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    I thought this was a great episode. The philosophical question of when is torture justified was a good one to explore, especially when the target was not the right person. I did like Teyla's song.
    Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

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      what was up with this episode i mean there is a mention on colonel carter and they have general landry but i was expecting a full SG-1 crossover
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      Ohhhhhhhh WHAM BAM THANK YOU MA'AM

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        Originally posted by LT. COL. John Sheppard View Post
        what was up with this episode i mean there is a mention on colonel carter and they have general landry but i was expecting a full SG-1 crossover
        It would be really expensive to have all of SG1 crossover. The SG1 actors are used a lot more then Landry simliar how we saw more of SG1 then Hammond then in the early years
        Originally posted by aretood2
        Jelgate is right

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          I liked the episode. Hated how petty and vindictive Rodney was toward Cadman to the point of actually accusing her of being the culprit, just because he can't deal with what happened between the two of them in "Duet". One of the many reasons I really don't care much for McKay.

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            Doesn't this episode have a major flaw. if Daedalus left 1 week ago to be in range of milky way to receive transmission, how is it make it Atlantis instantly. the episode seems to happen in 1 Atlantis day.

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              Joe Mallozzi's thoughts on this episode:
              http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...critical-mass/

              CRITICAL MASS (213)

              One of the great things about having a franchise run as long as Stargate did was the opportunity we had to create and develop a very rich backstory. There were seemingly innumerable elements we could draw from in crafting new stories. While this was hugely satisfying for us as writers and equally rewarding for longtime fans, there was always the risk of confusing or alienating casual viewers. We tried to keep the two worlds of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis as separate and distinct as possible but, occasionally, there were instances where crossover did occur. Like in this episode. I, for one, loved the idea of crossover when it came to characters, didn’t mind it when it came to shared mythology like the Ancients, but wasn’t exactly enamored of it when it came to unique aspects like, say, the goa’uld and the Trust. I thought it was unnecessarily complex, potentially confusing, and, for lack of a better way of putting it, “wasn’t clean”. And so, for these reasons, I objected to this story at the pitch stage. But, as so often happen over the franchise’s 17 season run, I was overruled and they went ahead and produced a pretty damn good episode.

              It should be noted that I wasn’t the only one who had issues with this episode in its early stages. Some of the cast members objected to the introduction of SG-1 elements for completely different reasons: they felt Atlantis had to stand on its own and any crossover somehow minimized it as a unique series. While I sympathized, I nevertheless felt that crossover was a good thing, strengthening both shows and the franchise as a whole. Others found the story muddled (as result, the episode was renamed Critical Mess by some). But, in the end, while the presence of a go’auld on Atlantis still feels strange to me, the story is dynamic and suspenseful, building to a terrific surprise reveal and nail-biter of a conclusion

              Rachel Luttrell makes her television singing debut in this episode with a song (“Beyond the Night”) composed by the late Joel Goldsmith and his sister Ellen, with lyrics by Stargate’s own Paul Simon = Carl Binder.

              Some of my favorite parts of this episode have nothing to do with the main storyline. They all involve Zelenka who gets sent off-world by Rodney to help out those lovable scamps from the Childhood’s End planet. Zelenka’s angry mutterings “My sister has a child. He breaks things. He throws things. He smears things onto furniture.” fairly encapsulates my feelings toward kids as well. And the poor guy ends up getting stranded on the planet while Atlantis dealt with more pressing issues. Come on, fan fic writers! Where are the Zelenka/Lord of the Flies stories?

              Interesting guest stars abound in this episode. There’s Mitch Pileggi reprising his role as Colonel Caldwell, Ben Cotton returning as the ever-annoying, Kavanaugh, SG-1?s Gary Jones as Harriman, and the great Beau Bridges as General Landry. I say “great” because, not only is Beau a great actor, but he was truly great to work with. And then there’s Hermiod, the cranky Asgard, who takes part in one of my favorites exchanges:

              Hermiod: Dr Kavanagh?.

              Kavanagh: Yes?

              Hermiod: Stop talking, please. (Silence) Thank you.

              It’s also great to see Bill Down, a.k.a. Dr. Lee, make a return appearance. He presides over another great moment when Lee is trying to explain the relay plan to a roomful of scientists. His first example, “the twilight bark” from 101 Dalmations, receives nothing but blank stares. But his second example of Gondor’s fire signals from Lord of the Rings has everyone nodding appreciably. NEEERDS!

              In defending Cadman, Sheppard dismisses her as a suspect because she’s trustworthy while Weir initially casts suspicion on Kavanaugh because he’s not. Given the fact that everyone knows the goa’uld are behind the threat, doesn’t it seem odd that no one ever floats the possibility that someone may have been implanted with a symbiote?

