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Is Gerak's Actions like a True Jaffa?

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    Is Gerak's Actions like a True Jaffa?

    I put forth this question because of the latest episodes in which we have learned about Gerak. Before Season 09, no one had even heard about this guy. Upon freeing the Jaffa people, Bretak and Teal'c were the leaders of the only rebelling group of Jaffa who had a viable armada of which to speak.

    1.) Legendary Status Not There:
    Now, suddenly we hear that this old guy has the militaristic might of several fleets formerly under Baal and Anubis and that he's more respected than the goodwill and almost legendary status afforded to both Bretak and Tealc. In almost every episode throughout the show's development in which Tealc was captured, A Gloating Jaffa would say, "And you must be the Shova named, Teal'c!" As if he transformed this shameful word as a badge of honor in recognizing that his reputation preceeds him.

    2.) Armada in his Hands?
    How did Gerak wind up with any Armada if the nexus of the entire Jaffa Rebellion started with the downfall of Baal's Fleet and Anubis in the later episode. All JAffa would have naturally followed Bretak's lead as it is expected within their culture to follow the "strong" because it is the honorable thing to do. Thus, the word of Tealc's Rebellion would have spread to the armies of other System Lords as Tealc and Bretak continue their march across System Lord Dominion. It stands to reason that no other single Jaffa would command such an Armada after the Gou ulds downfall. And it is without question that Tealc and Bretak had not only successfully led a Rebellion, but have Freed an entire Civilizations of People as a result...in addition bringing Tretonin to the newly freed JAffa. But we are told in 1 Episode this Guy is the MAN...okay, whatever? But Even So

    3.) Jaffa-like Pride or Cowardice? IF such a Jaffa would demand this much respect among the entire Republic, then would such a man/warrior ever acquiese and bowdown to the Ori as he had done?

    He defended the ORI slaughtering his own people during the Beach Head Incident during Council Deliberations. Would such a Leader, who once stated that not even the Tauri could be trusted, defend another race of people or beings in the midst of overwhelming proof?

    He Trembled upon hearing the prior admonish him like a punk a@@ boy when he chose not to slaughter Tealc & Company in the Fourth Horseman part I and begged the Prior for Forgiveness. Yet, his character is so brazen to threaten the Tauri / SG-1 with reprisal if they did not join him in attacking the Prior during the Beach Head Incident and was always suspicious of Tealc, the Tauri, and anoyone else who would pose a threat to his ever-growing power over the JAffa NAtion. Why would such a character change so suddenly...is this believable in your eyes?
    Last edited by shiznaw; 27 December 2005, 05:54 AM.

    #2
    Sounds like a hypocrite.

    Anyway, Teal'c and Bra'tac's armada was around Dakara, so that leaves...well, every where else in the galaxy. If Gerak was, say, on the other side of the galaxy, and led his fellow Jaffa to victory against whatever System Lord they served at the time, then they would value him. Also, if said system lord had a large armada, bigger than the rebel Jaffa's, then he will have the most ships, and so on and so forth. As such, he would have the most ships, and if he was lucky, the most Jaffa soldiers at his disposal.

    Like Teal'c said, Gerak embraces the old ways, which is (from what I can gather) "big military power = respect". The point is, the Rebel Jaffa is most likely in the minority, and the rest of the Jaffa are all into "the old ways", since they weren't part of the Rebel Jaffa movement until the system lords were vanquished. Therefore, with Gerak holding the largest amount of soldiers and ships, and most of the Jaffa still valuing the old ways, I'm not surprised that Gerak won the position of Leader.

    Lastly, I don't think all Jaffa are on tretonin, since they didn't want to launch the symbiote poison in Ex Deux Machina until it was absolutely necessary.

    Comment


      #3
      Well I think that what the above poster said is very true, but After his actions in The Fourth Hoseman 1 he won't be the leader much longer. Bra'tec will mostlikely take over although it should be Teal'c, but he can't so...

      Perfecto!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by PG15
        Sounds like a hypocrite.
        Anyway, Teal'c and Bra'tac's armada was around Dakara, so that leaves...well, every where else in the galaxy. If Gerak was, say, on the other side of the galaxy, and led his fellow Jaffa to victory against whatever System Lord they served at the time, then they would value him. Also, if said system lord had a large armada, bigger than the rebel Jaffa's, then he will have the most ships, and so on and so forth. As such, he would have the most ships, and if he was lucky, the most Jaffa soldiers at his disposal.
        1. The problem with that is not everyone else in the Galaxy initiated the Rebellion, took part in its subsequent Revolt, or even knew about it (season 9 Episode 5). The seeds of Rebellion were planted with Tealc & Bretak. No other formally trained "group" of Jaffa had the will or the means to resist in the Galaxy, except that of the Rebellion. If the entire Rebellion had begun with their Forces, then its only logical to deduce that other Armada's would follow suit in the Revolt once hearing about their success, but in the end, Tealc, Bretak, & Company would have been the "leaders" of the entire Rebellion spanning the Galaxy, no matter where they were.

