Are the Ori and Prior's a hit at Religious Fundamentlism?

[mahram]

Just wondering what you guys think of the ori and priors. I know joe has kept saying he wont do anything about christian and muslim fundamentalism. But are the ori and priors a backhand way to bring in real world conflicts to sg1. The ori and priors remind me of the muslim and christian fundamentalists. Where they will kill anybody who doesnt belieave in what they belieave.

[rohannen of zorbia]

Dangerous topic.

I think the key difference is that the Ori are actually feeding off of their worshippers in a vampiric kind of way.

While it could be argued that the "fundamentalists" you refer to are doing something similar, I think the differences are significant enough that parallels can only be drawn in a symbolic sense. Most Christians and Muslims (I think) honestly believe that they are helping people out by converting them to their way of thinking. It is true that the priors believe the same of their actions, but the priors are being duped. Unless you believe that the God(s)worshipped by Christians and Muslims is some sort of life-sucking liar and that his/her/their worshippers have been fooled, the situations are entirely different.

Really, the only way to know if the Ori/prior situation is reflective of real-life scenarios is to have the answers to some key questions:

1. Does God exist?
2. What does God want?
3. Is there a specific doctrine spoken by humans that follows God's wishes? If so, which one?

I will not pretend to have the answers to these questions. I believe what I believe and I don't think this forum is an appropriate place to be evangelizing to the masses.

I think the best way to look at the Ori and the priors is to not assign any particular real-world religion to them. Many people (including Christians, Muslims, and others) have killed for their beliefs throughout time. One of the things I've always enjoyed about Stargate is that, while an actual moral to the story is not put forth, questions are raised about what is right and what is wrong. I think the question raised by the Ori situation is: Does anyone have the right to force his or her beliefs on anyone else if believing could help them in the long run?

[Lord Shiva]

Just wondering what you guys think of the ori and priors. I know joe has kept saying he wont do anything about christian and muslim fundamentalism. But are the ori and priors a backhand way to bring in real world conflicts to sg1. The ori and priors remind me of the muslim and christian fundamentalists. Where they will kill anybody who doesnt belieave in what they belieave.

Simple answer: Yes.

I mean, seriously... how much more religious and fundimentalist can you get? They pray to Gods that want to make everyone pray to them. If they don't, they kill them. An Prior erupted into a pyre of fire for goodness sake lol - I'm not going to hide beind a politically correct curtain and try to explain away the Ori as something else.

[Maltrancko]

Somewhat hitler like isn't it??


Or even a shot at old testament christianity like Roman times stuff???

[jefferyb]

Somewhat hitler like isn't it??


Or even a shot at old testament christianity like Roman times stuff???

Old testament Christianity, isn't that called Judaism! And true Christianity, not the freaks that end up on the news, does not kill people for not beleiving, period! The Muslim beliefs state that those that refuse to belief are to be killed, so I would say that there is a direct correlation there, but not christianity.

[Avatar28]

I'm not certain jefferyb, but I don't believe that's true but rather a misunderstanding. Regardless, I don't think it's a dig on any specific religion. Rather I think it's a warning about religious fundamentalism in general.

Look at what we've got.
The Alterans and the Ori originally split. The Alterans believed in science and the Ori religion. The Ori, presumably, wanted to subjugate science and control and limit it in favor of religion. This sounds suspiciously like some of the religious fundamentalism you see today. In particular I'm thinking of things like the whole stem cell debate, this push to have creationism taught in schools under the guise of intelligent design, etc as these are examples of issues where religion and science clash and the religous side claims that science is wrong and want their version taught as correct. It's a slippery slope and soon leads to science is wrong there then it's probably wrong here and here too leading to eventually we should not bother with science or even really much of an education at all, we should just look to my holy book and religion for all my answers. You'll notice in a lot of religious fundamentalist theocracies, education is going to be one of the first things to go. Education can be dangerous by teaching people how to think and worse to question. if you start questioning you might start questioning religion and that's dangerous and mustn't be allowed. Eventually you end up with what we saw in the Avalon and Origin. That's what happened with the Ori I believe.