              Weir crosses the line, something that makes her uncomfortable and that she readily admits to at episode’s end. By giving Ronon the go-ahead to torture Kavanaugh, she makes a most uncharacteristic decision under extreme circumstances. Personally, I don’t blame her. I would have made the same call. Still, she’s a better person than I am so I hold her to a higher standard. Thoughts? Was it the right call?
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                really enjoyed this episode but i have a couple of questions: 1) how did colonel caldwell get infected with the goa'uld and 2) how long was he a goa'uld host?

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                  Thought it was an average episode. I didn't like how the A-plot was structured.

                  I liked Beyond the Night, hope there's an instrumental included on the eventual soundtrack (along with Rachel's vocals).

                  Tomorrow, Rodney is stuck on a sinking Jumper.
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                    Even though Weir crossed the moral line with agreeing to the torture of Kavanaugh as a last desperate resort in the ultimately mistaken belief he was the saboteur, I couldn't help feeling that her decision was made a little easier because he was so obnoxious!

                    Being that I'm watching everything with the rewatch, I watched the ceremony and listened to Teyla's song this time instead of pressing the ffwd button. The ceremony didn't give anything to the episode overall for me, but the song used as a background for the scenes as time ran out whilst everyone searched for the way to stop the ZPM overload did work.

                    Tazering Caldwell to momentarily suppress the Goa'uld was a great unexpected low tech solution, given they had other more advanced weapons to hand. It's what I like about Stargate, the technology of present day Earth is not put aside in favour of the advanced technology they discover and utilise.

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                      When you U-tube Teyla's song i love how they backdrop it into the Siege Parts 2 and 3, rather than just stick with the ZPM overload of the episode..

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                        A much better ep.

                        Crossing over to the SGC is always cool. Pity we only see Landry, Walter and the science guy. I forget his name. *That's what I pay you for*

                        Kavanaugh *shudder* I would have suspected him as well. Never would have suspected Caldwell was the Goa'uld if I didn't already know.

                        Those Wraith cruisers were firing at each other for a long time. Yet they didn't have any damage. Odd.

                        Pity Ronan didn't get to have some fun with Kavanaugh. Would have put Weir in a lot of trouble if he did though.

                        Like Teyla singing. If I remember correctly, Rachel is actually a singer.

                        Poor Zalenka haha.
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                          It is strange that many of the cut to the SGC scenes only had walter and Dr lee, along with Gen Landry in..

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                            Critical Mass

                            SGA is a spinoff of SG1 which means the shows basically has a common bond. What can be done to reinforce that bond you might ask? Have a Gou'ald infiltrate Atlantis and have a ticking clock to spice things up! Someone in the writers room must of come up with the idea to have this; they were thinking that they could base a mystery off of this, that having a Gou'ald would not only showcase the bond this show has with SG1 but solidify it as a whole. There were people who claimed this would be a disaster, a "Critical Mess" but some were eventually turned around, even one of the lead writers of the show were convinced this was good for the show. So did this do what it set out to do? No but...

                            This episode is played out like a mystery except in this case, it involves interrogations and a Gou'ald. The beginning of the episode sets up the mystery and some of the tension but it also involves crossing over to the SGC whenever warranted; the scenes at the SGC are unusually weak, the commander feels like he's just forcing his lines out instead of coming naturally and everybody is aware that they're just the second wheel so no need to act as well as they need to. Even the humor in these scenes are unnaturally weak as the stuff is shown is something that's unlike Stargate, not to say their efforts weren't admirable but they just dragged it out so much... No matter, it helps in setting up the mystery and also to set up some of the tension of which this episode feeds on. Seeing everybody search Atlantis is good, they truly know how to keep up that tensity while keeping the mystery feel; while they may not be totally engaged, they're engaged enough to at least provide admirable performances throughout the entire episode. I think Weir is the best out of all of them as her determination into keeping Atlantis safe shows up here, she knows when to be soft and when to be hard, casually asking questions and then going off on them like a cheetah; she knows the situation, she knows to be hard but she can't help to be casual, even when on-the-clock. She's the leader of Atlantis for a reason.


                            Don't mind us, we're just in the episode to reference the connection.

