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    #16
    Originally posted by BubblingOverWithIdeas
    The whole point of his character is that he's the human traitor. If he were Cylon they would have made him set up the attack instead of having Natasi do it while at the same time trying to get pregnant by him. Cylons cannot have kids with each other.
    Had those two conceived at any time during all their sexual activity? ...no. Do they love each other? ...yes. Love was made out to be the bond required to conceive between humans and Cylons. Baltar's love for Six may have developed after her death, but there is still a shadow of a doubt.

    I never said I was certain Baltar was a Cylon, but I wouldn't rule him out as a candidate just yet. He's in a key position in government and science in the RTF, and his apparent insanity (apparent to the Galactica and Colonial One staff) makes him believably human. It could all be a Cylon ruse to have him carry out Cylon missions without ever casting any self-doubt on Baltar, other than his sanity (I'm not convinced this is valid, merely trying to show that the possibility is still there).

    The Chief as a Cylon makes zero sense to me, for the same reason of two Cylons being unable to conceive. Valerii and Tyrol wouldn't have wasted so much time together if they were Cylons.


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      #17
      According to the RDM podcast Natasi was only a conquest for Baltar. He only came to love her later on. And he likes Gina better, which should be interesting.

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        #18
        Originally posted by BubblingOverWithIdeas
        According to the RDM podcast Natasi was only a conquest for Baltar. He only came to love her later on. And he likes Gina better, which should be interesting.
        I agree, very interesting, and likely very dangerous for Baltar. I'm sure the RTF won't take too kindly to having their Vice-President impregnate a Cylon prisoner.


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          #19
          Originally posted by BubblingOverWithIdeas
          The whole point of his character is that he's the human traitor. If he were Cylon they would have made him set up the attack instead of having Natasi do it while at the same time trying to get pregnant by him. Cylons cannot have kids with each other.
          There are several interesting assumptions here that may be true but seem unconfirmed to me.

          First, what is the extent of Baltar being a "human traitor"? It's true that he unknowingly allowed the Defense mainframe code to be compromised, but he was as duped as the rest of humanity about the existence of human-looking Cylons. He never knowingly committed treason nor betrayed the Colonies, even though a "frame" to prove he tried was attempted by Shelly Godfrey. There's a difference between active collusion with the enemy and what happened in Baltar's case. Baltar also admitted that there were flaws in his ubiquitous navigation code that allowed the Cylon virus to disable the modern Vipers and Battlestars.

          Over the course of time, Baltar has made many material contributions to the safety of the fleet, sometimes with the complicity of internal Six, but more often by flying "by the seat of his pants". The Cylon detector does function correctly, he identified accurately the Doral model without a detector and without any assistance from Number 6, and he pinpointed accurately the key vulnerability of the Fuel Depot. It's true that internal Six has been working away at his loyalties, but the matter of Baltar's allegiance is still an open question.

          None of this eliminates the possiblility that Baltar is a "sleeper" Cylon, however. We weren't in a position to observe if his spine was glowing as we saw him with Natasi (although it's true we had a better angle when he was with Kara in KLG I). The shockwave that we see in the opening credits every week looks pretty devestating to me. It's hard to see how it could have killed Nastasi while leaving Baltar with just a scratch or two.

          The notion that the Cylons were trying to foster a pregnancy between Baltar and Nastasi is, in my opinion, your most interesting point. Perhaps they actually succeeded. Remember in the mini when Nastasi was sitting on the bench on Caprica, obviously waiting to meet someone? We saw her greet someone else ("there you are, I've been expecting you" were something like the words she used, I don't have the episode handy) but we never were shown the face of the person she met.

          Perhaps it was another instance of herself that she met and traded places with. A pregnant number Six would be valuable to the Cylons and worth preserving from the imminent destruction of Caprica. She would need to carry a handy IFOF device in her handbag too, if she were chosing non-Cylon transportation off the planet. The Six pregnant with Baltar's child would be wisked away off planet, while her tag-team 'sister' would disabuse Baltar of his role in the destruction of the Colonies, and die protecting him from the shockwave. This would reconcile the subsequent statements made by internal Six about being the mother of the human-Cylon baby and Baltar being the father as being literally true. It fits the facts nicely but no telling if it plays out that way.

