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Thread: stargate symbols

  1. #1

    Earth Symbol stargate symbols

    I just wanted to see if someone knew if it ever came up:
    the stargate symbols are based on constellations(such as Orion's belt etc.)
    so would it not be realy weird thath these constalations would not differ from planet to planet, face it if you'r on the other side of the galaxy you'r not likely to see anything symilar so that would mean that:
    1. the Ancients were so arogant to impose their view of the galaxy to every other planet (they could have made a diferent system for locating a point in space)
    2. they started (verry naive) by building gates between earth and abydos (wich is verry close to eachother) and then discovered it was a bit silly to keep using their own constalations but they stuck with it (even it seems in the pegasus galaxy where it's completely imposible to even locate anything with coordinates in the "earth" galaxy? like using lines drawn between cordinates in europe to pinpoint some spot in the US...)
    3. it proves without a doubt that the stargates were atleast build on earth origionally (or somware verry close to it)
    4. they must be using the same symbols everywere though since SG1 never has anny problem dialing home... (if you would use new symbols for every planet then you'd need a verry nice computer model with you to recalculate the symbols)
    5. besides the other major probems ther is this one, we know the Ancients lived in atlantis last between 5 and 10 milion years ago or something like that..
      at thath time the night sky would look quite diferent! they had to turn back time using a computer model to find out what the pipes coming out of pyramids were pointing at(there are shafts inside the great pyramids thath used to point at a star or constalation (please not this is not fiction this is real)).

    so a real canandrum here how come stargates are identical, how come they use today's constalations and how come they use the same symbols all over the universe?
    anyone?

    ps. there are 39 symbols on the stargate
    so in our galaxy thath means an adress space of 38*37*36*35*34*33 = 1.9*10^9 (not counting PoO again as it's more like a end of line character)
    or in the universe 38*37*36*35*34*33*32 = 63.6*10^9
    [edit updated with the corect calculation(I hope)]
    if you want to look ath the symbols of the stargate and some adresses http://rdanderson.com/stargate/glyphs/glyphs.htm
    Last edited by robinmdh; July 7th, 2005 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Hey, welcome to the forum!

    About the Stargate symbols being constellations. In the movie, they were based on constellations, to help Daniel decipher the Stargate, he realised what the symbols were on the cartouche when he saw the constellation in the newspaper and also saw it on the cartouche he ralise what the Stargate was used for.

    Remeber, in the movie there were supposedly only two Stargates, as well on both the symbols were all diffrent, assumably because the symbols on the Abydos Gate were based on constellations seen from Abydos. However, throughout the series, this point was not mentioned, except in the season eight finale "Moebius." The characters mentioning it were from an alternate universe, and had no prior knowledge of the gate, so perhaps, the symbols only appear as constellations, and are often confused for constellations because of their appeearance, but actaully are not. We do know from "Lost City" that the symbols can form words, Proclarush Taonas.

    As well, the figures that you are using to represent the number of gates in the universe are incorrect. We don't know just how many galaxies the Ancient put Stargates in. The equation (38X37X36X35X34X33)-(38X6) acuratley represents the number of possible Stargates per galaxy, using the 38 symbol and 1 point of origin Stargate. The amount of possible Stargates in the universe can only be known if we are given the knowledge of how many galaxies have gate networks and the specifications of the Stargates.

    Owen Macri

  3. #3

    Re: stargate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    Hey, welcome to the forum!

    About the Stargate symbols being constellations. In the movie, they were based on constellations, to help Daniel decipher the Stargate, he realised what the symbols were on the cartouche when he saw the constellation in the newspaper and also saw it on the cartouche he ralise what the Stargate was used for.