                            The interrogations help to get into some of our characters; we learn something about the engineer from the Daedalus with the glasses and his arrogance and his feelings on Weir; I never knew he felt that strongly about her but I guess this is the purpose of these interrogations. They also remind the episode of what it is, a mystery. We're being given small hints like personality traits, their intentions, prime suspects and even motives; there are things that invite the average viewer to try and figure out the mystery, this mystery that's ever so complex and spontaneous such as the involvement of certain characters from past episodes (including that annoying chick from "Duet" who manages to be somewhat better in this appearance) but there's a certain feeling that there isn't much of a mystery to solve, mainly because the episode focuses more on the overload crisis then the mystery. We're aren't given that much focus on the characters and only a small number of scenes where big clues exist even hint at the possibility of a mystery and it's not only until the end where are surprise culprit is revealed does the mystery completely unravel; we didn't get much time with him, we didn't get scenes which showed his intentions and we certainly didn't get scenes where he looked out of the ordinary. It's like "here's your culprit, he's a Gou'ald, now do your thing!" It will be surprising for those of you considering other suspects but it just feels like a cheap cop-out for such a promising mystery.

                            There are certain moments that will have you on the edge of your seat as mysterious stuff happens all around and the stakes are raised; in relation to the episode, it works well, the characters react appropriately keeping up the tension of the episode and contributing to the mystery but in comparison to other Stargate episodes, it seems weak. There doesn't seem to be the sense of excitement or even real spontaneity that made these moments exciting, in fact it's almost feels like they're doing these things in order to keep the audience somewhat engaged throughout it's wonky premise. I enjoy things going wrong as much as the next guy but not when they're used to distract the audience; which I felt they did here. Again, they do contribute to things but they're a distraction overall. It does get more exciting near the end of the episode as things starts to turn around; everything is on the line and our characters finally become motivated as they react to the situation, even managing to find the focus which the episode hasn't been able to do. It's a rush; the city could truly be destroyed, they're executing plans, it's the moment where everything in the episode suddenly becomes worthwhile and it's part of the reason why we watch SGA in the first place. Shame we have to waddle though a middling episode just to get to the good part though, we don't watch these things just to the ending.


                            A momentous occasion.

                            The gem of this episode have got to be the scenes with Teyla and her grandmother Charin which both grow her character and provide some awesomely sweet and charming moments. You can just see the natural bond that they have, these people really look like they grew up together; they aren't awkward to be around each other, they love to be around each other and interact with each other as they feed her food and chat it up, which makes their scenes engaging and helps us to get into the subject matter of death and letting go which surround their plot. Teyla's reasoning for not wanting to see her go is perfect character-wise, fits in with her society and fits in with their bond; it's one of the finest moments of her character, she can't stand to let her go but eventually she accepts her wishes and even though technology can keep her alive, she lets her go anyway. It's helped by an amazing performance, that actor can really act, she provides tears which are genuine; yes she's acting as if that was her own grandmother and that emotion provides a sense of sensibility to the plot which will relate to the people who are watching this episode and as a plus we even get to see a ceremony (showcasing even more of her society), with a song that has amazing vocals but iffy musical backing. She's really impressive as a singer and with better musical backing, that song could be even more amazing; it serves as decent background music for the action on screen though... If people will remember something from this episode, it'll be this.

                            Watching the episode, whoever objected to the episode must of been right because this is a mess, but it's not a critical mess. The main problem is that it spends so much time establishing the connection between SG1 and SGA that it makes the Gou'ald thing a gimmick; all that back and forwarth, all of those mentions, it's almost like they think that if the Gou'ald is mentioned enough then it would appear to make the episode into something more but alas, they were wrong. There's a mystery aspect to it but it's muddled by these scenes which set a tense mood that seems to imply that it's about these heroes working to save the day rather then finding out who did what. Teyla's scenes are the best scenes in the episode and if it were the A-Plot then it would of provided an interesting episode but as it stands they help to elevate a muddled mess into an tolerable level. Unless you're a fan of SG1/SGA crossovers, there's no need for you run up and watch this.

                            5.0/10
                            Back from the grave.

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                              Midweek, another ep of Atlantis:

                              1. Have to winder why Shep was so worried about taking on the Goa'uld, are they that much tougher than the Wraith?

                              2. Kavanagh-as-Goa'uld was a reasonable assumption though a wrong one. Let's face it, the guy is a bleep! And when you're accussed of something on this scale by someone you've had issues with, you have to play it a lot cooler than he did. Him talking to Weir about personal feelings was the pot calling the kettle black!

                              3. Good to hear Rachel's singing again.

                              Still a quality ep!
                              I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

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                                Originally posted by Matt G View Post
                                Midweek, another ep of Atlantis:

                                1. Have to winder why Shep was so worried about taking on the Goa'uld, are they that much tougher than the Wraith?
                                Maybe its cause by now he has had almost a year of experience fighting the wraith.. but do we know if he even HAD any experience fighting the Gou'ald??

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