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Thread: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

  1. #1
    Major jonno's Avatar
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    Default The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Now, I appreciate that everyone has an opinion, and, that as I live in the UK and haven't seen the new episodes yet, I am in no position to comment on the quality of them, but, I was reading the comments in Joe's latest blog, and was shocked by some of the criticism flying his way.

    Frankly, to call someones creation "drivel" (to take one anonymous posters example) I found to be quite rude, and unconstructive. If you wish to post suggestions to how you feel the show could be better, I don't see why it can't be done politely, and with less hostility.

    It seems that some fans wish to portray TPTB of this show in the same light as Bermaga of Startrek fame - and are slating a man who seems to be working his socks off to take a show in a new direction, after the unfortunate loss of its leading actor. He then also finds time to post a blog, and posts on the forum for the fans benefit - only for a small number of them to slap him back in the face, because they have more access to the executive producer than you'd find on most shows.

    Up and until now, I had found Gateworld to be a fairly happy and relaxed place to be, but that seems to be changing.

    IMO, we should be appreciating what we are being provided with by TPTB, because even if it has slightly lower in quality, I am sure that its a darn site better than the rest of the [insert expletive] we are being fed with on telly at the moment.

    PS - oh - and i'm not an ex-farscaper crawling backto SG1 because of BB or CB
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  2. #2
    Lieutenant General ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Gateworld hasn't been a primarily happy and fun place to visit for quite a long while, now. At least in my opinion.

    People are growing increasingly hostile and less tolerant, they're a lot more petty and vitriolic in their arguments, and very few of them are willing to even tolerate the wild and wacky concept that differring viewpoints can and do exist.

    Joe has borne the brunt of fandom ire for years, now, mainly because he puts himself out there and makes a target of himself. Sometimes I admire him for it, sometimes I wish he'd just stay in his hobbit hole and avoid throwing fuel on the fire.

    He's a big boy and he knows exactly what to expect from fandom. I think he's had more first-hand experience with the good, bad, and ugly side of things than any of the rest of us. Which doesn't make it okay that people attack him and the other PTB, mind you, but that's what we have Mods for. If you think a comment crosses the line, PM Darren. Comments CAN be removed by the administrator if they go too far.

    Of course, the problem is that a lot of it DOESN'T go too far. It's nowhere near polite, but it isn't crude enough to set off warnings, either. This particular breed of hatred has been running rampant on the forum in ever-increasing numbers and it's cropping up in Joe's blog comments, too. But if there's nothing SPECIFIC to cry foul about, then the mods can't do anything.

    However, that being said, I don't think Joe should be coddled, either. There are some, both here and on the blog comments, who seem to feel that only GOOD comments should be allowed, only POSITIVE opinions should be expressed. Just because a few people can't keep their manners when they're angry doesn't mean ALL naysayers should be shut in a dark hole and forgotten.

    There's a lot to be said for constructive criticism and for allowing people to vent their displeasure... in a polite way, of course.

    There is no one group or faction- be they pro, anti, or in between- who isn't guilty of SOME ill-expressed opinions. There are always a few weasels in every jet engine ruining the fun for everyone else. The trick is not to blame ALL weasels for the actions of a few.

    And remember that everyone has a right to an opinion, even if you disagree with it.

  3. #3
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    I agree that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. And they should be able to voice those opinions to Joe M., since he has made himself available for it. I am a big advocate for staying civil, though. Not once have I insulted anyone on this forum, and I never will. I refuse to stoop to that level.

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  4. #4
    Chief Master Sergeant deathbed1983's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    i have noticed this to, just tonight i noticed someone say something mean just because they did like how they wrote some spoilers, its just sad really.

  5. #5
    Captain Steve_the_Wraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Gateworld can be a VERY negative place. Most of the forums are quite positive, but the "SG-1 Season 9" forum is a black hole of pessimism from which no light and positivity can escape

    I try to avoid disscussions of future episodes on that forum because they usually end up turning into a "how will TPTB mess this one up thread". I'm trying to give all the episodes an unbiased opinion.

    However thats not saying that people aren't entitled to their opinion, on some points I agree with people about the way the show is going. After the crusade spoiler I voiced my frustration with the spoilers along with alot of people. It's just that in that forum its not dislike of a certain episode or spoiler but a continously burning hatred of the new season combined with pessimism about all future episodes
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  6. #6
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    One thing folks need to realize is that there are ways to express your opinion.

    There are elements that i like, and there are turns that the show's taken that definitely aren't to my taste.

    but, it's not what your opinion is but how you express it.

    I for one, tend to keep my pessamistic thoughts to just a few threads. i'm not going to spam them around. They are there and they are my opinions. I'm just not going to cram them down peoples' throats.

    One thing i do think is that we do have a lot of individuals with thier passionate opinions. and they have a rather unique ability to voice those opinions directly to an 'in' at bridge.

    The one thing many folks dont' realize however, is that Joe is just one of many that make decisions. And some of the decisions that have been made are made on whole different levels than he has control of. Yelling at him will probably not accomplish very much.

