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    #61
    Originally posted by Easter Lily
    It is probably not so surprising that a episode invoking the Faustian myth could possibly have something of a western feel to it... In a way, both deal with corruption, anti-heroes and the awful price of immediate gain.
    So is Condemned... Unforgiven without the horses?... but have Stargate or puddlejumper will travel? Too much of a leap perhaps...

    So in the Pegasus galaxy, Faust is an oily magistrate of an advanced civilization and Mephistopheles, a wine sipping, delicacy chomping Wraith. Caught in between this bargain is our third villian... a convict and a desperado, better versed, in human psychology than Dr Heightmeyer. Stranger bedfellows we have yet to see. It would appear that Faust is the most recent in a long line of Faustian magistrates who for "the good of the Alesian people" have made it a practice to condemn criminals to a fate worse than death and that is to sell their souls (or their life force as is the case)... to the demons of the galaxy. But the demons are very hungry and there isn't much to go around so they turn up at almost the right moment to put more pressure. So who is the greater villian: the criminal condemned to die for killing 11, our resident Dr Faustus or the life-sucking Wraiths.
    In between sippings and chompings, our heroes tumble into the picture... and do they tumble... As usual, they tumble and blows the deal skyhigh. Down in the dumps... our heroes are engaged in struggle for survival... which is the stuff of more strange alliances. After more wheeling and dealing and the usual Rodney specials... the team, I gather, returns home.
    An occupational hazard of exploration (one with which we're accustomed to) one which begs the question: Are they heroes or villians also? Or were they merely hastening the inevitable? There are no easy answers.

    The moral of the story: Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. But who is the devil?

    Dang... I wanted those sandwiches... too

    That's a bit of a stretch. Anyway, I doubt the writer(s) of this episode had anything Faustian or even particularly literary on their minds when writing this one, because it really came across like a plot scrabbled up at the last minute, twisted and punched against all logic into script form and shot without any thoughtful rumination on whether it really held together in a believable way. If there's a moral to the story, it's that you ought to spend some time mulling over your plot ideas before thrusting them on the rest of the world.

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      #62
      Originally posted by ShadowMaat
      I thought the exposition of McKay's character was kinda funny, but it was also extremely odd.

      Am I wrong, or did the leader guy come in and immediately single out McKay for fixing the ship? How would HE know that McKay's a scientist? And how would he know all that stuff about his personality? And that he was lying about not being able to fix the ship? McKay's "I can't do this" seemed a lot more believeable that Shep's "Yeah, whatever" attitude relating the destruction of Atlantis. The mad scientist seemed to do a bit of it, too. So was it all just a way to waste time, or is there something more that we're going to learn later when the release of the prisoners comes back to bite them in the ass?

      Yep, just as I've said, Torrell's little speeches were weird as hell. I was wondering that too, how Torrell knew Rodney was the brainy one. If Torrell's supposed to be the new villain --and I sincerely hope not-- he needs some work. But I'm guessing the pink-haired wraith is the new baddie? I really think the whole thing was just a case of not letting this plot idea simmer long enough. I understand the writers are on a tight schedule, but this one definitely could have been more effective with a little more thought.

      The McKay/Sheppard interaction saved the ep for me. They're wonderful individually but scenes between them really light up the screen. They've still got the best chemistry on the show (friendshippy or otherwise). I get a kick out of the way Sheppard can pull Rodney more or less into line with just an admonishing, "Rodney..."
      They're lots of fun. I think they could save just about the lamest plot, which this one essentially was.

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        #63
        I liked that episode, however I don't know why the people on the island didn't just block off/bury the stargate to prevent the wraith darts coming through. I suppose that wouldn't really work in the long run, but it might divert the wraith's attention away from the island and towards the mainland.

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          #64
          From what the little werido not a criminal scientist guy said, I thought they would end with all the other criminals waiting for the Leader criminal to come through the gate and shooting him with their guns.

          I wonder what happened to that poor girl marin. She walked like she was wearing a really tight corset or something.

          Also, shooting down a PJ with those dodgy nerblewerfer wannabes is just plain wrong.

          Advice For The New Millenium: A watched torrent never downloads.

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            #65
            Is it just me or was that the 4400 Center where Weir was negociating? I'm assuming 4400 is filmed somewhat near Stargate because of the actor crossovers.
            I noticed that too, and I'm almost positive it was the same building used for the 4400 Center. We know Stargate is filmed in Vancouver, and I seem to recall reading that The 4400 is filmed there, too, so that would definitely explain it! I wonder what that building is in real life...

