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    ZPM's

    This is my first post, ever, but anyway surely the weapon on Dakara would have a ZPM in it, for something to be able to affect a whole galaxy then it must have at least an equivalent power source to the ZPM.
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    #2
    Why? We know nothing about the properties of that wave (save that travelled so slowly it won't have affected the galaxy for millions of years) let alone how much energy it did or did not consume.
    Lord §okar, Niles, Mark VI, etc: Dom Howard fan

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      #3
      I think the Dakara device was probably low power like the satellite in the SG:A ep. The Defiant One. It took a while before it actually released the energy bubble; perhaps it was building up energy in a capacitor-like doohickey until it got to the power levels it needed to fire.
      Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

      1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Salas1
        This is my first post, ever, but anyway surely the weapon on Dakara would have a ZPM in it, for something to be able to affect a whole galaxy then it must have at least an equivalent power source to the ZPM.
        That device wasn't originally a weapon (AFAIK). Ancients used it to recreate life in the galaxy after the plague killed everyone. It created the wave only in local area but they rigged the gate to dial all gates in the galaxy and the wave went through that gate. The device itself could be powered by normal naquadah reactor if they brought one or by that ancient power source that is included in every piece of their tech. Dialing all gates in the galaxy would use enermous amount of energy but we know that energy can be provided by target gate so this shouldn't be any problem and we would need no ZPM.
        Sorry for my bad english. I'm just a little post-communist building nuclear warheads in backyard.

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          #5
          OK, I’ve been working the ZPM problem for a while. Like others I think the ZPMs are singularity based, after a fashion.

          The natural forces that form the bases of the manufacturing of ZPMs;

          This is what I think, and I need a little help with my physics here.

          At the mid point in a black holes life cycle it explodes, to start a new. To my way of thinking there are microscopic bits and pieces of the core of the black hole, along with a hell of a lot of proto matter including iron, or proto-iron that is being propelled outward by the explosion, to eventually form a new galaxy. There is a massive amount of other molecules being formed at this point but for now I am only concerned with iron, and other heavy metals, which I will collectively refer to as iron.

          In the formation of a planet or sun, one of these microscopic fragments of the exploded black hole’s core is surrounded by a ring of iron, which orbits just out side of the event horizon. The propulsive vector provided by the explosion, and the attractive vector caused by the core fragment’s intents gravity combine to cause the near by iron to enter into a kind of orbit around the singularity fragment. As more and more iron is picked up in this fashion, due to the fact that two bodies cannot occupy the same space at the same time the resulting orbital collisions cause a kind if loosely organized sphere to form.

          As more and more iron assumes this orbit, the attractive vectors caused by a combination of the gravitational fields of the iron, and core fragment cause the iron to attempt to collapse inward. Since the vector force is uniform, instead of joining with the singularity fragment the iron forms a sphere around this infinitesimal chunk of exploded black hole.

          This iron sphere prevents any other matter from crossing the event horizon and reaching the singularity fragment thus preventing an increase in its mass. There has to be a fairly precise ratio between the mass of the singularity fragment and the available iron or this will not work. The total resultant mass of the iron and singularity fragment, if the ratio is within the prescribed limits, causes in effect what is a new event horizon to be formed just above the external surface of the iron sphere. It must be noted that the gravitational forces exerted by the singularity fragment on the iron sphere is such that the singularity fragment is held in a condition of near stasis at the iron sphere’s center of gravity, creating a kind of zero-point. Since if this happened in reality, this would not exactly be a sphere, but more spheroid or even egg shaped, I will call this a zero-point-spheroid.

          Now this is where my physics gets even fuzzier if that is possible.

          It is often said that nothing escapes a black hole which is true, there is however a condition having to do with the event horizon, where that appears not to be the case. It appears at first blush that a great deal of heat and radiation escapes a black hole.

          If I remember correctly what happens, Often at the interface between normal space and the distorted time space of a black hole a kind if molecular tearing takes place. A particle comes in at a vector where the black hole tries to grab the particle, but only succeeds in grabbing a small piece of the particle causing it to be torn apart. As in Nuclear fission, this tearing causes an amount of heat and radiation to be liberated. Part of this heat and radiation is sucked into the black hole while the part that is in normal space radiates outward, away from the black hole. Thus giving the impression that heat and radiation can escape a black hole. I am not at all sure at what level this tearing takes place, whether it’s at the Molecular, Atomic or Subatomic level.

          OK getting back to my zero-point-spheroid. This tearing also takes place, on the surface of the zero-point-spheroid, but the piece of particle captured by the gravity field cannot proceed to the singularity, it along with the captured heat and radiation stays at the surface of the iron spheroid; eventually forming a super-heated plasma.

          Now we deal with the rest of the proto-matter that we have been ignoring to this point. This proto-matter has also been trying to join with the singularity fragment. However the gravitational density of the iron has caused it to push aside the lighter proto matter as they compete to get to the singularity fragment. The gravitational forces now cause the lighter proto-matter to compress and form a crust around the zero-point-spheroid. The free heat and radiation that would have escaped into space from the particle tearing is now trapped in the proto-matter crust. This trapped heat causes a layer of the proto-matter to become a liquid magma. Throw in the laws of thermodynamics and you have, depending on the mass of the zero-point-spheroid, a volcanically active planet or a sun.

          This could very easily be called, a “Planetary engine.”

          Now getting to the ZPM of Star Gate Atlantis fame.
          Knowing how a “Planetary Engine” works there is no reason why a scientist any scientist wouldn’t want to harness the power for use by their species. Hell as a source of power it’s hard to beat.