    Remeber, in the movie there were supposedly only two Stargates, as well on both the symbols were all diffrent, assumably because the symbols on the Abydos Gate were based on constellations seen from Abydos. However, throughout the series, this point was not mentioned, except in the season eight finale "Moebius." The characters mentioning it were from an alternate universe, and had no prior knowledge of the gate, so perhaps, the symbols only appear as constellations, and are often confused for constellations because of their appeearance, but actaully are not. We do know from "Lost City" that the symbols can form words, Proclarush Taonas.

    As well, the figures that you are using to represent the number of gates in the universe are incorrect. We don't know just how many galaxies the Ancient put Stargates in. The equation (38X37X36X35X34X33)-(38X6) acuratley represents the number of possible Stargates per galaxy, using the 38 symbol and 1 point of origin Stargate. The amount of possible Stargates in the universe can only be known if we are given the knowledge of how many galaxies have gate networks and the specifications of the Stargates.

    Owen Macri
    very well said! ill just add my theory as to the relationship between the constelations and symbols for fun.

    It is my belief that the reason the symbols on the gate match the constelations as seen from earth is because the symbols on the gate inspired the constelations. to ancient man under goa'uld rule the gate would have been an object of fear and worship so the symbols would take on special signifigance. ancient man attributed the symbols to the "gods" and then drew them in the sky using the stars to share them with other humans that hadnt seen the gate.

    the real reason is because like you said, the constelations work as mapping points for travel when there are only two gates and the symbols are different on each gate, but even that is questionable. to make the show premise feasable it was neccasary to make all the gates have the same symbols. they have really just kind of glossed over the whole question of what exactly the symbols represent in the show. there have been several times where carter has said that she can map a planets location based on its address so that implies that they have figured it out, but they have never said how they did it. they could have simply used trial and error and deduced the answer with the computers help. they dial a planet, look at its stars and calculate their position and then repeat that a few hundred times and the computer could probably determine where each point in space each symbol represents is.

    also as for the idea that the symbols being the constelations meaning that the ancients were from earth and the gate system originated on earth, remember that the gate system is at least 50 million years old ("Frozen") and is likely much older. the stars did not exist in their current configuration so the constelations as we know them now wouldnt have existed.

  4. #4
    Airman SavageAncient's Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Originally Posted by spg_1983
    also as for the idea that the symbols being the constelations meaning that the ancients were from earth and the gate system originated on earth, remember that the gate system is at least 50 million years old ("Frozen") and is likely much older. the stars did not exist in their current configuration so the constelations as we know them now wouldnt have existed.
    50 million years in the life of a star is nothing, the same constellations we use now would still have been there 50 million years ago, I think.

    Originally Posted by robinmdh
    they must be using the same symbols everywere though since SG1 never has anny problem dialing home... (if you would use new symbols for every planet then you'd need a verry nice computer model with you to recalculate the symbols)
    yes, all the gates have the same symbols bar 1, each gate has a unique symbol indicating the point of origin. Best noticed in the "Gamekeeper" where the DHD has this thwirly symbol on it also seen in the dome complex on the doors.
    http://www.stargatewars.com/recruit....d=ap1118527754

    Daniel...go to your happy place! -Jack

  5. #5

    Re: stargate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageAncient
    50 million years in the life of a star is nothing, the same constellations we use now would still have been there 50 million years ago, I think.
    the stars themselves would have existed, but they would not have been in the same positions they are now and the particular arangement as seen from the sky from earth would have been very different. its called stellar drift. thats why they had to calculate for stellar drift early on in the series because we had no DHD to recieve correlative updates and the address we got from the cartouche were no longer valid. if the stars could drift enough to make the gate address null after just a few thousand years, imagine how much they have moved over 50 million years or more.

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    That is an incredible theory, you deffinetly deserve reputation for that! It is a good idea, we know that ancient humans derived some constelations from figures of popular myths, so why not symbols on a sacred "magic" device as well.

    I would also like to say, it is very nice to agree on something with you, it seems everytime we meet in post, it seems to be in an argument, I much preffer this.

