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**Slainte** · 25 June 2004, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by morjana

I was over noodling around Zap2It, and found this article. It's dated July 4! Looks like I found a way to travel ahead in time...

From Zap2It:

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,274|88909|1|,00.html

But never say never, right?"

I've reached the stage where I'm just saying we (shippers/antishippers generic) are SO being played.

Cynical, me?

**tara3583** · 25 June 2004, 09:58 PM

Interesting read, i liked Amanda's comment
about Pete not being dead YET! LOL wonder if
she know's somthing

Anyway s8 sounds like an interesting road
that Sam is going to take, i'm just hoping
that tptb will let Jack join her at some
point!

**Madeleine** · 25 June 2004, 10:08 PM

One question - what's a 'Boo-Foo'? Is it some Canadian or US slang or cultural reference? Could a confuddled Brit have a translation please!

**majorsal** · 25 June 2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Madeleine_W

One question - what's a 'Boo-Foo'? Is it some Canadian or US slang or cultural reference? Could a confuddled Brit have a translation please!

I just asked that question myself, Madeleine.<g> I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. It isn't US slang, that's for sure. Wait... I'm so out of what's going on outside of my room, it could be the new president. <g>

Sally

**binkpmmc** · 26 June 2004, 01:51 AM

I know I may be in the minority with the opinion I am about to set forth but I have been comfortable here (which I cannot say about other forums I have visited where, if you stray even a little from the opinions of the posters, you get blasted). As I have said in the past on posts here I have not been a shipper for any pairing nor an anti-shipper for any pairing so I will just go ahead and post my thoughts and perhaps some will agree with it a little or a lot or not at all but I just need to vent a little and get this out of the way.
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I read this newest article with a touch of sadness that Stargate SG1 - what was once, IMO, one of the best Sci-Fi shows available - has, in some ways, become a sad, poorly written soap opera wanna-be, IMO. It has gotten to the stage where many of the spoilers are about romance and love lives of the characters and on top of that many of the news and magazine stories we are seeing prior to the new season are discussing love lives of the characters (all 4 of the main characters not just Sam and Jack) and the focus on the S/J stuff is really starting to bug me. I was not a shipper or an anti-shipper of any pairing - I just really never cared about it and never really saw it I just enjoyed the show and watched for the team interaction (and admit that along the way Sam had become one of my favorites but her acceptance of the pete behaviour turned that south for me) and their adventures and well written sci-fi stories about their off-world adventures and their adventures with their enemies and friends alike.
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Now though, I must say, that with all of the focus on love lives, and shippiness I am bordering on becoming an anti-shipper, S/J or any other kind of ship they care to try and throw at us. As one poster here just said - TPTB, and the actors, are playng the fans. They vacillate/dither on this and they play games and they contradict themselves all over the da*n place and it really is starting to grate. I did not watch the show for poorly written love stories or soap opera style nonsense. The writers are sci-fi writers and, IMO, they were pretty darn good at it, at one time. They are, however, lousy soap opera/love story/romance writers. Now with the ship, love lives, romance crap eeking into almost everything they do and say in some way it is losing its magic for me.
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I know I am only one lonely voice out here and one lonely viewer whose absence will not affect the nielsen ratings but since it seems that at least Joe Mallozzi and Amanda Tapping visit here I really hope they or other PTB see this so they know they lost at least one, what used to be, true fan who, if not at home on a Friday, would tape it. Now - I don't think so. If I'm home and "Absolutely Fabulous" is on against it as it was this past season, I'll choose AbFab. Whereas last season I always chose SG1 and would catch AbFab in re-runs - that show is hilarious if you have not seen it and you like British humour you must try to catch it in re-runs if you can. (I almost forgot that Star Trek Voyager will be an alternative choice too.)
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Anyway, please don't bash me about this - it's just my opinion and I am currently in a very cynical place about the show (as well as other things, particularly a certain FORMER President) and what we are hearing and being fed by TPTB and the actors and I just have decided it's probably time for me to part ways with Stargate SG1. In some way I wanted to put this out there to see if I really am alone in this opinion of how the show has lost its magic for some or if there are a few people out there who are feeling the same way about it.
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Finally what also bothers me, because Sam did become a favorite, is the way that Ms. Tapping has completely, at least IMO, turned around on her opinions of what she wanted for the character of Sam in the past year. Over the first 6 seasons or so she always insisted she wanted Sam to be strong, independent and not "the girl" and not "Jack's girl" and not to be seen as "pining away for Jack". Well as far as I can see from the last several interviews, and in what has appeared on some of the DVD commentaries for Season 7, we have quotes from Ms. Tapping basically confirming that Sam has held feelings for Jack that she (Sam) has now admitted to herself so she needs to "move on" and that she has given up on "unrequited love". This is soooo very contradictory to everything she has said in the past about the character it just makes me realize that they will pretty much say anything as long as it's what they think people want to hear and they seem willing to disregard what they have said in the past. They remind me of politicians that way and I have no patience for politicians either. Lastly, and I have said this in detail on this forum before, the strong, independent Sam was pretty much lost for me when she so readily accepted what I saw to be pete's disrespectful and dishonest behaviour. Also, it seems contradictory of the strong, independent woman Ms. Tapping wanted to portray Sam as being for her to just “accept” this guy pete even though he’s not necessarily the “great guy” she wants/wanted (can’t recall the exact quote but that was the gist of what I got out of it from one of her interviews earlier this summer (either Cult Times or Sci-Fi – I cannot recall). Anyway, this is just my opinion, agree, disagree but, please, don't hurt me!

