked shall be vanquished' -


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  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Gate Master's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Speaking of less powerful how come the one woman that was found buried in the ice was supposed to be on the path to ascention and taking account of the time scales involved had she not being fronzen would have ascended millions of years before the others, yet the ancients on atlantis were still researching it.

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant AscendedWarrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Most of the people that did ascend had evolved to that point. They reasearched it to let everyone ascend. And have anybody noticed that, like Prior_of_the_Ori said, the ancients didn't seem to be so advanced in biology and chemistry. Like some of the other races we have encountered.

  12. #12
    Major Peoples_General's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Its possible that the Ascension Research went on long before Atlantis left for Pegasus. Meaning that Atlantis was still in the Milky Way when they were researching Ascension for who knows how long. So some of them may have already reached that level like Ayaina.

  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant Gate Master's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peoples_General
    Its possible that the Ascension Research went on long before Atlantis left for Pegasus. Meaning that Atlantis was still in the Milky Way when they were researching Ascension for who knows how long. So some of them may have already reached that level like Ayaina.
    Its cerainly possible but the time scales involved are very strange and I hope we get some clarification on this from the show at some point in the future, as well as why O'neil had the healing power just from using the repository of knowledge

  14. #14
    Second Lieutenant AscendedWarrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    O'neill already had the healing power, the knowledge he gained made him able to control it. Thats what i think.

  15. #15
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prior_of_the_Ori
    Slight difference though between the wraith and replicators weaknesses is that the replicators are a machine race who utilise energy as a primary component of their being. Energy being something the Ancients specialised in understanding. From the show while the Ancients were advanced it didnt seem like they focused so much in biological sciences as they did on energy.
    My main issue with this is that the original Dakara weapon simply erased everything, including organic life, the anti-Replicator gun was a derivation of that design, not vice verse, mount a foward pointing Dakara unit on a ship, point it at the enemy fleet.
    -I was, am, and will be, Aeon9570 (if I ever remember the password)-
    -You want to mess with the Ancients? Please update your will...-
    -S/J, you cannot stop it, it is not 'possible', it just is.-

  16. #16
    Major newtrekker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ancient
    I'm just wondering, based on what we've seen, whether the Atlantis Ancients were in some way less powerful than the final non-ascended forms of the Milky Way Ancients. Apart from the difference in technology appearance, the Pegasus Ancients appear to use directed energy weapons, the squid-of-death, and thats about it. They still had Atlantis as their main base and PJ's as their main transport/exploration ship even though both were millions of years old by the time the final battle with the Wraith came. They also had to research ascension.

    As opposed to the Milky Way Ancients, who have trans-galatic comm tech, galaxy destroying tech (Dakara, albeit with Stargate assistance), as well as more plentiful ZPM's, and more powerful weapons (Atlantis defence, squid swarm, the same defence was considered adequete for a Mily Way outpost, and a Ancient designed weapon devastated an entire planet by misfiring.) Additionally, the Milky Way Ancients created the headgrabber information download device, which appears totally unknown to the Pegasus Ancients.

    Didn't the Ancients return to the Milky Way after they lost the war to the Wraith? That Dakara weapon was created to seed life in the Milky Way after the plague wiped out the original life that was there.

  17. #17
    Chief Master Sergeant An Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by newtrekker
    Didn't the Ancients return to the Milky Way after they lost the war to the Wraith? That Dakara weapon was created to seed life in the Milky Way after the plague wiped out the original life that was there.
    The Atlantis survivors popped out into an already Goa'uld dominated Earth, in small numbers, and appear to have lived out the rest of their days as mortals, they certainly didn't do any empire building or fighting at this point, the Dakara weapon had already been used and locked up long ago (given the prescence of Jaffa and the fact that Dakara was where Jaffa were first made years before that).
    -I was, am, and will be, Aeon9570 (if I ever remember the password)-
    -You want to mess with the Ancients? Please update your will...-
    -S/J, you cannot stop it, it is not 'possible', it just is.-

  18. #18
    Major newtrekker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ancient
    The Atlantis survivors popped out into an already Goa'uld dominated Earth, in small numbers, and appear to have lived out the rest of their days as mortals, they certainly didn't do any empire building or fighting at this point, the Dakara weapon had already been used and locked up long ago (given the prescence of Jaffa and the fact that Dakara was where Jaffa were first made years before that).
    They might have helped in the rebellion. We don't really know when the used the Dakara weapon to seed life in the Milky Way.

  19. #19
    Major Prior_of_the_Ori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by newtrekker
    They might have helped in the rebellion. We don't really know when the used the Dakara weapon to seed life in the Milky Way.
    I think the theory that some are going under is that the Atlanteans left MW galaxy for Pegasus leaving behind the Alteran Ancients who were suffering from the plague. These Ancients in desperation built numerous technologies to fight off the plague and failed. So they resigned themselves to death or ascension and built the Dakaran device before it happened to restart life in the galaxy. So when the Atlanteans returned the device was already used a long time ago.


    'Hallowed are the children of the Ori. CROWD: Hallowed are we. Hallowed are the Ori.' -

    'Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil. In the name of the Gods, ships shall be built to carry the warriors out among the stars and we will spread Origin to all the unbelievers. The power of the Ori will be felt far and wide and the wicked shall be vanquished' -


    Contribute to the Stargate Wiki a source for any information on the Stargate universe from the books, RPG to games and comics.

  20. #20
    Sam’s Uneven Parallel Bars
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    Default Re: Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_the_Wraith
    The Atlantis ancients are the Milky Way ancients with a couple of million years added on

    Earth as an outpost has one drone launcher - Atlantis has 3 (out of ammo but still)



    There have been more ZPMs found in Pegasus than tin the MW (3 in the city, the one in Childhoods End, the one in Brotherhood and
    Spoiler:
    one more in Coup d'État
    ) (all depleted)

    There have been 3 found in the MW (Lost City, Zero Hour, Moebius) (all but one depleted)
    The one introduced by Camalus in Zero Hour wasn't depleted, it was booby trapped.

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