    Now, should folks only express the aspects that they like? No, be honest. But be polite. And also, no matter how much something sucks, there is always something right about it. and no matter how much something is 'great', there's always something wrong with it

  7. #7
    Colonel Seshat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    And remember that everyone has a right to an opinion, even if you disagree with it.
    I'm a big believer in what Shadow and the fifth man and what others have said in here. I like GW because I know I can express my opinion, be it positive or negative (or somewhere in between), and it will be met with respect by most of the other posters. But I try to keep in mind the tone of the thread or place in which I will be commenting. I try to respect the topic and limits that the thread starter has outlined. If it is a general discussion thread where all views are welcomed, and I want to give my extremely negative or extremely positive opinions, I try to do so in a constructive fashion because I know my audience will consist of people on both sides of the issue. Insulting other posters or being rude will not win anyone over to my viewpoint. Yelling at people and being snarky IRL endears you to NO ONE, and is doubly true here. This is the one thing I think some posters most forget: manners. And manners matter whether I am addressing Joe or JoeNewbie.
    Last edited by Seshat; September 20th, 2005 at 01:49 PM. Reason: my spelling is atrocious!

  8. #8
    Lieutenant General prion's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    Gateworld hasn't been a primarily happy and fun place to visit for quite a long while, now. At least in my opinion.
    It varies on the threads you visit. Some can be downright nasty.

    Joe has borne the brunt of fandom ire for years, now, mainly because he puts himself out there and makes a target of himself. Sometimes I admire him for it, sometimes I wish he'd just stay in his hobbit hole and avoid throwing fuel on the fire.

    I hate to say it, but any TPTB that comes out publicly must be willing to accept that not everybody is going to kowtow to him and become a sycophant (sorry, but I've seen a few in this fandom). It happens in any fandom in which a TPTB visits and actively participates with fandom. I do think that fandoms ARE better off when the writers/directors just lurk; for one thing, they probably get a better idea of the fandom rather than having droves of fans writing schmaltzy begging emails for their particular faction (ship, slash, etc., etc. etc.) to be on the actual show.

    He's a big boy and he knows exactly what to expect from fandom. I think he's had more first-hand experience with the good, bad, and ugly side of things than any of the rest of us. Which doesn't make it okay that people attack him and the other PTB, mind you, but that's what we have Mods for. If you think a comment crosses the line, PM Darren. Comments CAN be removed by the administrator if they go too far.

    Er, yes, and he's behaved as well and as bad as the fans. Still remember a rather vitriolic online letter he posted to a journalist. And he does get his digs into fans as they get their digs in at him. Tit for tat, sorta....

    However, that being said, I don't think Joe should be coddled, either. There are some, both here and on the blog comments, who seem to feel that only GOOD comments should be allowed, only POSITIVE opinions should be expressed. Just because a few people can't keep their manners when they're angry doesn't mean ALL naysayers should be shut in a dark hole and forgotten.

    If you see only positive comments, and bad comments (but not so bad they should be removed due to langauge, threats) removed, then that's censorship. Then you might as well just block anyone from responding. Period.

  9. #9
    Lieutenant General ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Seshat
    But I try to keep in mind the tone of the thread or place in which I will be commenting. I try to respect the topic and limits that the thread starter has outlined.
    Exactly. Going onto the anti S9 thread, for instance, and telling people how much you LOVE season 9 and how everything is completely awesome and "you people just don't get it" is not the right way to carry on a friendly conversation.

    Likewise, launching yourself into the middle of, say, a ship thread and talking about how such-and-such pair makes you want to vomit through your eyeballs will probably not garner the most positive of reactions from the thread's denizens.

    Express your opinion politely, yes, but also use those fluffy little brain cells of yours to figure out things like what "anti" and "pro" mean.

  10. #10
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat

    People are growing increasingly hostile and less tolerant, they're a lot more petty and vitriolic in their arguments, and very few of them are willing to even tolerate the wild and wacky concept that differring viewpoints can and do exist.
    And the poster of this is such a person.

    I do agree with you jonno, although I'm in the same position as you. It's not really called upon for the agression being given out by some members.

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Stricken's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Negative you say, hadnt noticed!!

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel Osiris-RA's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    I didn't know people were being that rude. They're probably doing it to get attention and apparantly it works. I agree Gateworld has become a bit testy lately. Seems like that ever since certain more religious Farscape fans wandered over to Gateworld and found a chance to put down original SG 1 characters for the ones they're most fond of. But that's not all of them of course, just a few. I don't see why we can't all co-exist together happily in each fandom.

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Arative's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    Exactly. Going onto the anti S9 thread, for instance, and telling people how much you LOVE season 9 and how everything is completely awesome and "you people just don't get it" is not the right way to carry on a friendly conversation.

    Likewise, launching yourself into the middle of, say, a ship thread and talking about how such-and-such pair makes you want to vomit through your eyeballs will probably not garner the most positive of reactions from the thread's denizens.