So yes, I think on some level this is a warning about fundamentalist extremism.

[Shep]

Old testament Christianity, isn't that called Judaism! And true Christianity, not the freaks that end up on the news, does not kill people for not beleiving, period! The Muslim beliefs state that those that refuse to belief are to be killed, so I would say that there is a direct correlation there, but not christianity.

religion doesn't kill anyone. people do. and no one's innocent in the using-their-God-to-justify-murder scenario.

as to the topic, i don't believe they are trying to make a "point". i believe they are trying to tell a story. the best stories are those that have foundations in concepts the reader/viewer already understands and, for one reason or another, can empathize with. if the viewers aren't able to relate to a story idea, then there's kinda no point in telling it.

[Jarnin]

as to the topic, i don't believe they are trying to make a "point". i believe they are trying to tell a story. the best stories are those that have foundations in concepts the reader/viewer already understands and, for one reason or another, can empathize with. if the viewers aren't able to relate to a story idea, then there's kinda no point in telling it.

Practically every single story arc in Stargate has always had a point( or moral) to convey.

How many "addiction is bad" episodes have they made? I mean, Daniel alone was addicted to a sarchophagus, a Goa'uld light machine, Goa'uld knowledge, ancient knowledge... I'm sure I'm forgetting alot.
Ford is addicted to Wraith enzyme, which coincides with steroid use in baseball. Apparently all Ford needs is a little treatment.

Then there is the "too many people, not enough resources" arc they're doing in Atlantis. Not enough humans to feed all the Wraith, so they're going to start a civil war. Sounds like a "War for Oil" plot to me.

There are constant reminders that people who have power shouldn't try to control others, and in most cases, should leave others alone completely. I mean, that's big.
Imagine if there was a massive genocide going on, and the powerful countries of the world did nothing because they didn't want to interfere and possibly make things worse...

They just had an Atlantis episode about torture; apparently it's ok in the "ticking timebomb situation", which is what all the news channels have been talking about for the last few months.

The show is telling us what they would do every time a plot is resolved, and then there is a few minutes to reflect on how the characters feel about their choices.

Apparently the writers are telling us they don't know how to fight religious fanatics, because they're still trying to figure out how to fight the Ori. But the point is, they already told us that they're going to fight them, which is half the point.

[MarshAngel]

I'm not certain jefferyb, but I don't believe that's true but rather a misunderstanding. Regardless, I don't think it's a dig on any specific religion. Rather I think it's a warning about religious fundamentalism in general.

Look at what we've got.
The Alterans and the Ori originally split. The Alterans believed in science and the Ori religion. The Ori, presumably, wanted to subjugate science and control and limit it in favor of religion. This sounds suspiciously like some of the religious fundamentalism you see today. In particular I'm thinking of things like the whole stem cell debate, this push to have creationism taught in schools under the guise of intelligent design, etc as these are examples of issues where religion and science clash and the religous side claims that science is wrong and want their version taught as correct. It's a slippery slope and soon leads to science is wrong there then it's probably wrong here and here too leading to eventually we should not bother with science or even really much of an education at all, we should just look to my holy book and religion for all my answers. You'll notice in a lot of religious fundamentalist theocracies, education is going to be one of the first things to go. Education can be dangerous by teaching people how to think and worse to question. if you start questioning you might start questioning religion and that's dangerous and mustn't be allowed. Eventually you end up with what we saw in the Avalon and Origin. That's what happened with the Ori I believe.

So yes, I think on some level this is a warning about fundamentalist extremism.

I don't think the writers are trying to warn anyone about anything; that would imply a political motivation and agenda. If you believe they have one then I suppose you could argue that; I don't; not in this specific case anyway.
Do I believe they're using elements of our lives and history? yes but there is little point in arguing the direction or desires of fundamentalists or their opposition as it has little to do with the show other than in the most general sense. It's an inspiration not a direct parallell.

