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Thread: The Long Goodbye (216)

  1. #81
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Also having only two marines to guard the ZPM was incredibly stupid, especially considering the recent trouble with the Trust and with the Wraith capable of beaming in when they attack (Remember how in season 1 they knocked out a generator in The Seige Part 2?). Not locking down sections of the city immediately to force Weir and Sheppard into confined areas was another idiotic mistake by the expedition team that I would have expected Caldwell to think of. This is the first episode where he has also been "infected" with the "stupid syndrome".

  2. #82
    Major GatetheWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Having Ronon act so stupidly was IMO a big step back for his character.

    It really ruins that great part in Runner where Ronon is holding Sheppard's P-90 and Sheppard starts to explain that it's dangerous then Ronon expertly coackes it (or whatever one does with a P-90). That scene just flat out said "I'm much smarter then you think I am".

    It was so out of character for Ronon to fall for the alien pretending to be Sheppard when Caldwell specifically told him and Teyla Sheppard and Weir were not to be trusted. I actually thought for a time that Ronon had a plan of his own to use Shep to catch Weir then take both of them out at once but no such luck.
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  3. #83

    Heart Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Micronaut
    No, instead of the "trouble/anomaly/bad guy" of the week formula, they need to start with a personal situation and integrate that crisis into a story that helps the character(s) deal with their own internal problems in the context of the environment. The producers need to encourage the writers to start with the characters and give them an emotional (stress, love, sex, jelousy, inadequacy, fear, hate, etc... just about any emotional imbalance) or personal issue (McKay misses his cat, Sheppard tries to play football, Weir needs to get laid, Ronan needs toothpaste, etc.) and intertwine that little story into a big bad crisis. There is so much that can be done with the Atlantis environment that it is a serious waste of time, talent, and effort to be popping out formulaic action eps... they have vast riches of real drama that can be mined, and it is sad that all they are digging up is pathetic little nuggets from the past...
    Yes! Thank you. Did you ever hit the nail on the head....

    I would love love looooooveeee to to see the writers develop stories that way. When I discussed it in another forum, however, I was told that the writers don't work together in a way that encourages continuity and that Atlantis isn't a "soap opera".
    I don't want a soap opera. I'd just like to see the stories use the characters and develop them, etc.

    Take Atlantis as it's been written lately and you could insert any old cast of characters. It wouldn't matter a hill of beans, because the plots barely utilize personalities or grow them or change them.
    I hope too that that will start to change with Season 3 or sooner.

  4. #84
    First Lieutenant PartyLikeIts1984's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Here's another question, that, yes is nitpicky, but....still....

    If Alien!Wier had access to all of her memories she would know what a kick ass-fighter Shep is, right? And know that he is very in shape and military trained, right? So why the hell would she decide to put her worst enemy in that kind of weapon if she wanted to kill him? Wouldn't it have been better to put him in, say, Beckett? No offense to the Doc, but he's nowhere near as fit as fit as Shep and knows very little about the layout of the city. It would have put him at a *huge* disadvantage to her, and from what we saw she's not exactly all noble or anything. It's not like she had tons of morals about making it a fair fight.

    And it would have been cool seeing Beckett in commando mode.

  5. #85
    Major xfkirsten's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyLikeIts1984
    Here's another question, that, yes is nitpicky, but....still....

    If Alien!Wier had access to all of her memories she would know what a kick ass-fighter Shep is, right? And know that he is very in shape and military trained, right? So why the hell would she decide to put her worst enemy in that kind of weapon if she wanted to kill him? Wouldn't it have been better to put him in, say, Beckett? No offense to the Doc, but he's nowhere near as fit as fit as Shep and knows very little about the layout of the city. It would have put him at a *huge* disadvantage to her, and from what we saw she's not exactly all noble or anything. It's not like she had tons of morals about making it a fair fight.

    And it would have been cool seeing Beckett in commando mode.
    Well, as Caldwell mentioned, Sheppard and Weir knew the city better than anyone. As far as military training goes, Thalan would still retain his own training anyways, so I don't think that was a big concern. If she picked Beckett, he'd still have Thalan's military training. Plus, I got the impression that Phoebus kind of enjoyed the chase.
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  6. #86
    Second Lieutenant Quinn Mallory's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    I'm a bit disappointed by this episode. While still entertaining, the team was just behaving too much like a chicken who lost its head in the first few moments of losing both Weir and Sheppard. Additionally, it was also absurd that they allowed this to happen at all (although it is definitely more interesting this way).

    Anyway, the glowing part of the guns were distracting and a pretty stupid designs that really bothered me. Ronan also was fooled way too easily but I guess it just to show how much he had opened up to trust Sheppard now. Teyla had a good moment for the first time in awhile, which was good. The acting was also a plus...once you get over the silliness of the plot.
    I just love shows about wormholes!