        Lastly, I don't think all Jaffa are on tretonin, since they didn't want to launch the symbiote poison in Ex Deux Machina until it was absolutely necessary.
        2. Okay...I know that you're stating the obvious, but I think you're missing the context in which the statement was made. If Tealc & Company brought several 1000 Jaffa Tretonin upon realizing their Freedom, then its evident that Tealc would be afforded the political clout that the anyonomous Gerak now has.

        Comment


          #5
          I wanted to know what you guys had thought about the new guy, Gerak. We didn't know anything about him until this Season 9. And, now after the Fourth Horseman, IF such a Jaffa would demand this much respect among the entire Republic, then would such a man/warrior ever acquiese and bowdown to the Ori as he had done?

          He defended the ORI slaughtering his own people during the Beach Head Incident during Council Deliberations. Would such a Leader, who once stated that not even the Tauri could be trusted, defend another race of people or beings in the midst of overwhelming proof?

          He Trembled upon hearing the prior admonish him like a punk a@@ boy when he chose not to slaughter Tealc & Company in the Fourth Horseman part I and begged the Prior for Forgiveness. Yet, his character is so brazen to threaten the Tauri / SG-1 with reprisal if they did not join him in attacking the Prior during the Beach Head Incident and was always suspicious of Tealc, the Tauri, and anoyone else who would pose a threat to his ever-growing power over the JAffa NAtion. Why would such a character change so suddenly...is this believable in your eyes?
          Last edited by shiznaw; 28 December 2005, 08:46 AM. Reason: just fixing title

          Comment


            #6
            Gerak is an ass but he may turn out ok - stay tuned
            gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
            so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
            love Torri

            Comment


              #7
              All good points.

              However, I still think that, if Gerak had the larger army and number of ships (somehow), the majority of Jaffa, who valued the old ways, would've valued him more than the Rebel Jaffa. Also, it would be ludicrous to think that only the rebel Jaffa had doubts about the Goa'uld in their hearts. I'm sure there are others who were too scared to act, even when some of their brothers acted on those doubts. One of these could've been Gerak, who, when heard of the victory of the Rebellion, decides to finally act on those feelings of doubt since the danger was lower now.

              It's all speculation, of course.

              As for the Tretonin, we know that some Jaffa think that it makes them weak (Babylon), so even if Teal'c and Co. brought a bunch, they wouldn't necessarily think of it as a good thing.

              As for your "Gerak changes a lot" point, like I said, the man is two faced. Kiss up to the bad guys (Ori) while trying to act intimidating to the little people (us).

              So yes, it is believable in my eyes.

              Comment


                #8
                Gerak's actions are not actions of a true warrior but those of a true POLITICIAN. It is naturally for people like him to thrive in such political climat, especially after such troubled times like those of a rebellion (kudos for TPTB). The man was uknown to us until season 9 and made his way through the political arena like mushrooms do after a strong rain. The Rebellion was not the American Revolution. Life is rarelly very rarelly fare to those wothy.
                School is overrated.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I can understand you wanting to believe in the story line. I really want to believe in the possibility of Gerak's rising to claim too, but can you understand where i'm coming from. It just seems too rushed. Within 4 episodes, we have not only a new guy to have risen among the ranks to become a major political player on the scene, but he has managed to wield this "political clout" in a manner as to sway the Jaffa Reps into ruling as a Authoritarian Government, not a Democracy. In addition, he has become the de-facto head of this newly established Republic and has managed to nearly ostracize (spelling) Tealc & Company from the remaining leaders on the Council. Again, its too rushed.

                  With no real explanation or historical perspective of how he has managed to do this I believe his character has no true depth. Before the 4th Horseman, Part I, all Jaffa had spoken, behaved, fought, and even crapped honorably. Now with the introduction of this one character upon Season 9, we're asked to believe something quite different...against thier behavioral norms we have come to know.

                  Can you understand were there could be some confusion in this regard? Can you name just one prior episode in which a major Jaffa Leader had just bowed down to another being under threat (yes, yes...except the Goa 'ulds)? Or had willed himself into believing that the slaughter of his own people were necessary in order to free them? It just doesn't add up------to me. But again, as you have noted...its probably just me.
                  Last edited by shiznaw; 29 December 2005, 08:58 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by shiznaw
                    I can understand you wanting to believe in the story line.
                    Not wanting, I DO believe in the storyline.

                    I really want to believe in the possibility of Gerak's rising to claim too, but can you understand where i'm coming from.
                    Yes I can, in fact, I agree with some of the points you're about to mention...

                    It just seems too rushed.
                    Agreed. Afterall, between Reckoning and Avalon it's only been a month, hardly enough to vote for a leader. I mean, look at Iraq!