          Obviously a full-scale planetary engine would be very hard to construct as it relies on the propulsive forces of a big bang like event to do a lot of the work. So manipulating a planet size, “Planetary Engine,” would be as problematic as hell. So if you can’t build a full size one, build a miniature.

          So for the sake of argument the Ancients decided to build miniaturized “Planetary Engines,” which because of the singularity fragment held in a condition of near stasis at its center they decided to call a Zero-Point-Module or ZPM for short.

          So this is how ZPMs are built.
          If there are singularity fragments, cause by a big-bang like event then they must come in an assortment of sizes, a range of which would be suited to subminiature, “Planetary Engines,” The problem then becomes finding one that fits in the range and encasing it in something that allows it to be used.

          The next problem is where do you find such a fragment, given that they are shot outward from a single point and the root mean square rules apply, even in hundreds of thousands they must be very far apart after a billion of years travel or so. I mean your not going to get next to a big bang just after it happens.

          I could go on forever but I’m going to shorten this up.

          The singularity fragments of the right size are hard to find, almost to the point of relying on random chance. Because singularity fragments are not forgiving things when found they must be encapsulated where found, which would be very tricky. Consequently ZPMs are not easy to come by.

          Finally the Ancients seem to be using a crystalline mass to convert the heat and radiation to electricity, which means like a battery the electrons have to be replenished. Again making a long story short a thunderstorm would do rather nicely. The heat generated by the sub miniaturized Planetary Engine causes the crystalline it’s encased in to generate a massive flow of electrons. With the use of superconductors, almost as many electrons are returned to the crystals, as they release so the short fall to make up this minimal. If the short fall is not made up then the ZPM crystals deteriorate which at a very slow rate of loss could take tens of thousands of years.

          More later….

          Edited to correct spelling mistakes….

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            #6
            i dare you to say that again


            anyway we know that zpm's are powered by zero point energy not a quantum singularaty such as a black hole it is still unclear how the zpm interacts with its self containing region of subspace time it has not been explaned yet

            and i doubt the device on dakara was building up the power to fire i think it would have needed a powerful energy source such as a zpm or equivilent the only reason it took so long to fire was because they needed to get the frequence correct to be able to seporate the kireon pathways between the replicator blocks
            "only two things are infinate the universe and human stupidity and im not sure about the universe"

            -albert einstein

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              #7
              Well, EMSPARKS, you've based your idea on wrong assumption. Black holes don't explode in their mid-life. Explosion occurs only in the end of black hole's life when it radiates all of its energy in a very short time.
              Sorry for my bad english. I'm just a little post-communist building nuclear warheads in backyard.

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                #8
                I wasn't aware black holes exploded at all. Also, this talk of protomatter, protoiron and other things is kinda... whiskey tango foxtrot too. The mention of distorted spacetime only getting part of a particle... massively against all principles of quantum physics. What you're actually referring to is the particle/virtual anti-particle effects postulated by Stephen Hawking in what was later to be called Hawking Radiation. Anyway, to summarise, this planetary engine is just so wrong. So many wrong assumptions resting on so many other wrong assumptions it's just so wrong wrong wrong. :s

                Now with added lesbians.

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                  #9
                  Actually, we don't know that Zero Point Modules use Zero Point Energy, it has never been stated, we simply assumed, because of the similarity in the names.

                  Owen Macri

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                    #10
                    First of all as to black holes exploding, from what I understand that is an open point of debate in the real world of physics.

                    I said that I needed help with my physics, and I also said this was my thoughts, not facts.

                    It is the easiest thing in the world to say something is wrong, it is a whole other matter to make something out of nothing. So you can keep telling me how wrong I am or you can help me come up with a workable theory…. Your choice…


                    I am told on am other bulletin board that once black holes come into existence they are permanent, never going out of existence.

                    I don’t buy it, if this was the case then given the possible age of the entire universe not just our little piece, then the entire universe’s matter should have been sucked up into one black hole or another, well before our little epoch.

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                      #11
                      A black hole doesn't explode, but the star that forms the black hole goes super nova before the black hole is formed. IIRC A Black hole lives for more than 10e100 years before evaporating in a plasma of particles and their anti-particles.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by EMSPARKS
                        First of all as to black holes exploding, from what I understand that is an open point of debate in the real world of physics.

                        I said that I needed help with my physics, and I also said this was my thoughts, not facts.

                        It is the easiest thing in the world to say something is wrong, it is a whole other matter to make something out of nothing. So you can keep telling me how wrong I am or you can help me come up with a workable theory…. Your choice…


                        I am told on am other bulletin board that once black holes come into existence they are permanent, never going out of existence.

                        I don’t buy it, if this was the case then given the possible age of the entire universe not just our little piece, then the entire universe’s matter should have been sucked up into one black hole or another, well before our little epoch.
                        My apologies if I came across as condescending. I'm just sick of people reading a brief history of time and thinking they're the forum's gift. No offence to you but your science was very off, and you should read some more. That was all.

                        Now with added lesbians.

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                          #13
                          the inner workings of a zpm are a mystery because not much is said about them

                          oh and ive read like 20-30 books on the subject of astrophysics brief... is not the best or even that great its an overview of some very intense concepts thats a good intro but thats it
                          My Blog - - Raise The Fist

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                            #14
                            OK tell me about black holes, in broad strokes, both sides of the coin. The side you believe in and those that you don’t.

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                              #15
                              i thoght that mckay said that they were powerd by some sort of vacum?

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