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              #66
              Do you think we'll see more of that prison scientist guy, or is he another who'll be brought back to Atlantis only to disappear forever?

              I wonder if he's some kind of idiot savant or if he used to be much more cohesive until an accident/deliberate attempt to scramble his brain. His head is always covered. Good way to hide a botched trepanning/lobotomy. Although if they DO show him again, it'll probably be something easy and un-messy like a form of autism or other mental impairment. Still, could be interesting. If they bother.

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                #67
                Shawn the Wraith is the new baddie!!!
                Rush rocks.

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                  #68
                  Well, not to be a wet bucket, but I was disappointed with the this episdoe. I expected more much more action and a little more tension between the team. I think the writers are having Dex integrate too well, way too soon, but I did enjoy his few seconds of ignoring Shep's orders.

                  I liked Dr. Weir off world. She showed herself to be a worthy adversary and great diplomat; she won't back down from anything.

                  Rodney was his usual likeable self.....Teyla, well there wasn't much to her role, was there?

                  The best part of the whole 42 minutes, was meeting a "cultured" Wraith. I was amazed to see a Wraith who enjoyed a fine wine and gourmet food. Nice change from "life force sucking". Hope he returns.

                  So far this season, Duet still ranks head and shoulders above the rest. But that's just my poor opinion.
                  On fighting:
                  Farrah: "A swordsman does not fear death, if he dies with honor."
                  Dr. Who: "Then he's an idiot."

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                    #69
                    I guess structural integrity is a minor concern for a ship that spends much of it's time travelling via stargate. Either that, or the explosive was supposed to be that non-radioactive fissible material.

                    I too was concerned about them not cloaking when flying to the island, but I guess since they saw no anti-air fire attacking the security ship, they assumed they were going to be safe.

                    I wondered why not just gate with the prisoners to a neutral world, then go their seperate ways afterwards, but I guess they didn't trust them even that much. While wise to send the prisioners to another planet, I wondered why they didn't gate to a neutral planet themselves and then to Atlantis. Being seen gating to a world whose only stargate should be destroyed is a pretty big clue that something's up. Perhaps three or four intermediate planets would be a better plan, that way they give the illusion of being on the move, as well as protect the existence of Atlantis.

                    My issues out of the way now, this was a very entertaining episode. For me, SG-1 and Atlantis sort of compliment each other now. SG-1 provides some decent philisophical ideas with this somewhat different "just what is a god?" theme of the Ori, while Atlantis has the various aspects of us vs. advanced enemy. This episode, while not groundbreaking storytelling, adds layers to elements already in the show. Weir was the strong negotiator, Shep the military leader who's just a little out of place in this intergalactic universe that until last year he didn't know existed, McKay was McKay. Ronan's "is that an order?" scene spoke volumes about his character, both as an individual and as military. He's definately confident and self-sufficient, but he's fiercely loyal and a soldier in any situation. The Wraith renewed some creepiness with this episode, but I would have liked to have heard that Wraith with a name. He'd make a great individual baddy for us for focus on an worry about (he could be the Wraith's Apophis), but without a name or something really identifiable, he won't really be all that memorable past this episode. Wraith cruisers are quite ominous when approaching stranded SG teams.

                    Though no one theme is individually special in and of itself, this episode brought the various elements together pretty well.
                    Cogito ergo dubito.

                    "How happy are the astrologers if they tell one truth to a hundred lies, while other people lose all credibility if they tell one lie to a hundred truths." - Francesco Guicciardini

                    An escalator can never be broken, it can only become stairs. You never see "Escalator temporarily out of service." It's "Escalator temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg

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                      #70
                      I may have liked this episode if I could have gotten past the incredulous leap I had to take in believing that Shep would be taken by already proven hostile criminals without a fight. How would Shep know that the criminals wouldn't shoot them right then? What reasons would he have to trust the criminals with his teams' life? I just kept saying, "Stupid. Stupid." But, of course, if they weren't captured then the story would have ended.

                      I agree that letting criminals go was unwise. Shep should have let Ronan take care of business. Ronan seems like the only person that is willing to take names and ask questions later. I want to see more of Ronan.