    Owen Macri

  7. #7

    Default Re: stargate symbols

    thanks for the feedback!
    but i still feel that the adress system as used in the movie is not realy feasible as there are places you can't dial to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    Hey, welcome to the forum!

    About the Stargate symbols being constellations. In the movie, they were based on constellations, to help Daniel decipher the Stargate, he realised what the symbols were on the cartouche when he saw the constellation in the newspaper and also saw it on the cartouche he ralise what the Stargate was used for.

    Remeber, in the movie there were supposedly only two Stargates, as well on both the symbols were all diffrent, assumably because the symbols on the Abydos Gate were based on constellations seen from Abydos. However, throughout the series, this point was not mentioned, except in the season eight finale "Moebius." The characters mentioning it were from an alternate universe, and had no prior knowledge of the gate, so perhaps, the symbols only appear as constellations, and are often confused for constellations because of their appeearance, but actaully are not. We do know from "Lost City" that the symbols can form words, Proclarush Taonas.

    As well, the figures that you are using to represent the number of gates in the universe are incorrect. We don't know just how many galaxies the Ancient put Stargates in. The equation (38X37X36X35X34X33)-(38X6) acuratley represents the number of possible Stargates per galaxy, using the 38 symbol and 1 point of origin Stargate. The amount of possible Stargates in the universe can only be known if we are given the knowledge of how many galaxies have gate networks and the specifications of the Stargates.

    Owen Macri
    as for your math you'r right ofcourse (38X37X36X35X34X33) but -(38X6) ? i was just doing a quick check on the adress space not realizing thath it's verry imposeble for the same symbol to be used twice

    as for the glyphs being constalations it's still quite imposeble for them to be constalations as they are soo old as said further in this thread and in my origionall post.

    Quote Originally Posted by spg_1983
    It is my belief that the reason the symbols on the gate match the constelations as seen from earth is because the symbols on the gate inspired the constelations. to ancient man under goa'uld rule the gate would have been an object of fear and worship so the symbols would take on special signifigance. ancient man attributed the symbols to the "gods" and then drew them in the sky using the stars to share them with other humans that hadnt seen the gate.
    still a small problem with pretty big stellar drift you'r underestimating that!
    but I like it more than anny other theory!


    as for constalations ... they leave another spot open .. how to dial a planet on the rim of the galaxy

    if I were to make a navigation system for an essentialy flat round disk i would use degrees over the disk degrees up or down (out of the plane of the galaxy and a distance mesurement) or something like thath but thath's just me

    perhaps it was an Ancient language I mean they were likely to have more than one language before they united as one race with one language that would explain the gate sybols forming words.
    Last edited by robinmdh; July 7th, 2005 at 02:50 AM.

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    You are right there are places to which you cannot dial, however you do not need to dial to every location, so when a gate is moved to a location that is not accesable, presumably, with the coorelative update, the gate could also re arange the points so all gates would be acessable once again.

    The -(38X6) is to elimate the duplicate use of symbols. You are right, you could not dial the same symbol twice because then you would technically only be dialing five points in space because you would be dialing the same spot twice.

    Nice picture, did you make it?

    Owen Macri

  9. #9

    Default Re: stargate symbols

    i mean there are no stars to make constalations of outside our galaxy so you can't dial to the rim becouse your navigation system uses a reference outside were you want to go.. the referen's can't be anny good to you unless you'r in the middle of the reference point it's like trying to measure the voltage of a lightning strike with a volt meter that goes to 200 volt it just isn't in the right ball park more like wrong continent actualy
    (unless you have a distance measurement then you can triangulate but thath's not aplicable)
    so you'd need reference points outside ou galaxy in order to be able to draw three lines trough a point in our galaxy (i beleve other galaxyes are quite a bit harder to spot than stars let alone constalations of them they are way to dim to make out)

    the 38*6 makes no impact on the number so i'm still lost as to why you put it in
    and how does it work for the order of the symbols to me it seams it would not matter anny bit aslong as you end with PoO
    except perhaps when dialing to a diferent galaxy?

    nah i googled our position in the galaxy (for pictures)
    but thanks

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Well, the points aren't, or, don't have to be stars, they can be anywhere.