                    Within 4 episodes, we have not only a new guy to have risen among the ranks to become a major political player on the scene, but he has managed to wield this "political clout" in a manner as to sway the Jaffa Reps into ruling as a Authoritarian Government, not a Democracy.
                    Ah, but the majority of Jaffa never knew anything about Democracy, but they do known something about Authoritairan government, and I believe in their minds, if moulded right, could work for them.

                    They had no experience with Democracy. Besides, they weren't raised that way anyway.


                    In addition, he has become the de-facto head of this newly established Republic and has managed to nearly ostracize (spelling) Tealc & Company from the remaining leaders on the Council. Again, its too rushed.
                    Well, we know his reasons for ostracizing Teal'c and his group, but yes, it does seem a little rushed.

                    Before the 4th Horseman, Part I, all Jaffa had spoken, behaved, fought, and even crapped honorably. Now with the introduction of this one character upon Season 9, we're asked to believe something quite different...against thier behavioral norms we have come to know.
                    I don't believe for a moment that all Jaffa act the same. What we've seen before could be just be an act.

                    Can you understand were there could be some confusion in this regard? Can you name just one prior episode in which a major Jaffa Leader had just bowed down to another being under threat (yes, yes...except the Goa 'ulds)?
                    But why exclude the Goa'uld? It's the exact samething - a higher power capable of completely wiping out their species, AND with God-like powers. If they bowed down to the Goa'uld, they would bow down to the Ori.

                    Or had willed himself into believing that the slaughter of his own people were necessary in order to free them? It just doesn't add up------to me. But again, as you have noted...its probably just me.
                    Again, the Ori's promises must be very tempting for him, so I can definately understand his thought process. Look no further than the real world for why.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      just a power hungry jaffa

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NakedJehutyV2
                        just a power hungry jaffa
                        That is how I see him as well. I wonder if he thinks he can outwit the Ori and become the most powerful?
                        "Embress your life, find what it is that you love, and pursue it with all your soul. For if you do not, when you come to die, you will find that you have not lived."

                        A character from the novel "Chindi" by Jack McDevitt

                        Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
                        'Eleanor Roosevelt'
                        Individuality is freedom lived.
                        'Janis Joplin'

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by shiznaw
                          Can you name just one prior episode in which a major Jaffa Leader had just bowed down to another being under threat (yes, yes...except the Goa 'ulds)?
                          Lord Haikon
                          School is overrated.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If Reckoning & Threads would have happend earlier, say 5-8 episodes earlier in season 8, and after that TPTB would have done a more developed JFN story throughout 3-4 episodes after Reckoning & Threads, a story in which Gerak and the New Jaffa Governement forming would have been slowly introduced in the Stargate universe, maybe season 9 would have felt rushed to you. Would it?

                            Of course I would have loved to see such a story between Reckoning-Threads and Avalon. But Sci Fi asked for 20 not 26 episodes, and at that time season 9 was very iffy.
                            School is overrated.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by PG15
                              Not wanting, I DO believe in the storyline.

                              Agreed. Afterall, between Reckoning and Avalon it's only been a month, hardly enough to vote for a leader. I mean, look at Iraq!

                              Ah, but the majority of Jaffa never knew anything about Democracy, but they do known something about Authoritairan government, and I believe in their minds, if moulded right, could work for them.

                              They had no experience with Democracy. Besides, they weren't raised that way anyway.
                              I agree to the extent that Democracy or a true Republic would not have been a popular choice among the JFN given their cultural and religious history.

                              Originally posted by PG15
                              I don't believe for a moment that all Jaffa act the same. What we've seen before could be just be an act.

                              But why exclude the Goa'uld? It's the exact samething - a higher power capable of completely wiping out their species, AND with God-like powers. If they bowed down to the Goa'uld, they would bow down to the Ori.

                              Again, the Ori's promises must be very tempting for him, so I can definately understand his thought process. Look no further than the real world for why.

                              While I would agree with the possiblity of the Jaffa Society leaning towards an authoritarian measure of governance after being persuaded to follow a traditional hierarchacal standard in line with that of the "old ways", its still a hard sell to convince the fans that such a supposed wise Jaffa Elder would so readily acquiesce to the Ori after just winning their freedom back from forced servitude and slavery spanning several thousands of years....no matter what the reason...religion, money, sex, the promise of Ascension. You'd think after generations of servitude, a leader who had amassed such a following would have known that by now....especially Jaffa.

                              If an Elder's strenths and attributes are a product of the behavioral traits and values the Jaffa Culture espouses, then it would stand to reason that Gerak's Actions should have been more in alignment with that of caution, skepticism, & courage when meeting with the Prior of the ORi.

                              It would have been more credible to see a fracturing of the JFN and subsequent Civil War based upon internal political strife: Mining Colonies under JFN Control and having substantial human societies form their own alliance, or Jaffa Worlds not willing to give up their old ways turn against the Council.

                              Its just lookin like this whole thing is just an excuse to cause a JFN Civil War and get Teal'c more involved with his own people while at the same time neatly tie in the Ori threat.

                              Comment

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