**Anthro Girl** · 26 June 2004, 01:58 AM

I wonder if that article was meant to be "published" on 7/4, but it got added to the database a little early?

Re: "Boo-Foo"...given the limitations of print media, it is a little hard to tell if she said "boo-foo" or "boffo", but both are slang meaning roughly the equivalent of "excellent" or "cool".

**Madeleine** · 26 June 2004, 02:23 AM

Binkpmmc, I do understand where you're coming from, I've felt a lot of those things myself at times. But the situation might not be as bad as this article makes it seem.

First off, there's an acknowledgement from Brad Wright that people exist who are not S/J shippers, but quite the opposite. It's a nice change from some articles which talk about S/J as something 'everybody wants'. Perhaps TPTB are going to bear that in mind, as well as the fact that there are people who don't give a monkey either way, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the SF.

I disliked reading the last bit: too bad, shippers, Pete's back (turns and faces other way) but deep down Sam wants to be with Jack, (turns and faces original way) but she's given up on the idea of unrequited love and decided to live her life (I'm getting dizzy here) but never say never...

BUT - was all this one statement from Amanda? Were those the actual words she used, or did the interviewer paraphrase? Did she explain things in a lot more detail only for the comments she made to be pared and spliced into the piece we have above?

It's been pointed out to me by a friend that this piece looks as if it was written to support a particular viewpoint, and nothing wrong with that, but it's not really down to TPTB or Amanda, rather to the writer of the interview. It's not *necessarily* indicative of a further leaning towards increased shippiness in the show.

I always was impressed by Amanda's initial resistance to S/J or to making Sam wet & weedy. It *is* disappointing to read things nowadays that seem to say the opposite, but *whenever* I read quotes or interviews that I dislike or that annoy me, I try to think 'innocent until proven guilty'; they may have used tones and body language which altered the meaning of the words, and they might have been quoted out of context or edited until their original intent was gone.

ETA - Also, every now and again along comes an interview full of stuff about xxx, and people say 'Crikey, is xxx all that one ever talks about? Don't they think yyy matters?'. But maybe the *interviewer* was the one who asked seventeen questions about xxx and didn't let them even mention yyy. There's seldom any way to tell, so... well, in my little world it's possible to give the benefit of the doubt to all parties

**keshou** · 26 June 2004, 05:35 AM

Binkpmmc, I understand your misgivings. I have also been concerned that every other article seems to focus on 'ship and Sam's love life. The producers keep saying it's just a small thread in the show and yet it seems to be the focus of many of the interviews. Of course who knows what's being left on the editing floor. I have also been a non-shipper but at this point I'm just becoming sick of the whole thing.

HOWEVER, *this* particular article seems to be more a commentary on fandom than on the show itself. If every other interview is about Sam's love life I think that is more indicative of the interviewers' belief that this particular issue interests the "ardent" fans more than any reflection of the true direction of the show. I think we had a lot of "ship" in the last half of season 7 because they originally thought "Lost City" would be the finale for SG-1. Now all bets are off and I'm hopeful that there's still a lot of "sci" left in this scifi show.

This article comes across as one in which quotes are taken out of context and mashed into the areas of the article where the interviewer thinks they'd fit. AT's comments don't even make much sense. Sounds like she's very frustrated to me, maybe even with the interviewer, as she talks about O'Neill being lord god king boo-foo O'Neill --- what the heck does that mean?? This is one time you really need to know if AT was laughing when she said it or was serious.

I really feel for AT right now - I think she's taking a lot of things to heart and I'd advise her to pile all the pro and con letters (unopened) in a corner and stop worrying about it. Tell the interviewer you'll answer any questions they have, except about Sam's love life. There's a lot more to Sam than that. I think some of the focus on 'ship may die down a little as the season starts. There's an interesting storyline coming up for Sam/AT that has nothing to do with her love life and and I'm curious to see how it plays out.

**Slainte** · 26 June 2004, 06:41 AM

Binkpmmc, I'm with you on this one.

This article is consistant with TPTB inconsistancy over character development.

Why can't they make a choice concerning the characters onscreen romantic lives, or lack of, and stick with it? I can happily live with either choice, but I hate this ambiguity, this inconsistancy.

Why can't we expect carefully thought out characterizations that remain consistant over time.