    No, you don't have to be equal distance from all of the points, I have included a picture.



    Owen Macri

  11. #11
    Chief Master Sergeant Quakerbone's Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    I always thought that the gate symbols did not actually MEAN that they were constellations, but rather like old Nordic glyphs. The Norse could use glyphs and runes as numbers, letters, and even whole ideas. I assumed that the symbols were based on constellations, but referred to numerical values or coordinates. In the same way, they can be used as letters or written symbols- hence, "Proclarush Taonas" (Macri)

    As for the coordinate system, I also thought that each of the 38 symbols referred to a planar designation; depending on the order of the symbols, it could refer to a 3-dimensional angled plane bisecting the galaxy:

    All the planes combine to create a six-sided space, rather than a specific point. The dialing Gate then activates any primary gate inside the space. This explains how a space-based Gate can be dialed, and seems to fit a little better than using a single point to find an unspecific object.

    Just some theories.
    Jack: I can't remember much, but I have these visions- A large man, with short sleeves and blue pants...

    I think his name is...Homer, and he's very important to me...

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Well, my theory was that the gate could use the six symbols to identify a specific area, basically, just the orbit of the planet, I will help demonstrate, with a picture, but give me a minute.

    Owen Macri

  13. #13
    Chief Master Sergeant Quakerbone's Avatar
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    DHD Re: stargate symbols

    Then how would that account for dialing out to deep space? Even the orbit of a planet, such as Earth, would only be available for a few weeks in a year as it revolves around the sun. My idea is that each individual space could be several light-years across in each direction.

    Some more things:

    The main reason I can see for the PoO symbol is to signal a stop for the dialing sequence- Let's say you are dialing another galaxy (Atlantis), and using the same coordinates as the dialing gate (Earth), at least for the first 6. Without a final, constant symbol to signal the end of the sequence, the gate would simply shut down without being able to select a seventh symbol. The best way to explain the PoO is simply to end the coordinate set.

    For my theory, I can explain the seventh symbol for intergalactic dialing by going further out into deep space for an extra dividing plane.

    (Really wish I had some fancy graphics to model this stuff)
    Last edited by Quakerbone; July 7th, 2005 at 05:47 PM.
    Jack: I can't remember much, but I have these visions- A large man, with short sleeves and blue pants...

    I think his name is...Homer, and he's very important to me...

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols



    Ok, I put together a picture.

    The black cricle within the light blue region, is the planet with the pimary Stargate. The star is in the middle, it is yellow. The red circle is the planet with the secondardy Stargate.

    The regions that engulf the two planets are just the paths of the planets. The Stargate would search these areas for a Stargate.

    First the six symbols would be identified, they would meet in the middle, in the centre of the solar system, information about the planets' orbit would tell the Stargate that its' outermost searching limit was this far away from the point in a circular, or eliptical shape, then information about the planet, such as its' diameter and size specifications, would tell the Stargate how far in, up and down it can search, I know there is no up and down in space, hopefully you know what I am talking about. These specifications would allow for an imaginary tubular region to be "created" the Stargate would search this region for another gate, if it is not thier, then the gate has either been burried, destroyed, removed, the planet has or is in the process of falling into the star, or it is on a trajectory leading away from the star.

    This would allow more than one gate to be used in the same system, because the diffrence between two or all of the tubular regions in a system might as well be the length of the universe, the Stargate will never search beyond its' specified borders, so it would not interfere with planets closer to the star, or farther away.