                      Token ~

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                        #71
                        Originally posted by PsychoPenguin
                        While watching the scene where Ronon is trying to break his bonds, he says, "Okay, when you've got a guy as tall as Ronon sitting next to you, here's what you do." He then goes on to describe how Ronon could have kicked the pole Sheppard was tied to and enabled him to slide his bonds off it, then free the others. Very, very cool!
                        Well, I have learned the theory about that particular trick from a novel. So: read a lot of books before going offplanet! And before exploring Ancienr's ruins (I've seen Cameron's puzzle from Avalon in a novel, too...)

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                          #72
                          Really good episode, loved it. McKay-"what am I McGyver?"...Loved that.
                          Ronan has really grown on me more, he is funny. (Ronan goes over to McKay with his knife to cut his rope next to his belly) McKay-"watch it" Ronan-"suck it in".... soooo funny. And was it just me or did McKay look extra good this episode. (yes I like McKay, I admit. ) Anyway, the Wraith was very creepy as usual, and I thought I saw pink tints to it's hair, or was that just me? Weir was great in this episode too, you can see how much of a boss lady she is, she definately has the respect of all her people, or most of them anyways. Altogether a really great episode.

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                            #73
                            I was disappointed by this episode, for the reasons mentioned. The Jumper being brought down wasn't realistic (and usually I am the last one to say that because I'm of the kind that you suspend belief and enjoy a show for what it is, but this was so far from the realm of realism that it just spoiled the plot). Second of all, where was the effort to come up with a plan when captures? All Shep did was sit there, McKay got singled out, and his captor was able to give a run-down pyschological summary of his character despite not KNOWING him at all. There was no sense of danger here, despite the plot indicating there SHOULD be. It just felt flat. Weir started off suspcious and threatening, without any reason to, from the get-go. It was just off all through out.

                            With that said, there were some good points. The team banter was good, I do like Dex, and find I like him way more than Ford. Shep breaking the stick (aka not breaking it) was funny.

                            But, I have to ask, would that wraith cruiser have fired those ballistics at humans running to the gate? The point of that would be - ? And, even assuming they WOULD, how could they POSSIBLY miss to that degree?

                            I've been about 40% like with this season so far, 60% disappointed. I've been enjoying SG-1 a lot more this season. I really hope that the stories to come are better written, more engaging, and make better use of the characters.
                            sigpic

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                              #74
                              As others have already mentioned there are some fairly big plot holes in this one. It was pretty funny because my 10 year old nephew is over this morning and he loves this stuff so I put it on for him and I just about laughed myself silly when he starts yelling at the t.v. for Sheppard to cloak the puddlejumper when he's flying over the island to get back to the gate because it's pretty much exactly what I was thinking to myself when I watched it last night. If a 10 year old can figure out that it might be a good idea to cloak your ship when flying over an island full of criminals who have already been proven...inhospitable then I would think a military man would think so also. Granted, they had no idea that the prisoners had any kind of weapons that could reach them in the air but better safe than sorry I would think. Of course if they always did the smart thing then we wouldn't have a 42 minute episode but sometimes the leaps in logic required are a bit much.

                              It was, is, and always will be GREEN

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                                #75
                                Originally posted by Lida
                                Well, not to be a wet bucket, but I was disappointed with the this episdoe. I expected more much more action and a little more tension between the team. I think the writers are having Dex integrate too well, way too soon, but I did enjoy his few seconds of ignoring Shep's orders.
                                I seem to have liked the episode better than you did, but you have a good point about Dex. It might have been better to have him a bit of a wild card for the first few episodes and slowly integrate into the team. I love his long coat!

                                .....Teyla, well there wasn't much to her role, was there?
                                Teyla only seems to be there to swing sticks and beat up on folks. We've gone way too long with nothing going on with this character other than a hot bod. I really don't pay attention to what she does or says anymore as she really contributes nothing to the stories. This season's "Ford" it seems.

                                The best part of the whole 42 minutes, was meeting a "cultured" Wraith. I was amazed to see a Wraith who enjoyed a fine wine and gourmet food. Nice change from "life force sucking". Hope he returns.
                                I'd like to see this Wraith again (recurring perhaps - SGA's Apophis?). We did need to hear a name for him, however, we have not discovered whether the Wraith have names or not. So far Sheppard is the only person who has given out names (Steve and Bob).



                                When all else fails, change channels.

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