          It's still unproven if "love" is an essential ingredient in human-Cylon reproduction. Baltar apparently didn't have the committed kind of relationship we associate with love for number Six on Caprica, for example. And if love were a requirement, why would Simon bother to havest Kara's ovaries/eggs in the Farm episode?

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            #20
            Originally posted by anotherquestion
            There are several interesting assumptions here that may be true but seem unconfirmed to me.

            First, what is the extent of Baltar being a "human traitor"? It's true that he unknowingly allowed the Defense mainframe code to be compromised, but he was as duped as the rest of humanity about the existence of human-looking Cylons. He never knowingly committed treason nor betrayed the Colonies, even though a "frame" to prove he tried was attempted by Shelly Godfrey. There's a difference between active collusion with the enemy and what happened in Baltar's case. Baltar also admitted that there were flaws in his ubiquitous navigation code that allowed the Cylon virus to disable the modern Vipers and Battlestars.

            Over the course of time, Baltar has made many material contributions to the safety of the fleet, sometimes with the complicity of internal Six, but more often by flying "by the seat of his pants". The Cylon detector does function correctly, he identified accurately the Doral model without a detector and without any assistance from Number 6, and he pinpointed accurately the key vulnerability of the Fuel Depot. It's true that internal Six has been working away at his loyalties, but the matter of Baltar's allegiance is still an open question.

            None of this eliminates the possiblility that Baltar is a "sleeper" Cylon, however. We weren't in a position to observe if his spine was glowing as we saw him with Natasi (although it's true we had a better angle when he was with Kara in KLG I). The shockwave that we see in the opening credits every week looks pretty devestating to me. It's hard to see how it could have killed Nastasi while leaving Baltar with just a scratch or two.

            The notion that the Cylons were trying to foster a pregnancy between Baltar and Nastasi is, in my opinion, your most interesting point. Perhaps they actually succeeded. Remember in the mini when Nastasi was sitting on the bench on Caprica, obviously waiting to meet someone? We saw her greet someone else ("there you are, I've been expecting you" were something like the words she used, I don't have the episode handy) but we never were shown the face of the person she met.

            Perhaps it was another instance of herself that she met and traded places with. A pregnant number Six would be valuable to the Cylons and worth preserving from the imminent destruction of Caprica. She would need to carry a handy IFOF device in her handbag too, if she were chosing non-Cylon transportation off the planet. The Six pregnant with Baltar's child would be wisked away off planet, while her tag-team 'sister' would disabuse Baltar of his role in the destruction of the Colonies, and die protecting him from the shockwave. This would reconcile the subsequent statements made by internal Six about being the mother of the human-Cylon baby and Baltar being the father as being literally true. It fits the facts nicely but no telling if it plays out that way.

            It's still unproven if "love" is an essential ingredient in human-Cylon reproduction. Baltar apparently didn't have the committed kind of relationship we associate with love for number Six on Caprica, for example. And if love were a requirement, why would Simon bother to havest Kara's ovaries/eggs in the Farm episode?
            Awesome work with conjecture of six meeting six so that a baby could be preserved.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by anotherquestion
              First, what is the extent of Baltar being a "human traitor"? It's true that he unknowingly allowed the Defense mainframe code to be compromised, but he was as duped as the rest of humanity about the existence of human-looking Cylons. He never knowingly committed treason nor betrayed the Colonies, even though a "frame" to prove he tried was attempted by Shelly Godfrey. There's a difference between active collusion with the enemy and what happened in Baltar's case. Baltar also admitted that there were flaws in his ubiquitous navigation code that allowed the Cylon virus to disable the modern Vipers and Battlestars.

              The notion that the Cylons were trying to foster a pregnancy between Baltar and Nastasi is, in my opinion, your most interesting point. Perhaps they actually succeeded. Remember in the mini when Nastasi was sitting on the bench on Caprica, obviously waiting to meet someone? We saw her greet someone else ("there you are, I've been expecting you" were something like the words she used, I don't have the episode handy) but we never were shown the face of the person she met.
              I think Baltar could clearly be labeled a traitor. Knowing about the existence of human replica Cylons is immaterial. He still gave an outside person access to the Colonial Defense Mainframe. The fact that she later turned out to be a Cylon is just bad luck. I would have no problem with trying him for treason even if she was just a human.