    Owen Macri

  15. #15
    Airman SavageAncient's Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    How do you explain dialing another galaxy using only points in the milky way? it's been bugging me since I saw the episode. the show explains the extra chevron as an additional distance calculator...but if all the points are in OUR galaxy, where does the gate get the coordinates for the stargate in the other galaxy?
    http://www.stargatewars.com/recruit....d=ap1118527754

    Daniel...go to your happy place! -Jack

  16. #16
    Probie unfinishedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri


    Ok, I put together a picture.

    The black cricle within the light blue region, is the planet with the pimary Stargate. The star is in the middle, it is yellow. The red circle is the planet with the secondardy Stargate.

    The regions that engulf the two planets are just the paths of the planets. The Stargate would search these areas for a Stargate.

    First the six symbols would be identified, they would meet in the middle, in the centre of the solar system, information about the planets' orbit would tell the Stargate that its' outermost searching limit was this far away from the point in a circular, or eliptical shape, then information about the planet, such as its' diameter and size specifications, would tell the Stargate how far in, up and down it can search, I know there is no up and down in space, hopefully you know what I am talking about. These specifications would allow for an imaginary tubular region to be "created" the Stargate would search this region for another gate, if it is not thier, then the gate has either been burried, destroyed, removed, the planet has or is in the process of falling into the star, or it is on a trajectory leading away from the star.

    This would allow more than one gate to be used in the same system, because the diffrence between two or all of the tubular regions in a system might as well be the length of the universe, the Stargate will never search beyond its' specified borders, so it would not interfere with planets closer to the star, or farther away.

    Owen Macri
    Just wanted to say this is the best thread I've read so far, good posts to everybody. Anyway, does your post indicate that a dialing gate will only connect to a gate within the prescribed tube? If so how does Carter dial the blackhole planet when she blows up a sun. I'm not sure if that gate was WAY off orbit but the planet was destroyed. It had more than likely been pulled more than a little off orbit. Mabye it searches the cubic area prescribed by the symbols. However in reference to the actual area within in the address, if the symbols are constellations that would be a huge area of space. while our galaxy is an almost endless space itself (compared to earth anyway) the distance between constellations is enormous. It seems unlikely that only one star gate is present in every dialable combination. However, I'm not sure if they say for certain in any of the stargate mythos if all of the symbols match constellations or just a few, it seems assumed, even by the charectors in the show. Mabye its that during the milions of years the stars and stargates have existed these combinations of stars would have existed in other area's or seen by others in the sky with different stars later on in history after consequential drift. Since the Stargate network goes through correlative uppdates every so often to account for stellar drift perhaps the actual constllations are merely symbolic and not literal. On the other hand they use the constellations to pinpoint actual planets in space like Teonas in Lost City, so honestly who knows, but i just thought I would share some thoughts on the subject. Again great thread.

  17. #17
    Probie unfinishedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri


    Ok, I put together a picture.

    The black cricle within the light blue region, is the planet with the pimary Stargate. The star is in the middle, it is yellow. The red circle is the planet with the secondardy Stargate.

    The regions that engulf the two planets are just the paths of the planets. The Stargate would search these areas for a Stargate.

    First the six symbols would be identified, they would meet in the middle, in the centre of the solar system, information about the planets' orbit would tell the Stargate that its' outermost searching limit was this far away from the point in a circular, or eliptical shape, then information about the planet, such as its' diameter and size specifications, would tell the Stargate how far in, up and down it can search, I know there is no up and down in space, hopefully you know what I am talking about. These specifications would allow for an imaginary tubular region to be "created" the Stargate would search this region for another gate, if it is not thier, then the gate has either been burried, destroyed, removed, the planet has or is in the process of falling into the star, or it is on a trajectory leading away from the star.

    This would allow more than one gate to be used in the same system, because the diffrence between two or all of the tubular regions in a system might as well be the length of the universe, the Stargate will never search beyond its' specified borders, so it would not interfere with planets closer to the star, or farther away.