  7. #87

    Heart Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Micronaut
    Great point... having the two lead actors compromised obviously comes from the days when the Captain beamed down with the landing party... in all fairness, having two "red shirts" go through this would not have been as interesting, but it might have worked with one lead and one recurring character (imagine one of the aliens inside Zelenka instead of Sheppard... or Weir...)... much more unpredictable dynamic.

    I think if Weir had kissed Zelenka like that, he might've passed out. Or maybe he would've just kissed her back...
    Either way, it would have been very entertaining to see.
    It's a shame the writers always take the predictable route.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyLikeIts1984
    Here's another question, that, yes is nitpicky, but....still....

    If Alien!Wier had access to all of her memories she would know what a kick ass-fighter Shep is, right? And know that he is very in shape and military trained, right? So why the hell would she decide to put her worst enemy in that kind of weapon if she wanted to kill him? Wouldn't it have been better to put him in, say, Beckett? No offense to the Doc, but he's nowhere near as fit as fit as Shep and knows very little about the layout of the city. It would have put him at a *huge* disadvantage to her, and from what we saw she's not exactly all noble or anything. It's not like she had tons of morals about making it a fair fight.

    And it would have been cool seeing Beckett in commando mode.

    But that's no fun from a hunter's standpoint. It would be like the Wraith using Zelenka for a Runner instead of Ronon; there's no joy in the chase. She didn't just want to kill him, she wanted to hunt him down in a situation where he had a fighting chance and see the look of defeat on his face when he lost. She didn't just want to kill him, she wanted to beat him, and it's no fun beating someone who doesn't provide a proper challenge.

  9. #89
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by xfkirsten
    Well, as Caldwell mentioned, Sheppard and Weir knew the city better than anyone. As far as military training goes, Thalan would still retain his own training anyways, so I don't think that was a big concern. If she picked Beckett, he'd still have Thalan's military training. Plus, I got the impression that Phoebus kind of enjoyed the chase.
    Yeah, I don't really think it would have mattered who they chose. They still had their own training. For example, Weir, by herself, would have been ripped apart by Lorne's men. Where as Phoebus can take care of herself, as we saw.

  10. #90
    First Lieutenant AutumnDream's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyLikeIts1984
    Here's another question, that, yes is nitpicky, but....still....

    If Alien!Wier had access to all of her memories she would know what a kick ass-fighter Shep is, right? And know that he is very in shape and military trained, right? So why the hell would she decide to put her worst enemy in that kind of weapon if she wanted to kill him? Wouldn't it have been better to put him in, say, Beckett? No offense to the Doc, but he's nowhere near as fit as fit as Shep and knows very little about the layout of the city. It would have put him at a *huge* disadvantage to her, and from what we saw she's not exactly all noble or anything. It's not like she had tons of morals about making it a fair fight.

    And it would have been cool seeing Beckett in commando mode.

    Because Damian Kindler thought, "Wee! I can make Weir and Sheppard kiss with absolutely no consequences or long-lasting effect in the Atlantis canon, just like I was ordered to do by the gods of discontinuity!" and consequently overlooked all potential problems with the plan in blind pursuit of the idea.

    Just a theory.

    (Looks like the fans are really up in arms now. Come save us, Martin! And christ, let the other writers read this thread "cover to cover".)

  11. #91
    First Lieutenant PartyLikeIts1984's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Why doesn't Chuck have a name yet? Seriously, he's been in at least 10 episodes this season alone...

    Even he's confused as to why he's still "Technician."

  12. #92
    Sam’s Uneven Parallel Bars
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Would two human civilizations readily go to war with each other when a polarizing force such as the Wraith wants to destroy them both? We didn't see any Asgard internal struggles because they were fighting the Replicators, the Go'uld would rally together to defeat any human civilization capable of defending themselves against a single system lord, Soviet reformers faced several difficulties in making reforms because Soviet hardliners would crop up whenever the US shifted to harsher rhetoric towards the Soviets, and the current prime minister of Iran thanked the current US president for his election victory. I don't buy the idea that two advanced human civilizations would risk war with each other unless their evolution timeline significantly predates the Wraith aswell.

  13. #93
    Major xfkirsten's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by DetriusXii
    Would two human civilizations readily go to war with each other when a polarizing force such as the Wraith wants to destroy them both? We didn't see any Asgard internal struggles because they were fighting the Replicators, the Go'uld would rally together to defeat any human civilization capable of defending themselves against a single system lord, Soviet reformers faced several difficulties in making reforms because Soviet hardliners would crop up whenever the US shifted to harsher rhetoric towards the Soviets, and the current prime minister of Iran thanked the current US president for his election victory. I don't buy the idea that two advanced human civilizations would risk war with each other unless their evolution timeline significantly predates the Wraith aswell.
    It could have happened during a time when the Wraith were in hibernation, thus at least lessening the risk of attack from the Wraith.
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  14. #94
    Major GatetheWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Aren't there big chunks of time when the Wraith are asleep, 300 years or so? That should be enough time for generations to build civilizations and wage their own wars without interfearance from the Wraith. Most of the time when different parties band together despite their differences it is under a constant threat that always makes it's presence known. With generations of time passing between cullings, the humans of certain planets could easily get too comfortable and start fighting over they're own differences.
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  15. #95
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by DetriusXii
    Would two human civilizations readily go to war with each other when a polarizing force such as the Wraith wants to destroy them both?