    Express your opinion politely, yes, but also use those fluffy little brain cells of yours to figure out things like what "anti" and "pro" mean.
    Thats so true. No point in getting into the middle of something that you know you can't change anyone's mind on. People in Anti-9 aren't suddenly going to find the light and love SG-1 and people in the pro-9 aren't suddenly going to start hating SG-1 no matter what I say or anyone else says. Let everyone have thier own vent threads, least we know where to avoid them

    Of course I'm always up for a good debate though as long as its nice and civil and fun, because debating certainly can be fun and at least it relieves some of the boredom at work! And of course every is entitled to thier own opinion, no matter how wrong I think thier opionion is Of course I'm always right, at least thats what I tell myself but then my girlfriend tells me she's always right, so I'm not sure who to believe!!!

  14. #14
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    It's not fair to blame any testiness on farscape fans

    i think a lot of it has a lot of causes

    a) the makeup of the show has changed. rda left and that's just no fun for anyone who liked him or the character of jack o'neill

    b) it also has bearing on the relationships that jack was involved in. kinda hard to have jack/daniel, jack/teal'c, jack/sam when half your ship is gone

    c) we have two sets of 'new blood' which alters things

    d) amanda was gone and we had vala for 5.5 episodes and she is definitely not a personality type that fans usually associate with stargate

    e) the general drive/attitude of the show has changed

    f) there have been additions to the writing staff

    g) there have been changes in the command staff of the show

    h) i personally have no doubt that scifi and mgm are sticking their noses in as well

    all this contributes to a LOT of changes, some obvious, such as RDA's absence and BB's addition, and others not so obvious and more open to the individual perception and tastes of the individual viewers

  15. #15
    Lieutenant General ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    I think the blame-the-Scapers thing can be pinned on a few individuals who go out of their way to make everyone around them (including other Scapers) insane. They're the ones who give the rest of their fandom a bad name. They're among the weasels in the jet engine and on the ground you can see all the other little weasels shaking their heads in disgust.

    But as I said, there are a few in every crowd and Stargate is certainly no different.

    It's the intolerant fans (of any show, faction, pairing, whatever) who make it worse. But that's what Ignore lists are for.

  16. #16
    Intergalactic Hussy
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    I believe that people have the right to criticize Joe's work, it's put forth for the public and therefore is open game, but as others have said I do believe that there is a way to do so especially when the man is taking time out of his busy schedule in order to bring us information on the show and to answer our questions when he is certainly under no obligation to do so. Also, I tend not to take people's criticisms as seriously when they hide under a cloak of anonymity. I imagine that it's harder to call someone's work drivel when you have your name attatched to it for the world to see.

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  17. #17
    Lieutenant General ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Shipperahoy
    Also, I tend not to take people's criticisms as seriously when they hide under a cloak of anonymity. I imagine that it's harder to call someone's work drivel when you have your name attatched to it for the world to see.
    Amen. Anyone too cowardly to put their name onto a vitriolic post isn't worth listening to, in my opinion. And if you can't put your name to something, chances are you KNOW that it's wrong and doesn't deserve to be posted.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    I think the blame-the-Scapers thing can be pinned on a few individuals who go out of their way to make everyone around them (including other Scapers) insane. They're the ones who give the rest of their fandom a bad name. They're among the weasels in the jet engine and on the ground you can see all the other little weasels shaking their heads in disgust.
    I guess I haven't been following the threads where scapers are blamed for anything--or where they've gone over the top, so to speak--but I do want to say that the show MUST have had them in mind when they hired BB. Besides his talent, he brings an established fan base with him. That had to be taken into consideration. If his fans are upset, maybe it's because they feel there's a bit of bait and switch going on with the show. The show promoted the heck out of him and then didn't really develop his role. Not saying anyone should express themselves in a nasty way, but that IS a legitimate point of view. And calling folks "weasels" is...well...kind of the opposite of nice.

  19. #19
    Second Lieutenant Jace021903's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    I am all for expressing an opinion either positive or negative--I am quite opinionated myself on certain topics, but there is such a thing as common courtesy.

    Big changes do tend to make people a little edgy; the same thing happened at the end of season 5. But it's really discouraging to see the amount of vemon that is being directed at fans who don't agree with a particular point of view, or writers who don't write the preferred storyline, or actors who don't say the correct thing in interviews. Bashing real people over a fictional show doesn't compute to me. There are ways to make points without making it personal.

    I agree with Skydiver: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

    Jace

  20. #20
    Lieutenant Colonel stargate barbie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Comments in J. Mallozzi's Blog

    personally, i love joe, and have a huge amount of respect for both the man himself and his work. i appreciate very much how he devotes so much time to his fans, and even though i aspire to be a film maker i know that joe and most if not all of his colleagues have more talent in their shoelaces than i will ever have.

    i was offline for a good few months and only rejoined the thread recently, and found myself quite surprised in the change of the forums general aura. i usually find GW to be the most positive of the forums i've visited, and tend to limit myself to here as a result, but there does seem to be increasing negativity in the air here lately and i think in some cases people are lashing out at the nearest target, unfortunately in a lot of cases that seems to end up being JM, whom i believe to be completely undeserving of this.

    hopefully this is just a passing phase and things will improve.

    can't we all just get along!?!

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