    Owen Macri
    Just wanted to say this is the best thread I've read so far, good posts to everybody. Anyway, does your post indicate that a dialing gate will only connect to a gate within the prescribed tube? If so how does Carter dial the blackhole planet when she blows up a sun. I'm not sure if that gate was WAY off orbit but the planet was destroyed. It had more than likely been pulled more than a little off orbit. Mabye it searches the cubic area prescribed by the symbols. However in reference to the actual area within in the address, if the symbols are constellations that would be a huge area of space. while our galaxy is an almost endless space itself (compared to earth anyway) the distance between constellations is enormous. It seems unlikely that only one star gate is present in every dialable combination. However, I'm not sure if they say for certain in any of the stargate mythos if all of the symbols match constellations or just a few, it seems assumed, even by the charectors in the show. Mabye its that during the milions of years the stars and stargates have existed these combinations of stars would have existed in other area's or seen by others in the sky with different stars later on in history after consequential drift. Since the Stargate network goes through correlative uppdates every so often to account for stellar drift perhaps the actual constllations are merely symbolic and not literal. On the other hand they use the constellations to pinpoint actual planets in space like Teonas in Lost City, so honestly who knows, but i just thought I would share some thoughts on the subject. Again great thread.

  18. #18
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Cool Re: stargate symbols

    Hey Owen... it looks like you took my cube idea and shrunk it down to a single star system... It would never work for the entire gate network that way though. http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....94&postcount=8

    The above link takes you back to my original drawing where we've discussed it before. (I added the pic here, just in case the link doesn't work...)

    As to the symbols themselves; In the movie they were in fact star constellations, and the symbols on each gate were unique. On the show... all the symbols except for the Point of Origin became the same. There was a serious shift in the gate network's dynamics. In the movie, the gate only went to one known place, so it was easy to say... oh, well each gate has it's own symbols pertaining to the specific planet it is on. However that doesn't work for the TV show, with litterally thousands of worlds each having a gate. So the show had to make the gate methodology more coherent. Meaning, the address to Earth from any planet would be the same regardless of what planet you were on, with the only exception being the PoO. This allowed for a single person to be able to travel to many different worlds using the same exact addresses (minus the PoO, again... ) to get to any other world, regardless of what planet they were on.

    We also found that the symbols represented actual points in space, meaning that a sufficiently advanced civilization could use a stargate address to locate a specific area in space. (Just like they used the address to Atlantis to navigate the Prometheus/Dadealus to Pegasus and the Lantia system, where Atlantis is located) I personally think my 'cubed multi-clock' methodology serves the gate network well, given what we know of it, but of course, depending on any new info, it would be subject to change.

    Actually, that entire thread I mentioned above is almost the exact same topic as this one, so I don't feel compelled to repeat my arguments there, here. I can just say... go read that other thread. Anywho...

    Synopsis of stargate symbols (very brief)

    They represent specific points in space
    They represent sounds (to be used as a phonetic system of planetary identification)
    Over many thousands of years, the symbols themselves don't change, but a given address does because of Stellar drift. This also means that a planets name will only be valid for so long. After several thousand years, the name of Proclarush Taonus (or whatever) won't be valid as far as its specific location within the stargate network is concerned. Some of the symbols will have changed altering the planets (or the gate itself, perhaps) name to something else... possibly something nonsensical.

    'Nuff for now.

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  19. #19

    Default Re: stargate symbols

    i dun think that the stargates bother checking only in the planets orbit cuz it would change, the stargarte PoOs are probably the whole solar system, or else many things wouldnt make sense (such as when sam blew up the star) i agree with the idea that the symbols just look like constallations and are actually not

    hey maybe Ra outfitted the Abidos gate with custom symbols cuz he wanted to be like "my gate has custom symbols im cool"

  20. #20
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: stargate symbols

    I would say, that for each galaxy there are diffrent points, so even though the symbols on the gates may look the same, they represent diffrent points in space, and the Stargate knows that you are dialing the same points in a diffrent galaxy when the distance modifier or eigth chevron is added.

    Owen Macri

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