              When Six is sitting on the bench in Caprica City she looks almost straight up. This is just before the bombardment begins. I think she was acknowledging the arrival of the Cylon fleet. She regularly implies speaking with God. I believe that she is remotely communicating with the Cylon fleet as they arrive in orbit having expected them soon.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by voigtstr
                I dont think him hiding his head by her crotch would have protected him much from the blast that came rushing through the windows.
                Maybe she was wearing a high impact silicone thong.
                Freedom is Slavery. Spending is Stimulus. Hope is Change

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by madk99
                  Maybe she was wearing a high impact silicone thong.
                  Although Six, or Natasi, had shown a previous persuasion for vinyl underthings, I think you may be onto something.


                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by madk99
                    Maybe she was wearing a high impact silicone thong.
                    Although Six, or Natasi, had shown a previous persuasion for vinyl underthings, I think you may be onto something. PopTarts, anyone?


                    Comment


                      #25
                      Think back to the episode when Sharon took Helo off the "Cylon Plan" and they started running. Doral said to number six that he wished to experience the emotion of love that helo had, "even in his anguish he seemed so alive". Now six on the other hand was near to tears. I got out of this that she too had a huge longing for true love. Now that brings up several points.

                      A. She never felt love between her and Baltar. Which then means that they could not of had a child, they have said over and over that they never had it work yet, except for sharon and helo (so far so good) since they had love for each other.

                      B. Internal Six is not connected to any of the other cylons what so ever. If she was then the number six above would know what love is like since internal six has had some on and off spurts with baltar.

                      Also about internal six not having a chip in baltars head that showed up on the scan...well lets think about it. The cylons are basically cyborgs, they are machines with flesh and blood. Therefore who's to say the chip isn't organic??? Something that would not show up on the scans what so ever...

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Astrofighter
                        B. Internal Six is not connected to any of the other cylons what so ever. If she was then the number six above would know what love is like since internal six has had some on and off spurts with baltar.
                        I agree with this. It has been suggested by others that the mind of Cylon is not connected with any of the others until death. This seems to be the most consistent position with what we have seen in several episodes.

                        Originally posted by Astrofighter
                        B. Also about internal six not having a chip in baltars head that showed up on the scan...well lets think about it. The cylons are basically cyborgs, they are machines with flesh and blood. Therefore who's to say the chip isn't organic??? Something that would not show up on the scans what so ever...
                        This, I agree with wholeheartedly because, in fact, I also suggested it. Some long lost thread has this same argument. Since we know that Cylons are adept at bio-engineering, the implant could be closer to a slice of lunchmeat than a chip. (to me it's simply not a sandwich without chips)
                        Freedom is Slavery. Spending is Stimulus. Hope is Change

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                          #27
                          What if Balter didn't survive the blast?

                          What if Balter is a Cylon?

                          What if the Balter we saw in teh blast died as did Six.

                          What if the radiation from the blast scrambled their consciousness being transfereed into new bodies. Instead of a new Blater and a new Six, a new Balter emerged and the consciousness of Six was transffered to the new Balter.

                          Cylon models can be sleppers. Unaware they are Cylons until "woken". Maybe he hasn't been woken yet.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            No a Baltar is a famous guy in the 12 colonies. His past is surely well documented and well investigated. Plus, they would not need six to get him to allow her access if they already had him. They would do what they did to shannon when she planted the bombs in 'Water' he would just have a blank memory. That is not the case at all.

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                              #29
                              What a twist if they did.

                              Sure okay his past would be investigated etc. You would also think that the past of a pilot in the fleet would be investigated too. Wouldn't it?

                              They turned boomer from a boy human to a girl cylon. They made starbuck from a boy human to a girl human.

                              They upgraded the cylons from toasters to people. SO why not make Baltar a cylon?

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