Consistancy is not a bad word. It actually is respectful of the characters, the story and the fans.

Can you tell this is a hot button for me. I hate feeling like I'm being played to stir up controversy and ratings.

**Elfinwood** · 26 June 2004, 10:15 AM

Well, the tune must have changed regarding Atlantis, because I remember reading an earlier article revealing that two of the main characters were going to be attracted to each other.

As for Stargate, I feel that the romance angle has always been a part of the show. I'm not just talking S/J here. There have been other pairings. Although, for some reason, those are never brought up in the discussions and interviews. Perhaps because they have always been with a main character paired with a character who was obviously just there to move along a storyline. The main focus was always on the storyline, not the pairing. Now I'm starting to see a shift in direction with a solid storyline being secondary to the viewer seeing a characters romantic life (and I don't just mean Chimera or the S/J pairing). Seems to me that they have no one else to blame but themselves for the fan reaction and for the issue of romance versus noromo.

As for S/J, I have always enjoyed that angle. It keeps me coming back to the show for more. I am drawn to the characters and to the actors who put the faces on those two characters. I've always felt that the romance was done in such a way that it enticed viewers like myself, but never was meant to be the focus of the show. I've never seen "the googly eyes" that some fans have complained about or even "the pining" that AT has mentioned. If anything, AT's portrayal of Sam over the years has made me believe just the opposite. I have seen a woman who thinks "yeah, that would be nice, but this is what I do and who I am." In my opinion, their feelings for each other has never been, this season or any other season, the focus of the show.

If TPTB feel that the 'ship factor is so detrimental to their show/s, maybe they should try writing some great stories where showing a characters personal side does not always have to equate to a romantic relationship. Why not deal with Daniel's changed outlook since his ascension more fully? All we heard was that it changed him. How? Show us! Show us Sam struggling with a command role. But then we wouldn't have so much controversy, would we? Then again, maybe that is what they really want from all of us, after all.

**sgeureka** · 26 June 2004, 11:05 AM

binkpmmc, don't let such articles destroy what you still like about the show. I think Madeleine covered about every aspect of how some articles should not be taken too seriously. Not TPTB are writing the articles, other people do that. She [the interviewer and writer] probably enjoys shippiness and isn't aware how other people feel about that. I am certain that the same could happen to me if I had to write an article about a show whose online fandom I don't know.

Also, an article writer has to worry that readers understand whats/he is talking about. Would an article about wormhole theory or a deep analysis of the history the Ancients be published in TV guide? Or is it more likely that you would find such an article in a Cult magazine? This article didn't appear in a Stargate special or in a scifi magazine where the publishers know what their audience is. So what would the main topic of a Stargate article be so that anyone who doesn't know the show would read it ? - Most likely ship. Much to the dismay of fans who like other aspects of the show.

And, AT doesn't write for her character. If the script says the story goes like this when before it has still been ambiguous (and the writers/producers will already have discussed the pros and cons of developing an arc into a certain direction at this point), then AT can't change how she has interpreted the ambiguity up to this point. And she can't tell how her character's future will be because, as I've said, she doesn't write for her character. When AT comments on Carter's "relationship" to O'Neill (I really don't want to be in her position when all you seem to get asked is "When will you finally hop into bed with each other?"), she usually adds something like "but we can't because of our military ranks". So she tries to keep it open to the viewers instead of telling what's right and what's wrong. But she can't change series canon ("Grace").

With all that being said, I also didn't enjoy this article too much because it seems to force a certain perspective onto the reader. I am glad that TPTB know that not all fans like this or that, because, frankly, they don't have to listen to any fan and could just do what they want. I appreciate that they want to please as many fans as possible, since in the end I am also a big fan of the show.

**Roatbaum** · 26 June 2004, 11:25 AM

Whats the matter with the way things are now? Why do they have to have a 'relationship'? How could they care more for each other if they were having sex, or whatever it is that you all think they are lacking? What is it, exactly that they need to do to have this relationship?

**Anthro Girl** · 26 June 2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Kes

I'd advise her to pile all the pro and con letters (unopened) in a corner and stop worrying about it.

I agree. I think the entire crew should do the same. I've been quite shocked and somewhat dismayed with what some viewers interpret as 'ship, especially when it isn't obvious that the writers/actors/directors intended it.

From what I've seen, about the same number of people are for ship as opposed to it. Then there are people like myself who don't give a flying fig one way or the other as long as it's entertaining. This automatically puts the cast and crew in a "damed-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't" situation. If that's the case - and I suspect from that article that they know the score - then they should just forget the clamoring and just do what they want to do with the characters.

**David** · 26 June 2004, 01:47 PM

All very good points, binkpmmc, but lemme offer a suggestion. When Season Eight reaches your area, give yourself permission to watch the season premiere. For the most part it will set the tone for the rest of the year. Don't care to watch the developments you see? All the more power to you! But this year is going to see a lot of major changes. And don't forget Stargate Atlantis!

Take good care.

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