    One word...Genii. Governments and the people runnng them can be remarkably stupid at times.

  16. #96
    Chief Master Sergeant Cynicat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by alfirin_kirinki
    Wow. This episode was all about two people in love.

    Caldwell with Weir and McKay with Sheppard.

    All those angsty sighs! They're causing HURRICANES ON THE MAINLAND.
    LMAO It's like Atlantian chaos theory (butterfly/storm thing) - when there's angst in the city, the Athosians batten down the hatches...

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyLikeIts1984
    Why doesn't Chuck have a name yet? Seriously, he's been in at least 10 episodes this season alone...

    Even he's confused as to why he's still "Technician."
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    Poor, neglected little Chuck Although, how long did it take for Walter to get a name? We need a Chuck appreciation thread
    He's actually David Hewlett's stand-in (ie: someone of similar height and build to the actor and used for lighting, blocking, and back-of-head shots when neccessary).

  17. #97
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorka
    OMG I'm totaly in love with this episode...I can't help myself *loL*!

    It was ways better done like the last 7 (with leaving Critical Mass out..that one was great!)

    Torri was my favourite actress already before this episode...but after watching it I have to say...yes, she really IS a great actress. I mean compared to John's acting, he didn't convince me in one minute, that he's an other person well he wasn't under THAT much influence as Elizabeth, but there wasn't a slightest changes apart from what? one scene?But Torri did, from the first move, she did as Phoebus. It was a really great Elizabeth episode...and I really liked the end of it. Liz was quite girly acting in the last 3 minutes... that was a hint of Torri I guess, but really great!

    The storyline was quite interesting, but I think Sheppard just agreed too fast with doing it, they should have discussed it a bit longer, maybe so we can see that Caldwell was really AGAINST it!

    Caldwell was great too... he's not the bad guy anymore, I like how he changed after this whole Goaul'd thing - and he's really throwing in some Liz/John-stuff...already in Conversion and now too... I like him in the episodes...all my favourite episodes this season has been with him in it... and not only bc of him, the storyline was always great when he's there!

    What's else to say? hm, This is really one of my favourite episodes... not only this year... on my top 5 list!

    From the Liz/John-shipper point? THANk you sooo much for that really sweet kiss and the ending scene... I was melting in my seat while watching both! sweetly done!

    Technical point of view? Some really good DOP-work! I was amazed... made it more clear
    Do you mean Joe's acting wasn't convincing? As you mention Torri's wonderful acting and then say 'John's' didn't convince you. As John is a fictional character under alien influence, he doesn't 'act' in the show, Joe does. So I'm obviously a tad confused as to what you actually mean here.

  18. #98
    Captain Wyrminarrd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    While the battle between the two aliens was entertaining I´m still irked that the people involved allowed this to happen. Would it really have been that difficult to have but handcuffs on them or some other restraint?

    Plus given Earths history with the Goa´uld I find it incredibly hard to believe that they would just blithely trust someone who had taken over the mind of one of the top personel on the base just because it seemed like the host was speaking.

    Caldwell showed more or less the right moves though, I´m sure that not locking Weir and Sheppard out of the computers was more of a writers thing then anything you can blame him for.

    On the whole I´d give this episode 7/10, entertaining but nothing special.

  19. #99
    Chief Master Sergeant Beal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quite the pleasant surprise. When Phoebus asked Sheppard to be host to her husband I thought the episode would be a lovy dovy sanctuary type episode, hell I even considered not watching it, but just as I was about to change the channel they started talking about guards, and I just knew something was about to happen

  20. #100
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Linzi
    Do you mean Joe's acting wasn't convincing? As you mention Torri's wonderful acting and then say 'John's' didn't convince you. As John is a fictional character under alien influence, he doesn't 'act' in the show, Joe does. So I'm obviously a tad confused as to what you actually mean here.
    I obviously meant Joe...these two names are just too similar
    I really adore Joe and also John, but I think in this episode he didn't show enough facet as he may should have...sure it was also in the script, but it somehow was a too big claft between Phoebus and Halan... Phoebus was too evil but Halan still wanted to kill her too, but he was a bit...well unstable IMO. We get to knew her motives but all he was speaking of was just not to kill him... but nothing else... I don't know I just expected maybe a bit more character-developement from Halan's side!

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