The Ori and Alteran conflict has one unique aspect to it. They both believe in the same thing, just different methods of getting there. The Ori are fundamentally evil because they don't actually accept for themselves what they preach. They simply use it to justify and acheive what they really want, power, the search for which is as old as time and is the biggest themes in scifi. And that is where the show takes a huge step away from the fundamentalism vs. Science debate and takes it in the direction of.. what if they (the fundamentalist metaphors) were actually evil?

I'm not a big fan of the clear cut science is good religion is bad theme. It's oversimplifying a complex issue to a degree that it's almost a fallacy. Especially when, in the show, the two seem to be almost inseparable or at the very least complementary.

[neko138]

they may not *counsciously* be making a point but they are going to be influenced to a certain degree by what is on the news, etc. after all, thats the point of the media.

[Jarnin]

they may not *counsciously* be making a point but they are going to be influenced to a certain degree by what is on the news, etc. after all, thats the point of the media.

Uh, the Stargate series both fall under the definition of "media". In other words, while the writers might be influenced by what they see in the news, the viewers are the ones who the writers are trying to influence.

The thing is, the Ori are just a rehash of the Goa'uld when it comes to religious fundamentalism. I don't see why this is such a big deal. The only difference between the two is that the Goa'uld represented ancient religions, and the Ori represent a fictional religion; I admit, it has overtones of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, but it's still fictional.

So why is ok for the writers to take punches at ancient religions, but questionable (or wrong) if they poke at a fictional religion?

[skritsys]

IMHO, I can see how there may be some overtones with religious fundamentalism so to speak, however, in my experience with scifi in general is to look for the simplest explanation. In this case what I get out of it is the parasitical aspect of living. The Goa'uld are parasites that live off the host, and the previous hosts TAKE what they want. Keyword here is that almost all of the villains in Stargate are parasitic and having an aggressive desire to control and dominate the galaxy. Beyond that, it comes up to speculation as to what alien represents what. But in the context of having a villain that would be on par with the Asgard and/or the Ancients, TPTB ultimately had to come up with the flip side of the coin.

[Hex.FTB.enabled]

Old testament Christianity, isn't that called Judaism! And true Christianity, not the freaks that end up on the news, does not kill people for not beleiving, period! The Muslim beliefs state that those that refuse to belief are to be killed, so I would say that there is a direct correlation there, but not christianity.

Wait a sec, are you saying Judaism advocates killing all non-Jews? And I think many muslims would take issue with your third sentence.

I don't think the writer's are taking a direct shot at anyone. Hardcore characters in power are hardly new. I think the idea was more about creating an equal but opposite entity to the Ancients, and be able to draw from that comparison, and less about religion in the real world.

[beale947]

The Ori are waging the ultimate holy war.

[mahram]

alot of scifi uses real life events and cultural happenings to tell stories in scifi. Startrek is the obvious example. Im sure joe and the PTB, dont want to comment on it too much b/c they just dont want to flack in these troubled times, but you have to admit the similarities. The ori and the priors remind me of religious fundamentalists. They have a religion that everybody must follow, and anybody that doesnt are evil. I remember the prior saying that once. They are willing to die for their religion. They are willing to kill anybody that doesnt belieave in their religion. And there seems tobe acts of terriosm in the name of their gods. Remember the episode where they release the plague on the unbelieavers. In a day and age where people are afraid of wmd attack from terriosts, I think the writers were inspired by those fears.

religion doesn't kill anyone. people do. and no one's innocent in the using-their-God-to-justify-murder scenario.

as to the topic, i don't believe they are trying to make a "point". i believe they are trying to tell a story. the best stories are those that have foundations in concepts the reader/viewer already understands and, for one reason or another, can empathize with. if the viewers aren't able to relate to a story idea, then there's kinda no point in telling it.